Greenville Transit

[Spartan]

I think what needs to happen is the City make GTA have AWESOME service within the City limits only. You wouldn't have to wait more than 15 minutes for a bus anywhere within the city during peak hours. Still, its a small area, so they will need to connect it only to key employment areas and destinations outside of the City, but the goal here would be to show that with proper funding you coudl have effective transit service that people would use (and they would if it actually went somewhere).

Anway, its good to know that there is at least SOME support for transit within the City even if the entire council isn't behind it yet.

[greenvillegrows]

Can anyone say "referendum"?

Charleston County South Carolina puts over $7 million into their transit system. Greenville County puts something like $250,000. The City supposedly puts in a little more. I don't know what individual municipalities put into the Charleston system. Does anyone really think that Greenville is trying to come up with a real transit system? If so, show me the money! Our elected politicians, our government managers, our civic employees, our community volunteers, and the news media have apparantly spent thousands of hours discussing how to be more frugal with our transit spending. What the? Who is spending the time necessary discussing how to spend more money?

$500,000 versus $7,000,000 plus. How do you save your way into a real transit system?

In this Greenville News article "Greenville County Council Chairman Butch Kirven warned Thursday that the county's quality of life is threatened by a projected shortfall in road funding, and he called for exploring solutions, including a possible 1 percent sales tax increase that could only be approved via referendum."

Why does the article not mention that mass transit is at least a partial solution to traffic issues? Why does no one connect a possible referendum for funding to an actual solution instead of a stop gap measure to accomodate growth? If you're going to spend $1.1 billion on transportation, lets not just invite more cars to use the road - let's provide a better alternative. Why would I want to vote for more money to make a problem worse? Let's vote for a solution!

[Spartan]

^Well said.

[greenvillegrows]

Have you seen Greenville's Trails and Greenways Master Plan?

[rattler]

My following point has probably been discussed multiple times, but, Greenville lacks the density, number of jobs, and population in general to make mass transit such as a light rail work. Density breeds need for transit. Transit breeds need for density. Also, there is not a mind set of "mass transit is a great option for me giong to work" in Greenville. Places like Denver which has the mind set of "lets try transit" will have much more sucess.

That being said if we took the "infrastructure improvement budget" and or "road improvement funds" and put those towards "subsidizing transit," transit would work. If find it terribly ironic that the crowd that says transit does not work because it has to be subsidized is typically the same crowd that cries for road improvements. Well, ALL of our roads are subidized by us, the taxpayers. We have one toll road in the upstate, and no one pays for that... yet.

Off point, but last week a cowork of mine had a car totaled by a GTA bus. The bus dropped its universal joint directly in front of his wife's car. She had no option but to run over it, as there was on coming traffic. At that point a GTA mechanic came out and said "this is our fault." Now, GTA has denied his insurance claim. HA! Great way to promote ridership... Use the buses to destroy cars.

Edited October 24, 2007 by rattler

[Spartan]

Greenville only lacks the proper built environment. Density is a factor, of course, but there is enough in place today to have a decent transit system built around busses that could be successful. I question LRT and BRT at this point in the game, but there is no reason not to go ahead and plan for it in the future (buying ROW and such).

[krazeeboi]

I was reading a report about the role that metropolitan areas play in the national economy (based on 2005 data from the 100 largest metro areas), and saw a section in which Greenville was mentioned in regards to mass transit--unfortunately not in the best light:

On sustainable growth, public transit passenger miles concentrate heavily within a relatively small number of major metro areas. Nine of the ten largest metro areas surpassed 100 transit miles traveled per capita in 2005, but several among the top 100 (including Greenville, Boise, Jackson, and Augusta) fail to register even 10 transit miles per capita.

With as much growth as Greenville is experiencing, especially along an already congested I-85, this needs to change really soon.

