Greenville Transit

[GvilleSC]

If serious LRT talk is underway, I'd be willing to bet that corporations such as Fluor (and others who would be NEAR the route at various planned stops) would be willing to make contributions to the bus system for expansion in that stop's area. Ultimately, the money would allow the bus service to serve their employees' needs of transportation to and from the LRT stop and the place of business. This could definitely help allow for a convenient and a more timely running of buses...

-In general, Fluor could jump on board, among other businesses, including Simon, in the Haywood area.

-For the ICAR area, St. Francis, Hubbell, Carolina First, Shops at Greenridge, the Point, and the proposed apartments at the Point are definite candidates.

-Samsung(?) and Charter for Mauldin. Maybe large employers such as Jacobs Engineering, too?

-Griffin Park, which is built with bus stops, might even be willing in Simpsonville as a big player..

Density would follow.

[Spartan]

With that being said, Washington DC's metro barely extends 15 miles from the city center. And it has an incredibly robust bus system. Has anyone ever started a mass transit system without a substantial bus system in place? I don't know if that's necessarily a pre-requisite, but I would think it would go hand-in-hand.

You raise some good points. DC's urban core was already there, but Rosslyn, Courthouse, and the other stops in Arlington County were not. You can clearly see where the metro stops are in Arlington County Virginia by looking at a satellite map. The stops have created density where there was none before.

[silverseale]

With a better transit system, we could have Zipcars (http://www.zipcar.com) parked at places like Millennium Campus, Jacobs, Fluor, and other convenient locations for those who don't want to drive (added: "to work"), but may need a car in a pinch during the day. It's a business opportunity for someone, I'm sure.

Edited December 16, 2008 by silverseale

[beyonce245]

Greetings from your neighboring state to the north. I wanted to drop by and engage this active board about the topic of transit in Greenville. I don't mean to burst anyone's bubble or start of spitting match, but rather start a constructive dialogue. I hale from Greensboro and was wondering why there has been so much discussion of light rail or rapid bus transit when it appears the first steps Greenville should take is improving basic service offerings with traditional buses.

As of October 2008, Greensboro's GTA carried 3.6 million passenger trips this year. The transit authority has an operating budget of about $13 million and a fleet of 40 full size buses and 10 medium sized buses for a college specific transit program called Heat. In all, GTA and Heat offer 31 routes and crosstown connectors, daily service including sundays with most routes offering 30 minute service or less, and some routes running as late as 3 am. All college students are eligible to ride all Heat and GTA buses for free. Factor in other nearby transit systems including WSTA, Hi-Tran and the regional transit system PART which connects all three, and the Triad region has a fleet of 135 full size buses, and 328 medium and small buses and vans. The region has transit operating expenditures in excess of $38 million. In addition, GTA has earmarked $15 million in federal funds to construct a new $24 million transit headquarters and maintenance facility because it has outgrown its current space.

From the little searching I have done, Greenville's Greenlink has an operating budget of about $3 million and a fleet of about 10 buses. If I am incorrect about this, my apologies. You all are likely to have better information about your system's specifics.

The Triad's systems seem much more developed than those in the Upstate and feasibility for light rail or rapid bus in the Triad is a long way off. The region just spent millions of dollars publishing a 270 page seamless mobility plan which recommended increased and more efficient bus service before developing light rail and other technologies.

As for Greenville, I think the city would be best served by concentrating on increasing bus service. Not only does the system appear to offer few routes, but the systems lacks the fleet necessary to grow public transit in a metro area of Greenville's size. Extending evening hour service and offering sunday service should be top priorities.

Your turn. Lets discuss.

