Greenville Transit

[maninthepark]

There is an abandoned rail line (removed) that passes between McBee Station and Northampton Wines. The tracks used to cross over Broad Street on their way behind the Peace Center.

Skyliner, WYFF said the first phase of this would run from ICAR to E. Washington St.

and Laurens Rd. This is where the old rail line is cut.They did not say how you would get

downtown from there.

[jarvismj]

Well, I can see this, but what I'm afraid of, is that once they get this, will they later evolve to Light Rail?

Anyways, check out these pictures of a system in France, that looks like it would work better in Greenville than anything that I've seen. What gets me, is that in this system, the tunnels are bored, but they're bigger tunnels, meaning that two tracks can run through them. Anyways, without further delay, the pictures, from nycsubway.org;

Opinions anyone?

[gs3]

Wow! This is great! All the good announcements happen when I'm away on trips.

I like what Butch Kirven said: "Now, it's not going to happen immediately. But we have the central infrastructure in place to develop." Greenville is definitely planning an acting on those plans.

I still don't understand if this rides on some sort of rail? Obviously it will have it's own right-of-way, like a busway, but will that right-of -way be paved or not?

I think with Greenville having CU-ICAR and being an automotive hub, it would be a major plus for Greenville to introduce or prototype a "new age" type of rapid transit system. A partnership between CU-ICAR and the city perhaps. Let the transit system be more than just a transit system.....let it be part of the growth, learning, technology cluster that is CU-ICAR.

[goodbye]

I think a maglev train would be the most awesome thing for Greenville eventually. It uses an electromagnetic force to levitate and propel the cars along the track. It rides very smooth as well.

[jarvismj]

As nice as Maglev is, it's way too cost prohibitive to do something like that. Just from what I've read, it would be cheaper to build a heavy rail system per mile than Maglev. Plus, Maglev takes HUGE amounts of electricity, something that I don't think Greenville has the infastructure for.

The system is for BRT, and it looks like in the picture that they want to create a nice guideway for it. I've used the Silver Line between Logan Airport and South Station, and the bus runs faster on the city streets than it does in the tunnels, with a speed limit of anywhere between 6-15 mph.

The best thing about this is that Greenville County is acknowledging there is a need, and that is the first step.

[goodbye]

As nice as Maglev is, it's way too cost prohibitive to do something like that. Just from what I've read, it would be cheaper to build a heavy rail system per mile than Maglev. Plus, Maglev takes HUGE amounts of electricity, something that I don't think Greenville has the infastructure for.

The system is for BRT, and it looks like in the picture that they want to create a nice guideway for it. I've used the Silver Line between Logan Airport and South Station, and the bus runs faster on the city streets than it does in the tunnels, with a speed limit of anywhere between 6-15 mph.

The best thing about this is that Greenville County is acknowledging there is a need, and that is the first step.

All of your points are very true. I added the maglev idea after it was mentioned that Greenville could use a "new age" system, although I know it is not going to happen here anytime soon - if ever. This bus system will help do what nothing else can do at this point; provide a relatively fast and safe alternative to the traffic between I-85/CU-ICAR/Millennium Campus/Verdae and Downtown. It is definitely a huge step in the right direction.

[gs3]

IMO the "bullet bus" being proposed is a very "new age" system. What I would like to see (and this deals more with marketing opportunities of the transit than the actual transit system itself)......a collaboration between CU-ICAR and the city on this transit project would be a great partnership as CU-ICAR is ALL about transportation. Just seems like there could be a way in this to get national attention, promote CU-ICAR and benefit the transit needs of the city. Just thinking here.......

[Greenville]

IMO the "bullet bus" being proposed is a very "new age" system. What I would like to see (and this deals more with marketing opportunities of the transit than the actual transit system itself)......a collaboration between CU-ICAR and the city on this transit project would be a great partnership as CU-ICAR is ALL about transportation. Just seems like there could be a way in this to get national attention, promote CU-ICAR and benefit the transit needs of the city. Just thinking here.......

I agree. And if they stick with their plan to get this up and running within the next few years, we will (at the very least) set the standard for the state with regard to public transportation. And you know that if this is successful - and I predict it will be - it won't be long until we see other lines with stops at other places of interest (e.g., GSP Int'l, Woodruff, Haywood, Expo Center).