[GvilleSC]

Hopefully some more reports that mention Greenville in this way will help reveal to leaders that the problem needs to be fixed and that it's possible... There was an article recently on GreenvilleOnline that said leaders were talking to CAT leaders about transit and the idea was even thrown out there that maybe CAT could run Greenville's bus transit. I can't remember too much about the write-up and I can't seem to find the article now. I'd like to know more about what's being discussed and details in general.

[Spartan]

^ That would be interesting. Greenville would have to pony up a lot of money to make that happen.

[greenvillegrows]

I got a copy of the weekly report that the GTA manager sends the board. This week it says that the City gave notice that it will not participate in any joint functions with the GTA. For example, the City will not participate with the GTA in bicycle trails or even website development.

Has anyone else gotten an indication about why the city is so hostile towards mass transit? I use the word "hostile" because the city talks up bike trails to anyone that will listen. Why tell the GTA that they won't partner?

[GvilleSC]

I got a copy of the weekly report that the GTA manager sends the board. This week it says that the City gave notice that it will not participate in any joint functions with the GTA. For example, the City will not participate with the GTA in bicycle trails or even website development.

Has anyone else gotten an indication about why the city is so hostile towards mass transit? I use the word "hostile" because the city talks up bike trails to anyone that will listen. Why tell the GTA that they won't partner?

This is confusing! Not sure what's going on.

[RestedTraveler]

I use the word "hostile" because the city talks up bike trails to anyone that will listen. Why tell the GTA that they won't partner?

If this is true, then I'd honestly say that the term "hostile" is accurate. Perhaps "selfish" is another that could be used here? If the federal government is willing to give funding to the GTA to create bike trails, then why wouldn't the City of Greenville jump all over the opportunity to partner with the GTA and take advantage of the federal funding, unless the city has some selfish motive for not doing so. I can't imagine what that could be; however, I find this quite sad and in my view if more people were aware of this, it'd do nothing more than leave the city with a black eye in the face of the public.

[Spartan]

I find that move very surprising. The City is usually pretty progressive when it comes to this type of thing. I find it off that the fed would give money to GTA for bike trails though. Usually that type of thing goes to an organization like GPATS.

[gs3]

Interesting read about traffic congestion in the area and the need for a better mass transit system. Another funny Greenville Snooz mistake......Haywood at 85......when did Haywood Road suddenly start crossing I-85? Someone at the News needs a geography lesson.

Article:

http://greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/.../711290321/1003

[Spartan]

That was a good article, but the reader comments are better

[distortedlogic]

What about adding a hospitatality tax to hotel rooms in the area. Would'nt something like $3 a night add about 150mm over the next 25 years? That would help fund some construction. I know widening is not "the answer", but it will be necessary and inevitable. And it will be cheaper today than 20 years from now.

[gs3]

What about adding a hospitatality tax to hotel rooms in the area. Would'nt something like $3 a night add about 150mm over the next 25 years? That would help fund some construction. I know widening is not "the answer", but it will be necessary and inevitable. And it will be cheaper today than 20 years from now.

I agree. Not sure what the current hospitality tax is....anyone know? I don't hear much about it though. Seems with Greenville's healthy increase in tourism over the last several years, more hospitality tax should be explored. Don't tax the average citizen with more gas tax.

[gregtrob]

What about adding a hospitatality tax to hotel rooms in the area. Would'nt something like $3 a night add about 150mm over the next 25 years? That would help fund some construction. I know widening is not "the answer", but it will be necessary and inevitable. And it will be cheaper today than 20 years from now.

I think the city/county/state should focus on fixing the existing roads before they consider any "improvements". Potholes are everywhere in Taylors and yet nothing is being done to fix them. In my neighborhood the streets are cracked and in desperate need of paving, but I've heard nothing about it.

All over Greenville, and any traveling within the state the roads appear to be in poor condition. IIRC there was an article no more than a year ago about the horrendous conditions of SC roads, and that truckers were doing what they could to avoid the state because of that. Not exactly a great way to lure industries to SC - particularly manufacturing, and/or white collar either with the poor conditions.