Edited December 16, 2008 by beyonce245

[gman430]

The proposed BRT/LRT line for Greenville would be along a fixed route that goes through an area experiencing a lot of development right now. It's becoming very urban in that area. Also, it could help cut down on some of the traffic. The proposed line would start at ICAR/Millennium Campus and run six miles along an old rail line through Verdae and on to downtown Greenville. The bus system here does need to be expanded but this old rail line runs through a great area for mass transit to be implemented. New developments proposed, under construction, or completed that are along or within one mile of proposed BRT/LRT line:

Magnolia Park

Carolina First headquarters

The Point

The Shops at Greenridge

Verdae Development

ICAR

Millennium Campus

McBee Station

Linky Stone Village

Carolina First Center expansion/renovation

Edited December 16, 2008 by citylife

[Spartan]

You've pretty accurately described Greenville's transit situation.

What you may not realize is that Greenlink is actually a step in the right direction. It was a highly political mess- but the short version is that the bus system is now under the purview of the City and not the County. The City is going to be more inclined to support transit than the County. The downside is that the county has deeper pockets so it COULD fund it at a higher level.

The main problem for transit in Greenville is that it does not have a dedicated funding source, so the service is bare-bones and not worth using unless you have no other option. I can't speak to Greensboro, but ultimately in order to have a successful transit operation, consistent funding is crucial. Most people on here will tell you that they would probably give transit a shot if it were somewhat convenient and went to places that they need to go. All it takes is money.

[beyonce245]

The main problem for transit in Greenville is that it does not have a dedicated funding source.

Am I correct in understanding that South Carolina law does not permit municipalities to use property taxes for transit? That is Greensboro's main funding source.

[Spartan]

I don't think thats true, but I can't say for certain. I think there is not a political will to raise the millage rate to pay for a bus system. Charleston was able to pass a 1/2 cent sales tax for transportation improvements (which included money for roads, sidewalks, busses, etc). I think that it would be a miracle if it happens in any Upstate city.

The other difference is that SC cities are physically smaller than NC cities, so NC cities have a respectively larger tax base. Greensboro and Greenville are not all that different in terms of urban area population, but to compare the official city populations you'd think that Greenville was a much smaller town than it is. So, its a much bigger deal for cities to fund transit in SC than it is for those in NC.

[beyonce245]

What about bonds? Greensboro residents voted in favor of $134 million in transportation bonds in November. I tried finding information about Greenlink's current plans for improvement, but could only find a report released back in 2005. Do you all know what the transit authority there is currently working on / planning for?

[beyonce245]

What about bonds? Greensboro residents voted in favor of $134 million in transportation bonds in November. I tried finding information about Greenlink's current plans for improvement, but could only find a report released back in 2005. Do you all know what the transit authority there is currently working on / planning for?

[Danmire]

Amother positive about the greenlink system being under City control now is that the City is working hard to leverage federal funds to improve the system. There is a 20% - 80% split on certain stuff between local-Federal funding. So if the City coughs up @0% of the cost the government will chip in 80%. The City is being able to do that with using their labor costs on certain items as the local match to the feceral funds. So it isn't necessarily costing additional money to unlock some federal funding.

The Greenlink system has just been approved funding to do a system wide master plan, this involved dollars contributed by teh city as well as the county to get the federal funds. I believe this master plan will be looking at the routes and how to increase, improve etc. the bus system.

I think the bus system will start to noticibly improve over the coming year.

[vicupstate]

Am I correct in understanding that South Carolina law does not permit municipalities to use property taxes for transit? That is Greensboro's main funding source.

I don;t know if it's illegal, but I have never heard of an city or county doing so.

[beyonce245]

I don;t know if it's illegal, but I have never heard of an city or county doing so.

From The State Newspaper: "State law does not allow cities and counties to use property taxes to pay for public transportation"

At least Greenlink isn't about to fold like CMRTA. Although from what I've read, Greenville's transit system has seen its fair share of bad days.

[Spartan]

Cities can use bonds, but they won't do it.

Like Danmire said, Greenlink is working on a plan- you can read about it if you search this thread- but we haven't had any updates on it lately. There is wisdom in not mentioning transit activities too often in the Upstate. It gets people riled up and complaining about it.

