Greenville Transit

[greenvillegrows]

Have you seen the GPATS long range transportation plan? Here's the section on mass transit. It's about 17 megs so it may take some time to download, but it covers many of the suggestions discussed lately. The last couple of pages address potential funding ideas. More funding is needed to do anything.

Edited June 17, 2008 by greenvillegrows

[GvilleSC]

The Greenlink is asking the DPC for approval of its shelter design. You can see it here: Greenlink Shelter Proposal (PDF)

YUCK! How uninspiring! It seems like you would just want to leave the current shelters in place, because this is NOT an upgrade, IMO. It's just along the same plane...

At least they do recognize that different sizes are appropriate. They suggest that a larger one would be need at Greenville Tech as opposed to a neighborhood...

I was hoping for something unique and with a modern flair. It doesn't have to be anything expensive, but yea, a little more creativity than picking one out in a catalogue of bus stops would be nice if we're trying to rebrand the bus system and make people view the system differently!

[StrangeCock]

Those are pathetic. If they're trying to convince people that this will be a new public transportation experience...FAIL.

[Spartan]

Thats a pretty standard bus shelter that you would see in any city.

[gman430]

Thats a pretty standard bus shelter that you would see in any city.

And that's the problem. They're just like any other bus shelter. I thought the city was trying to make a model for other cities to follow. Sounds like they are the ones doing the following by putting in bus shelters that every other city already has. I don't think the new bus shelters will look ugly but they do lack a lot unfortunately. Weren't they supposed to have real time departure/arrival times like you see on LRT lines?

[GvilleSC]

Thats a pretty standard bus shelter that you would see in any city.

Exactly. All the excitement and mystery over someone "designing" or coming up with a "new design" for the bus shelters was a hoax. No one had to come up with anything new. This is NORMAL and been done before...

Why would the DPC need to approve this? I hope the City has not paid anyone to reinvent the wheel...

[Greenville]

After reading the posts, I was expecting an awful bus shelter design. But this isn't bad. It looks clean and simple. Such a design won't wow anyone, but it won't offend anyone either. I would like to see some other creative options, but if they decide on this I won't be disappointed. Remember, our bus stops currently consist of signs on metal poles - sometimes with a rundown bench beside it, and sometimes nothing at all. This is a huge improvement.

[gs3]

It's a shelter. Period.

It serves a function....to keep riders dry. The design is standard and works perfectly. Why reinvent the wheel?

I sometimes get irked by the small town American attitude about design / misplaced places for design.

"Lets put pretty colors and scenes our car tags" WRONG: Give us basic white tags with black numbers.

"Lets have decorative bus shelters" WRONG: Give us a plain shelter that serves a purpose

"Lets have pretty little emblems on our street signs" WRONG: Give us readable, large letter street signs.

It is a fine line, but in my opinion, any kind of "designed" bus shelters would wreak of that "southern precious" attitude, and that isn't the Greenville attitude at all.

Use money wisely on design and let that design manifest itself in parks, public art, public buildings, etc, not on bus shelters. That is much more the European approach and they seem to have it right. Paris is about the only city I know with decorative metro/bus stops/shelters. Most other European cities keep it simple and functional.

The basic design chosen is one of form following function and shows the city is being wise with our money.

Edited July 9, 2008 by gsupstate

[Danmire]

I would say the focus right now is "Quantity". Seeing new bus shelters popping up all over the routes will be good to see and will be a positive visual on the City's running of the system. I can see cries of money being wasted on "Designed" bus shelters if they started popping up. The Bus system has been plagued by underfunding so I think the biggest bang for the buck is the right way to go. You can't even tell at the moment where bus stops are. Seeing shelters pop up will actually let people know waht route the buses take and possibly consider using them. It's a positive step in the right direction.

[GvilleSC]

Maybe I'm dreaming, but is it not possible to get something with a slightly better design for the around the same cost? I'm not asking for Paris' Metro's beautiful Art Deco entrances.

Something sleek and modern looking?

A little more open feeling?

Or something a little more unique, for branding purposes:

How is more of the same changing the way Greenville thinks about transit?

[crescentmoon]

<<Something sleek and modern looking?

A little more open feeling?>>

IMHO your first example is just ugly.

And "more open" also means more exposed to the elements ... kinda defeating some of the purpose.