[linkerjpatrick]

Anyone remember the "Big Bus"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Big_Bus

[g-man430]

BRT plan for Greenville metro area: http://greenvilleplanning.com/transportati...RAFT_070201.pdf

GTA to expand to Greer for at least one month: http://greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/...EWS01/703140436

News video from WYFF on the proposed BRT system: http://www.wyff4.com/video/11245938/index.html

Edited March 14, 2007 by g-man430

[goodbye]

Skyliner, WYFF said the first phase of this would run from ICAR to E. Washington St.

and Laurens Rd. This is where the old rail line is cut.They did not say how you would get

downtown from there.

It appears that I was right and that a downtown station may be built on Broad Street. I wonder if it will be located on the vacant property across from Northampton Wines? That would be a great spot. I also noticed yesterday that there is a new Cely Construction sign up at the south end of the Church Street bridge, directly above this vacant piece of property. Perhaps we'll hear more about this very soon...

[g-man430]

They didn't spend the money to build that new bridge over Woodruff Road and stick in those new railroad crossings for nothing.

Another pdf file for proposed BRT system for Greenville metro area: http://www.greenvilleplanning.com/transpor...0compressed.pps

-Go back to page 28 of this thread for link to other pdf file.

It appears that I was right and that a downtown station may be built on Broad Street. I wonder if it will be located on the vacant property across from Northampton Wines? That would be a great spot. I also noticed yesterday that there is a new Cely Construction sign up at the south end of the Church Street bridge, directly above this vacant piece of property. Perhaps we'll hear more about this very soon...

What is Cely Construction building there? Anybody know? I guess I could contact them and ask.

Edited March 15, 2007 by Spartan

[Spartan]

There is an abandoned rail line (removed) that passes between McBee Station and Northampton Wines. The tracks used to cross over Broad Street on their way behind the Peace Center.

Indeed. Ever wonder where McBee Station got its name? There is still a railbed visible on Broad St below McBee Station, which was my one complaint about that development... they messed up the chance to ever use that for rail again. But ultimately thats ok. While BRT should be grade separated, it doesn't have to be. It could easily get a dedicated lane on Washington St and ride straight to the transit center.

I think the bus is made to ride on the train tracks (or without much alteration to the tracks). Nowhere does it suggest that it needs to be on pavement.

No, BRT is specifically designed to NOT have rail, otherwise it would be LRT Tracks are the most expensive part of constructing a rail system, so BRT cuts that part out by using wheels and concrete/asphalt instead.

The whole point of BRT is that its kinda like LRT (canternaries and all), but at something like 1/3 the cost. Its still mass transit, and it serves essentially the same purpose, which is moving lots of people. With ICAR, Verdae, and Magnolia going up, this will be a good investment. The MPO in Greenville (John Gardner) is pushing BRT for all of those reasons.

But as someone who was studied public transit, I can tell you that fixed route systems like this BRT are a major enhancement to quality bus service, which acts to disperse the people. Think of busses as capillaries and BRT/LRT as veins and arteries. You need one to support the other. When Greenville gets GTA running full steam again with some sort of permanent funding structure I think you could see something like whats happening in Charlotte (major transit expansion).

BRT is still a relatively new technology. Hopefully by the time Greenville gets around to building this, it will be more evident as to the success of the concept. Right now, my concern is that it won't have the same effect as LRT. But that truely remains to be seen. I also want to see if any place actually decides to upgrade their BRT to LRT. So far it hasnt been done (doesn't mean it cant happen). It would be a logistical nightmare to maintain service while building over the top of the existing pathways.

[g-man430]

^^^Great post Spartan. Who is John Gardner and what does MPO stand for?

[Spartan]

John Garner is the guy who makes those powerpoints you love so much. An MPO is a Metropolitan Planning Organization. Every urban area over 50,00 is required to have one by law, or be a part of an adjacent one. These are based purely on the Urban Area statistic. You may be more familiar with it under its proper name: the Greenville-Pickens Area Transit Study (GPATS)

For exmaple, Greenville's MPO jurisdiction covers all of the Greenville Urban area, including Powdersville, Easley, and Greer where it butts into Spartanburg's MPO (SPATS). They are required to over see all tranasportation planning efforts in their jurisdiction and work with other governments to get this done. Money is distributed from the government for transportation via the MPO for things like transit and special projects and these organizations determine priorities for transportation proejcts (widen roads, resurface roads, etc) within their jurisdiction.