[gman430]

Transportation officials from Georgia, South Carolina and North Carolina have released a feasibility study that assesses the implementation of high speed passenger train service south between Charlotte, N.C., Greenville, S.C., Atlanta, Ga. and Macon, Ga. as an extension of the Washington, D.C. to Charlotte Southeast High Speed Rail corridor (SEHSR). News article here: http://www.digtriad.com/news/local/article...04&catid=57 Study on corridor here: http://www.sehsr.org/

[GvilleSC]

This article talks about the County's funding of a study to examine the best use for a couple miles of the rail line that connects to Greenville's proposed BRT route. County chairman wants rail transit, but Greenville City officials cite cost as a problem for that. The line would run all the way to Fountain Inn, with major connecting points at Heritage Park, downtown Simpsonville, and Fairview Rd.

The most important thing that I saw mentioned in this article is that the City is looking to rezone areas along the proposed BRT line to a "Transit Oriented Development" zoning. They see this transit line as a source for spurring development (and rightfully so).

Edited January 11, 2009 by GvilleSC

[Galley]

It can't happen soon enough. A transit station would most likely be placed near the intersection of Pleasantburg and Laurens Rd. With the DMV property now vacant, and the proposed Linky Stone Village development, this area could really benefit from BRT.

[GvilleSC]

It can't happen soon enough. A transit station would most likely be placed near the intersection of Pleasantburg and Laurens Rd. With the DMV property now vacant, and the proposed Linky Stone Village development, this area could really benefit from BRT.

That area definitely has a huge opportunity to really become an urban zone. Unfortunately, the 7 lanes of Pleasantburg pose a huge problem for walkability. Several pedestrian bridges would ease that concern, though.

[Galley]

It's funny you brought that up. On Sat. I found out that it is impossible to make it across Pleasantburg Dr. on foot at the Keith Dr. intersection. I made it 2/3 of the way cross before the light turned red, and I was nearly struck by a vehicle. I reported it to Greenville Cares, and they will look into it.

[Greenville]

It's funny you brought that up. On Sat. I found out that it is impossible to make it across Pleasantburg Dr. on foot at the Keith Dr. intersection. I made it 2/3 of the way cross before the light turned red, and I was nearly struck by a vehicle. I reported it to Greenville Cares, and they will look into it.

Funny, I was driving down Pleasantburg on Saturday and the three of us in my car simultaneously said, "Look at that idiot trying to cross this busy street on foot!"

(I'm kidding, of course)

[GvilleSC]

Funny, I was driving down Pleasantburg on Saturday and the three of us in my car simultaneously said, "Look at that idiot trying to cross this busy street on foot!"

(I'm kidding, of course)

[gs3]

Several pedestrian bridges would ease that concern, though.

I'd like to see pedestrian bridges used in numerous area crossings. They are such a positive thing, but for some reason, southern cities view them negatively (Florida cities being somewhat of an exception). I actually heard complaints from people when I lived in Dallas about a proposed pedestrian bridge.....their complaint was that kids would stand on the bridge and throw rocks at cars.

[GvilleSC]

I'd like to see pedestrian bridges used in numerous area crossings. They are such a positive thing, but for some reason, southern cities view them negatively (Florida cities being somewhat of an exception). I actually heard complaints from people when I lived in Dallas about a proposed pedestrian bridge.....their complaint was that kids would stand on the bridge and throw rocks at cars.

Maybe vehicular bridges shouldn't have sidewalks!

[gs3]

Maybe vehicular bridges shouldn't have sidewalks!

I know.....crazy the objections people will come up with.

What would really be a dream, is to take all the area six lane roads.....turn them back into 4 lanes for cars by removing the middle lanes, then adding bus transit down the center, with pedestrian bridges crossing the car lanes for connection to the bus transit. Dreaming of course.....

[Spartan]

There is an interesting article in the GSA Business Journal about Greenville's LRT efforts. Its main focus is the pros and cons of LRT and BRT... the most obvious con of LRT being the cost. It doesn't resolve anything, but its an interesting read. I suspect that if nothing else, Greenville will need to wait until after this recession before there could be enough political will to make some form of rapid transit happen.

GSA Business Journal Article