I find nothing objectionable about the city's proposal. Not intrusive and cost effective are good qualities.

Edited July 10, 2008 by crescentmoon

[adrockc2]

iShelter

[gs3]

iShelter

I thought the same thing when I saw it.

[linkerjpatrick]

I thought the same thing when I saw it.

I thought of a holodeck thing on Star Trek: The Next Generation.

[gs3]

^ Wouldn't a holodeck in West End be fun? Wish they existed.

The expanded trolley service within downtown starts today. Article from the GV News:

http://www.greenvilleonline.com/apps/pbcs....NEWS01/80710006

[linkerjpatrick]

^ Wouldn't a holodeck in West End be fun? Wish they existed.

What if Greenville is just a simulation and we just don't know it. Maybe we will get Pinnacle on Main with the next upgrade.

[motonenterprises]

To change gears, I was in Charlotte today and we had the opportunity to ride the Lynx light rail train. I'm impressed with it. What is the deal with Greenville's plan? Some of the tracks near ICAR have been redone and what looks like a bridge going across Woodruff Rd. has been started. Also they have replaced the tracks between Haywood to Woodruff Rd. So whats the deal? BRT, LRT or what? On another note, not many can touch downtown Greenville at ground level. Not even Charlotte! They have some tall pretty building, but Greenville is noticeably busier with pedestrian traffic. I still love Charlotte though.

[GvilleSC]

I can't believe that not only are they replacing the bridge (which was expected) that crosses Woodruff Rd, but they also redid the tracks all the way to Haywood!! I say that if you're going to have the money spent on rebuilding the rail system through this large stretch of the route, just aim for light rail immediately. Yea yea, we must prove ourselves first, but otherwise it's going to go something like this: replace new tracks and rail bridge over Woodruff. Tear up the tracks to create BRT line. Replace tracks to implement light rail system. And depending on the bridge that will be constructed, it may have to be replace to accommodate the rapid bus system and again for rail... Of course, all of this would be spread out over years and years, but still, who does this makes sense to financially?

Edited July 13, 2008 by GvilleSC

[gman430]

I can't believe that not only are they replacing the bridge (which was expected) that crosses Woodruff Rd, but they also redid the tracks all the way to Haywood!! I say that if you're going to have the money spent on rebuilding the rail system through this large stretch of the route, just aim for light rail immediately. Yea yea, we must prove ourselves first, but otherwise it's going to go something like this: replace new tracks and rail bridge over Woodruff. Tear up the tracks to create BRT line. Replace tracks to implement light rail system. And depending on the bridge that will be constructed, it may have to be replace to accommodate the rapid bus system and again for rail... Of course, all of this would be spread out over years and years, but still, who does this makes sense to financially?

It takes a lot more to implement a light-rail line than just a rail line. You also have to install the overhead powerlines, transit stops, etc. That costs money which the federal government provides. The federal government will not provide the money for a LRT or BRT line if you don't have a good bus system first. Look at Charlotte for an example of that. Besides, what's the difference if it's a LRT or BRT line? They both serve the same purpose and a BRT line is a lot cheaper to install than a LRT line. Would you rather have 10 miles of BRT or 1 mile of LRT? Oh and I recommend each of you take a look at this video to see just how sucky our transit system really is:

Edited July 13, 2008 by citylife

[motonenterprises]

Its no secret to us that our transit system sucks dirt! I don't care if its lrt or brt! I just want a way to travel inbetween downtown and Simpsonville than driving all the way in and fighting to find parking. I'm willing to park at ICAR and ride and also pay extra taxes for it.

[gman430]

Its no secret to us that our transit system sucks dirt! I don't care if its lrt or brt! I just want a way to travel inbetween downtown and Simpsonville than driving all the way in and fighting to find parking. I'm willing to park at ICAR and ride and also pay extra taxes for it.

Hey, I agree with you but the way to change that isn't to complain about it on here. You, me, and everybody else on this forum that cares along with the general public should get together and head down to the next city and county council meeting. That's how the TRAC plan passed. Remember how many advocates showed up for that? At least a few hundred. If you want to make a difference then you need to let your voice be heard. Make flyers and hand them out to strangers on Main Street, speak your mind at council meetings, have group impact meetings, start a fundraising campaign, etc.