[Spartan]

2 things:

1) I don't think the hospitality tax is the best way to fund a transit system.

2) There should be a dedicated sales tax just for transit (or transportation with a certain percentage allocated for transit). Nobody is suggesting that we take away form roads to fund transit, but transit shoudl be a part of any funding increase thats applied to roads.

[Galley]

I agree about Greenville's mentality that public transportation is for lower-class folks. I spent five days in Montr

[gs3]

^ I agree.

It is the mentality of most that the transit system is for the poor.

That mentality however, comes about because the structure and routes are set-up to serve the poor. The transit system has forgotten there is a whole middle class that would ride, if it served the needs of the middle class. I'm middle class, and the transit system can't get me to the airport to take my flights for business. Park and rides are non existent. The transit system can't get me to Whole Foods, Best Buy, Greenridge to shop. The transit system doesn't run late enough that I can take it after dinner at a downtown restaurant. The transit system doesn't run additional buses or run late for events at Bi-Lo / Peace Center / Etc. The transit system doesn't allow dogs except seeing eye dogs. The transit system doesn't have paved and sheltered stops where I can stay clean and dry on the way to meetings. The list can go on and on. My point is, with a system structured for the poor and the needs of the middle / upper middle class totally ignored, how can people think of the system in any other manner except a system for the poor? Why, as a middle class person would I ride the transit system? It doesn't serve my needs. Design a system that will serve the needs of all, and maybe people will ride.

[GvilleSC]

^ I agree.

It is the mentality of most that the transit system is for the poor.

That mentality however, comes about because the structure and routes are set-up to serve the poor. The transit system has forgotten there is a whole middle class that would ride, if it served the needs of the middle class. I'm middle class, and the transit system can't get me to the airport to take my flights for business. Park and rides are non existent. The transit system can't get me to Whole Foods, Best Buy, Greenridge to shop. The transit system doesn't run late enough that I can take it after dinner at a downtown restaurant. The transit system doesn't run additional buses or run late for events at Bi-Lo / Peace Center / Etc. The transit system doesn't allow dogs except seeing eye dogs. The transit system doesn't have paved and sheltered stops where I can stay clean and dry on the way to meetings. The list can go on and on. My point is, with a system structured for the poor and the needs of the middle / upper middle class totally ignored, how can people think of the system in any other manner except a system for the poor? Why, as a middle class person would I ride the transit system? It doesn't serve my needs. Design a system that will serve the needs of all, and maybe people will ride.

Well said. It's a matter of our leaders finding this out and taking the necessary steps to make it happen.

[GvilleSC]

A "Transit Ready" community is being proposed along Pleasantburg Drive in the City of Greenville. The development would be connected to the 'GreenLink' rapid bus transit line and would be within a 10 minute walk of major Pleasantburg attractions such as the Carolina First Center and the Downtown Airport.

I think this is really encouraging. The Greenlink system will run from the AmTrak station downtown on Washington Street to Clemson University's International Center for Automotive Reseach. With downtown and ICAR as anchors, these stops in between are going to be key. It's great to have Verdae and now this proposal in the mix. I hope to see more developments follow this model.

Transit Ready Community

[Greenville]

A "Transit Ready" community is being proposed along Pleasantburg Drive in the City of Greenville. The development would be connected to the 'GreenLink' rapid bus transit line and would be within a 10 minute walk of major Pleasantburg attractions such as the Carolina First Center and the Downtown Airport.

I think this is really encouraging. The Greenlink system will run from the AmTrak station downtown on Washington Street to Clemson University's International Center for Automotive Reseach. With downtown and ICAR as anchors, these stops in between are going to be key. It's great to have Verdae and now this proposal in the mix. I hope to see more developments follow this model.

Transit Ready Community

How very forward-thinking! I am a big fan.

[Galley]

This is very interesting, and I hope we can give it its own thread. I'd like to know exactly where this is being proposed since I live a 1/4 mile from that intersection.