Greenville Transit

[gman430]

Here is an article from WYFF on the new bus shelters: http://www.wyff4.com/news/19657520/detail.html 25 of these shelters will be installed by years end.

Edited June 5, 2009 by citylife

[Spartan]

This is completely unrelated to transit. I briefly glanced at the budget document and it caught my eye. It says Greenville County's FY 2010 budget is $197 million. Is this the total budget for FY 2010 or only some kind of supplement?

I ask because where I am, Guilford County (Greensboro), and Greenville County have similar population numbers and land area. But the FY 2010 proposed budget for Guilford County is $585 million.

If the Greenville number is the whole budget, can someone explain to me why? Does the county have a low property tax or does it not provide some services?

I'd like to know so I can suggest Guilford County put the other $390 million towards light rail!

Congrats on the extra county funding though. It's a good step forward.

In South Carolina, the governmental funding structure is completely different than in North Carolina. In NC, the state lets cities and counties actually manage their local affairs. In SC, the state does not. For example, most cities in NC manage their own water/sewer system. In SC, due to ass backwards laws that existed up until 1975, most cities have Special Purpose Districts which tax independently of cities and counties. There are a few exceptions, but all of the largest cities in the Upstate have this predicament. Fire departments are another big one. Cities typically have them under their control, but all counties rely on SPD's to get it done, especially in urban areas. Anyway, the result of these districts is that money is funneled into more small pots rather than one larger one.

The other major difference is that the Upstate of SC has very low tax rates, and the governments get by with less.

[GvilleSC]

A new bus shelter, like the others we've seen going up around the City, is in place on Augusta Street downtown in front of the Scott Towers. Of course, it looks fantastic like all of the others. However, the solar panel is underneath a tree. It's almost like the design is so set in stone, that no locational factors can be addressed...

PS, I like the fact that the bus shelters offer recycling bins.

[Galley]

On my bike ride along Mayberry Street, I noticed a couple of dozen of the new bus shelter roofs, awaiting construction.

[gs3]

On my bike ride along Mayberry Street, I noticed a couple of dozen of the new bus shelter roofs, awaiting construction.

Is there a comprehensive map of where these bus shelters will be located?

[gman430]

Simpsonville has reserved their decision and is now looking to start Greenlink service according this article from the Greenville News: http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20...ransit+decision

[GvilleSC]

Simpsonville has reserved their decision and is now looking to start Greenlink service according this article from the Greenville News: http://www.greenvilleonline.com/article/20...ransit+decision

This is fantastic news! We need everyone we can get to position themselves behind transit in Greenville. I think a commuter line has huge potential, if done correctly. And, finally, we may actually have a system that serves a greater portion of the population and can really take you somewhere!

Good job, Simpsonville!

Councilman Bruce Larson said it would be great if the city had a system that worked. He envisions residents parking at Simpsonville City Hall and riding the bus to a Greenville Drive game, and Greenville residents taking the bus to events at Heritage Park in Simpsonville.

Edited June 27, 2009 by GvilleSC

[GvilleSC]

Another new bus stop is going up. This time it's on Cleveland Street across from Greenville Tech at the Pheonix Center (name?). The concrete was being poured and stamped today.

This is another good location. There are always people standing at various stretches of this portion of the route. Nice job, Greenville.

[Galley]

I saw another one today along the Swamp Rabbit (Alameda St.?).

[GvilleSC]

Stimulus Funds to Swell Bus Fleet

Greenlink (or 'GTA' as it's called in the article ) is receiving $3 Million from federal stimulus money. The money will go toward purchasing new buses for the most part.

This is fairly exciting news, IMO. It may not be directly going toward expanding service and improving hours and frequency, but ultimately it's money that Greenlink didn't already have. Plus, the annual budget money can go toward other important initiatives of the City's transit plan on the road to improving bus service.

[Spartan]

That's great news. Stimulus money cannot go towards operations, so it can't improve operating hours. Still, having a modern, attractive bus fleet is one of many things that makes a transit system appealing.

[gs3]

Stimulus Funds to Swell Bus Fleet

Greenlink (or 'GTA' as it's called in the article ) is receiving $3 Million from federal stimulus money. The money will go toward purchasing new buses for the most part.

This is fairly exciting news, IMO. It may not be directly going toward expanding service and improving hours and frequency, but ultimately it's money that Greenlink didn't already have. Plus, the annual budget money can go toward other important initiatives of the City's transit plan on the road to improving bus service.