Mauldin and Simpsonville are technically their own urban area, separate from Greenville, but they have opted to be a part of Greenivlle's MPO. Thats why you may hear from time to time, someone mention Mauldin and Simpsonville starting their own transit service. They could technically split from Greenville and form their own system and fund their own projects.

Another example is the Clemson-Seneca Micropolitan area. They are probably going to pass 50,000 during the next census. At that point they will have to decide whether to form their own MPO or join up with another: Anderson (ANATS) or Greenville (GPATS). My guess is they will form their own. It seems to be working so far like it is.

[gs3]

I also want to see if any place actually decides to upgrade their BRT to LRT. So far it hasnt been done (doesn't mean it cant happen).

Seattle.....the Metro Tunnel. Been around for years as BRT with 5 underground stations. Currently being upgraded to LRT.

[krazeeboi]

I haven't heard of a "bullet bus" before, but this sounds pretty darn cool. I hope it goes through. Hopefully its success would serve as a precursor to light rail or commuter rail (or both).

[g-man430]

^^^Me neither. What is it exactly? Is it BRT or something else? It said it would be high-speed, which BRT can't really be unless it's on a rail, but buses with tires can't go on rails. Is this something new that no other city has or what? If you look at the rendering in the news article from WYFF it looks like it will ride on a rail.

Edited March 15, 2007 by g-man430

[maninthepark]

This is a cool video about three city's around the world that have BRT systems up and running.

For you guys that have not seen or heard of it before

Edited March 15, 2007 by maninthepark

[adrockc2]

I've been out of town for the past few days. All I can say is WOW WOW WOW I hope this happens.

[g-man430]

I still don't know whether it's going to be on a rail or pavement. However, notice during this news video, Nigel Robertson says "a bus like train": http://www.wyff4.com/video/11245938/index.html This sounds like it might actually be a on a rail. Also, when it shows the route map during the video, it specifically says " proposed high speed RAIL."

Edited March 15, 2007 by g-man430

[adrockc2]

I still don't know whether it's going to be on a rail or pavement. Howver, notice during this news video, Nigel Robertson says "a bus like train": http://www.wyff4.com/video/11245938/index.html This sounds like it might actually be a on a rail. Also, when it shows the route map during the video, it specifically says " proposed high speed RAIL."

I'm pretty sure it will run on pavement. The picture on the news 4 website shows it stopped in a station which makes it appear to be in some sort of a track when it's actually just the station platform.

[g-man430]

I'm pretty sure it will run on pavement. The picture on the news 4 website shows it stopped in a station which makes it appear to be in some sort of a track when it's actually just the station platform.

You're probably right, because the bus examples they showed on the WYFF news video that would be like the ones in Greenville had tires and were BRT. I'm not complaining though.

Edited March 15, 2007 by g-man430

[jarvismj]

Again, all I can say is that I'm not a fan of BRT, having to take the Silver Line usually 3 or 4 times a week. Greenville's idea looks as if they are going to do it, just bite the bullet, and put in LRT. It will cost less to do that, than to shut down the system to convert in 5 or 10 years.

As for what I ride, the BRT here is your standard articulated bus, but above ground it runs on diesel, and below ground, with the exception of the Ted Williams Tunnel, it's run on electric power, as in typical trolley bus.

Greenville seems to be acknowledging the fact that they need this, but my question is, is that are they going to jump on a bandwagon that hasn't been proven, or are they going to do something right? If they want to do something more permanent, go ahead and lay double tracks from ICAR to Downtown, then run diesel LRV's such as the ones on the River Line in New Jersey that I rode on awhile back. This will bring the hardest part to existence, and then later on, they can install the catenary, and run electric LRV's, and keep the diesel for a backup solution.

From what I've read, the River Line was set up in record time for a rail transit system, and carries just over 5,000 people per day. Anyways, here is further reading regarding that system. Wiki Article.

[g-man430]

^^^The reason they are doing BRT instead of LRT is because they don't have the money to do LRT, but do have enough to do BRT. Also, what if people don't ride it. Think about the waste of money a LRT line would have been.

That's the first time I have ever heard of anybody complaining about BRT before.

Edited March 15, 2007 by Spartan