Edited July 13, 2008 by citylife

[motonenterprises]

Thats a great idea.

[GvilleSC]

It takes a lot more to implement a light-rail line than just a rail line. You also have to install the overhead powerlines, transit stops, etc. That costs money which the federal government provides. The federal government will not provide the money for a LRT or BRT line if you don't have a good bus system first. Look at Charlotte for an example of that. Besides, what's the difference if it's a LRT or BRT line? They both serve the same purpose and a BRT line is a lot cheaper to install than a LRT line. Would you rather have 10 miles of BRT or 1 mile of LRT? Oh and I recommend each of you take a look at this video to see just how sucky our transit system really is:

I think you missed the point of my post.

What I was saying is this: If it will eventually be a paved road for buses, and is currently abandoned, then why is a financially strapped government entity spending the money to replace the rail and rail bridge on this corridor? It seems to make more sense to me, that you would speed up the process of the BRT implementation, you would prevent the laying of rail, removal of rail, and paving... This brought me to the point of saying, we should aim to start with light rail to prevent the removal of the new rails. We would need a substantial improvement for our bus system (I realize that), but maybe that's what it would take to ignite the desire for improvement??

Just dreaming here

[Spartan]

Usually when you go in and modify a road, you have to maintain what is currently there or provide a reasonable alternative or monetary accommodation. In this case, the bridge had to be replaced.

Substantially enhancing bus service is just the first step towards getting federal funding for rapid transit projects. The Greenlink we see today should be viewed as a skeleton for what the rest of the bus service will have to be.

It takes a lot more to implement a light-rail line than just a rail line. You also have to install the overhead powerlines, transit stops, etc. That costs money which the federal government provides. The federal government will not provide the money for a LRT or BRT line if you don't have a good bus system first. Look at Charlotte for an example of that. Besides, what's the difference if it's a LRT or BRT line? They both serve the same purpose and a BRT line is a lot cheaper to install than a LRT line. Would you rather have 10 miles of BRT or 1 mile of LRT? Oh and I recommend each of you take a look at this video to see just how sucky our transit system really is:

Charlotte views the LRT line not just as a way to get people into uptown, but as a mechanism for redevelopment and economic development along the south corridor. BRT has not been shown to spur redevelopment like LRT has in the USA. LRT does cost substantially more, but the returns are much higher too. The redevelopment and reinvestment that has occurred along South Blvd today already totals more than the cost of building the LRT. The government in turn gets more tax dollars from more residents living in the city that offset that cost somewhat. You can make the analogy of the city or county having to build water, sewer, roads, sidewalks, and all of the other infrastructure in greenfield sites. How much does that cost taxpayers? Why does nobody question that? In Charlotte, some people made the comparison of the LRT line that went over budget and suffered from some delays in opening to the construction of I-485, which is massively over budget and behind schedule...

[gman430]

Charlotte views the LRT line not just as a way to get people into uptown, but as a mechanism for redevelopment and economic development along the south corridor. BRT has not been shown to spur redevelopment like LRT has in the USA. LRT does cost substantially more, but the returns are much higher too. The redevelopment and reinvestment that has occurred along South Blvd today already totals more than the cost of building the LRT. The government in turn gets more tax dollars from more residents living in the city that offset that cost somewhat. You can make the analogy of the city or county having to build water, sewer, roads, sidewalks, and all of the other infrastructure in greenfield sites. How much does that cost taxpayers? Why does nobody question that? In Charlotte, some people made the comparison of the LRT line that went over budget and suffered from some delays in opening to the construction of I-485, which is massively over budget and behind schedule...

Yes, but the BRT line proposed for Greenville would be along a fixed route. Here is a list of developments that are proposed or under construction right now along or within one mile of the proposed BRT line for Greenville:

McBee Station (mixed use development)

Linky Stone Village (mixed use development)

Verdae (mixed use development)

Magnolia Park Town Center (mixed use development)

Carolina First headquarters (corporate headquarters with at least 600 employees)

CU-ICAR (research center that could create at least 10,000 new jobs)

Millennium Campus (research/office park that could create at least 20,000 new jobs)

Sounds to me like the BRT route here is already spurring development before it's even built. This list doesn't include all of the apartments going up in the area either.