I will not applaud this until the stimulus money (my tax dollars) gives me something in return. New buses to shuttle the poor to places that I, a middle class working citizen do not go, just doesn't win my praise. Give me a route to the airport and I'll applaud. Give me a system I can use and I'll applaud. Until then, this is a waste of MY tax dollar (something the cuurent administration seems very good at doing......wasting money and creating debt).

[Greenville]

I will not applaud this until the stimulus money (my tax dollars) gives me something in return. New buses to shuttle the poor to places that I, a middle class working citizen do not go, just doesn't win my praise. Give me a route to the airport and I'll applaud. Give me a system I can use and I'll applaud. Until then, this is a waste of MY tax dollar (something the cuurent administration seems very good at doing......wasting money and creating debt).

I could not agree more! When I read the article yesterday, my first thought was, "Why are we using this money to replace existing buses?" I realize that some of the current buses might not be in the best condition, but I assume that they must be okay or they would not be in service. Instead, I would prefer to see the new buses be used for new routes that reach out to new people. I don't think some new bus shelters and a few new buses are going to cause ridership to increase exponentially.

They need new routes which go to popular destinations as much as anything! No successful bus system only serves the poor. It also serves commuters, shoppers, airport passengers, etc.

[gman430]

The buses Greenlink currently uses are terrible. They're always breaking down and need maintenance work done on them. The problem is that these buses aren't made for long-term use. They're made for short quick trips. Replacing these buses with ones that are designed for long-term use will help lower maintenance costs which will in turn make more money become available to expand the current system.

[gs3]

The buses Greenlink currently uses are terrible. They're always breaking down and need maintenance work done on them. The problem is that these buses aren't made for long-term use. They're made for short quick trips. Replacing these buses with ones that are designed for long-term use will help lower maintenance costs which will in turn make more money become available to expand the current system.

I'm all for lower maintenance cost, but the bus system must start running like a business and stop being run like a charity. Imagine if Delta only flew routes that connected poor, small cities.....no one would be flying and Delta would not be making any money. When will GTA (or any Southern transit system for that matter) start being run by business people as a business and stop with the charity model set-up?

Edited July 13, 2009 by gsupstate

[Greenville]

I'm all for lower maintenance cost, but the bus system must start running like a business and stop being run like a charity. Imagine if Delta only flew routes that connected poor, small cities.....no one would be flying and Delta would not be making any money. When will GTA (or any Southern transit system for that matter) start being run by business people as a business and stop with the charity model set-up?

This is especially true since very few people currently take advantage of the routes they offer! I realize that improved bus stops, cleaner buses, etc. will theoretically increase ridership on those routes, but from a business perspective it is a horrible strategy to put these new buses toward routes that are hardly being utilized.

[vicupstate]

I will not applaud this until the stimulus money (my tax dollars) gives me something in return. New buses to shuttle the poor to places that I, a middle class working citizen do not go, just doesn't win my praise. Give me a route to the airport and I'll applaud. Give me a system I can use and I'll applaud. Until then, this is a waste of MY tax dollar (something the cuurent administration seems very good at doing......wasting money and creating debt).

Look BEYOND the obvious 'first level'.

If a decent, reliable bus system provides transportation for the working poor, so that they actually CAN work rather than live on government asssistance, is that not a better idea? If a bus system lowers the pollution level so that the EPA still allows industrial expansion in our metro, does it not then provide a benefit to the entire community?

Transportation systems do NOT make money regardless of their clientele or mode. ALL transit systems are subsidized to some degree or another including highways and airports, that the middle and upper classes do use.

[gs3]

Look BEYOND the obvious 'first level'.

If a decent, reliable bus system provides transportation for the working poor, so that they actually CAN work rather than live on government asssistance, is that not a better idea? If a bus system lowers the pollution level so that the EPA still allows industrial expansion in our metro, does it not then provide a benefit to the entire community?

Transportation systems do NOT make money regardless of their clientele or mode. ALL transit systems are subsidized to some degree or another including highways and airports, that the middle and upper classes do use.

Why should I look beyond the "first level" when MY tax dollars are paying for the system??? The amount of debt and mismanagement of tax dollars by the local, state, and federal governments is staggering. I for one, am tired of paying ever higher taxes and getting less in return. If I'm paying taxes, I want something in return. Period.

I find it interesting you note "lowering the pollution levels"......but, and a big but here, if the transit system is only transporting the poor, who DON'T have cars, then the pollution levels are not being lowered. Right???? Shouldn't the middle class be the targets for the system? The middle class are the ones in their Honda's, Volvo's and Toyota's who are polluting. Wouldn't we want the middle class to stop driving and take the bus? Trade their single person commutes for the bus? THAT would be lowering pollution.

Give the people a bus system that ALL (poor,middle class, rich) can use.

While I feel for the poor and do give to charity, that is my personal decision, not the governments. I don't believe in forced charity. Either give the people a bus system that works for ALL (and 95% of the middle class would probably agree) or stop wasting my tax dollars simply for a system to transport the poor. If that sounds cold, then so be it.

[beyonce245]

The article didn't say how many of the new buses would be replacements and how many would be expansion buses.

Does anyone know how many buses Greenlink has in service at peak times? I ask because the federal government requires a 20% vehicle surplus in case of breakdowns and buses needing to be taken out of service for maintenance, etc. A quick look over the routes shows that all 13 routes have at least 6:30, 7:30 and 8:30 time points, meaning that at least 13 buses are being used during this time period. That would only leave 2 buses or less than the 20% spare vehicles required.

[vicupstate]

Why should I look beyond the "first level" when MY tax dollars are paying for the system??? The amount of debt and mismanagement of tax dollars by the local, state, and federal governments is staggering. I for one, am tired of paying ever higher taxes and getting less in return. If I'm paying taxes, I want something in return. Period.

I find it interesting you note "lowering the pollution levels"......but, and a big but here, if the transit system is only transporting the poor, who DON'T have cars, then the pollution levels are not being lowered. Right???? Shouldn't the middle class be the targets for the system? The middle class are the ones in their Honda's, Volvo's and Toyota's who are polluting. Wouldn't we want the middle class to stop driving and take the bus? Trade their single person commutes for the bus? THAT would be lowering pollution.

Give the people a bus system that ALL (poor,middle class, rich) can use.

While I feel for the poor and do give to charity, that is my personal decision, not the governments. I don't believe in forced charity. Either give the people a bus system that works for ALL (and 95% of the middle class would probably agree) or stop wasting my tax dollars simply for a system to transport the poor. If that sounds cold, then so be it.

Your logic doesn't compute. Newer, cleaner, more reliable buses will increase the likelyhood of middle class usage. Greater efficiency from newer buses, and the money saved from repairs, will leave more money to create new routes,which would also expand usage. You want a great system, but yet you don't want to spend money to make it great.

Does your disdain for 'forced charity' extend to roads and highways, which are also subsidized? What about airports? Or are you only upset about things that assist lower income residents but not the wealthier ones?

The middle class can use the bus system any damn time they please. There has been numerous improvements in the system recently, let's continue the progress.

[gs3]

Your logic doesn't compute. Newer, cleaner, more reliable buses will increase the likelyhood of middle class usage. Greater efficiency from newer buses, and the money saved from repairs, will leave more money to create new routes,which would also expand usage. You want a great system, but yet you don't want to spend money to make it great.

Does your disdain for 'forced charity' extend to roads and highways, which are also subsidized? What about airports? Or are you only upset about things that assist lower income residents but not the wealthier ones?

The middle class can use the bus system any damn time they please. There has been numerous improvements in the system recently, let's continue the progress.

Really, you don't understand my logic? Let me explain again.

Yes newer buses will reduce maintenance (look at my previous post above....I agree with that fact). Newer buses should pollute less, but come on.....Greenville has all of what, 25 buses??? How much pollution is that, really????

Pollution will be reduced when those commuters driving to work in their cars, by themselves, leave their cars and use transit. Those commuters are the middle class with the means to own and operate a car as they choose. The middle class will not use the current bus system as is. The current system barely runs into middle class neighborhoods.....no airport route.....limited routes to Woodruff Road shopping.....no commuter routes down the Golden Strip.......no park and rides.......limited evening routes........long wait times between buses. Tell me again why the middle class would want to use a system that is not in sync with their needs? Your make a good point above...."the middle class can use the bus system any @#&! time they please"......"can" is not the same as "want to". Yes I "can" use the bus system, but why would I want to if it doesn't service my need? Get it? The bus systems needs to work on targeting the middle class and getting them to "want" to ride. Until that day, it is simply a charity system to transport poor.

Please tell me what does not compute about that logic?

[Greenville]

Your logic doesn't compute. Newer, cleaner, more reliable buses will increase the likelyhood of middle class usage. Greater efficiency from newer buses, and the money saved from repairs, will leave more money to create new routes,which would also expand usage. You want a great system, but yet you don't want to spend money to make it great.

Does your disdain for 'forced charity' extend to roads and highways, which are also subsidized? What about airports? Or are you only upset about things that assist lower income residents but not the wealthier ones?

The middle class can use the bus system any damn time they please. There has been numerous improvements in the system recently, let's continue the progress.

Since we are dealing with public tax dollars, and because we can't have bus routes which serve everyone equally, then it makes sense to offer routes which serve the most people. In addition, it should serve the group which carries the highest tax burden (e.g., the middle class). That's not to say that it shouldn't also serve the lower class, because it should. But it's not right to create a system that only serves such a group.

Currently, there is no reason for the middle class to use GreenLink. People aren't going to go out of their way to take a bus, especially given the perceived (and often real) disadvantage of not having access to their car when doing so. So the bus has to offer an advantage. It needs to offer convenient routes which appeal to many workers, shoppers, tourists, travelers, convention-goers, etc. Currently, the system does not do that because most of the routes go nowhere near those places.

I don't think we should eliminate the current routes, but if the powers-that-be truly want to improve ridership across the system, they will expand the service offered to include additional areas. I don't see how using stimulus money to simply replace the buses currently in use does that. That's just wasteful.

Successful public transit systems appeal to more than just low income riders. GreenLink, while making important strides with better buses, improved signage, and nicer bus stops, will not be successful until it appeals to a broader range of riders.

[gman430]

The same people who want better transit which requires more tax use are the same ones complaining about their taxes being used for transit services. I want more transit myself and I support a higher gas tax to help pay for it. Greenville and Gsupstate, seeing how you don't want your taxes going to transit services, how do you suggest we pay for expanded routes? Money doesn't grow on trees.

Edited July 14, 2009 by citylife

[Greenville]

The same people who want better transit which requires more tax use are the same ones complaining about their taxes being used for transit services. I want more transit myself and I support a higher gas tax to help pay for it. Greenville and Gsupstate, seeing how you don't want your taxes going to transit services, how do you suggest we pay for expanded routes? Money doesn't grow on trees.

Please reread the last few posts. Nobody here is complaining that their tax dollars are being used for public transit, but rather, how their taxes are being used. Everyone is for new buses, new bus shelters, etc., but service must also be expanded to serve new people (i.e., the public). How is a system which only offers routes to a few areas around the city truly serving the public?!?

Besides, the current routes are not heavily used. In fact, some are barely used at all. Perhaps better buses and improved signage will cause a few more people to ride the bus, but we won't see a significant increase in ridership until buses run more frequently and to additional areas of interest. Anyone who expects buses to be full just because of a few new bus stops - and who thinks those additional fares will be enough to ultimately fund new buses and new routes - is kidding themselves.

The new buses just purchased should be used to fund an additional route or two, rather than simply replacing buses already in use. I realize that some of the current buses might not be in great shape, but they obviously work fairly well or they wouldn't be in use.

Edited July 14, 2009 by Greenville

[gman430]

Please reread the last few posts. Nobody here is complaining that their tax dollars are being used for public transit, but rather, how their taxes are being used. Everyone is for new buses, new bus shelters, etc., but service must also be expanded to serve new people (i.e., the public). How is a system which only offers routes to a few areas around the city truly serving the public?!?

Besides, the current routes are not heavily used. In fact, some are barely used at all. Perhaps better buses and improved signage will cause a few more people to ride the bus, but we won't see a significant increase in ridership until buses run more frequently and to additional areas of interest. Anyone who expects buses to be full just because of a few new bus stops - and who thinks those additional fares will be enough to ultimately fund new buses and new routes - is kidding themselves.

The new buses just purchased should be used to fund an additional route or two, rather than simply replacing buses already in use. I realize that some of the current buses might not be in great shape, but they obviously work fairly well or they wouldn't be in use.

There has to be money available to expand the current system. That isn't available right now due to maintenance costs of the current buses Greenlink uses which are always breaking down. If the buses are replaced with newer better ones than more money will become available to expand the system and add new routes due to less maintenance cost. I was hoping stimulus money could be used for operating costs, but unfortunately it can't. It can only be used to replace old buses, build shelters, add park/ride lots, etc.

Edited July 14, 2009 by citylife