Greenville Transit

[mallguy]

but why can't a well-designed mass transit system encourage more dense developments (rather than existing in response to dense developments)?

It certainly can; Charlotte has had a tremendous number of large developments planned and/or constructed near future rail lines. I was involved in this and rail in particular can lead to dense developments. Unfortunately bus lines don't cause as much dense or other development as rail does.

Also, if zoning in a particular area is for standard suburban sprawl (which is often required by zoning laws, which mandate minimum parking spaces per square foot of office/retail space, minimum setbacks from streets, etc.), that zoning has to be changed to allow dense developments, which otherwise are prohibited by law. (So much for the "free market" in transportation and land use that opponents of mass transit claim they support.)

[CorgiMatt]

The best way to encourage taxpayer funding for mass transit would be to run commercials in which restaurant patrons ask what's taking so long with their food, and in which hospital patients ask why their room stinks so much, (etc., etc. y'all get the picture), and have the answer be that the dishes are stacked up in the kitchen because the dishwasher's bus route was canceled and that the patient's room hasn't been cleaned since last month when the cleaner's bus route was canceled. Bombardment with examples of what gets done in the workplace and wouldn't get done by people who depend on buses if the buses stop rolling or cut back significantly might open people's eyes.

[GvilleSC]

There's an article on GreenvilleOnline about the proposed funding for Greenlink's BRT line. Not having a hard copy while I'm at school or online subscription, I have no idea what their proposal was. It says that a tax hike in a tough economy got a cold reception, but I'd like to know some details...

[vicupstate]

In a nutshell: 1/2 cent sales tax increase to build Proterra Bus Rapid Transit (BRT)system. 50% of sales tax revenue would go to mass transit the other 50% would go for trails, sidewalks and intersection improvements. County Council chair Kirven does not see a 'groundswell' of support for this, so the ordinance to put the tax on the ballot is not expected to be approved.

The system would run from the Amtrak station to Fountain Inn. 38 minutes from DT to FI. Speeds up to 60mph on the 'dedicated route', which is the old rail line between DT and ICAR.

IMO, if this is to have a chance it needs to be 50% for mass transit anad 50% to lower property taxes. Even then, it will be an uphill battle.

[Danmire]

Unfortunately I think if this is a case of having to approve it on a ballot to get the funding I don't see it ever passing. I would like to see it passed as I think you have to get everything in place for the majority of people to see the benefit of the system and start to use it.

[GvilleSC]

It's great to see this proposed. (fingers crossed) Hopefully its routing through the Golden Strip will appeal to a large number of people. Furthermore, HOPEFULLY the wild success of the Swamp Rabbit trail will appeal to people, too? Obviously it would take some massive campaigning, but I'm trying to be optimistic. The funding of a first BRT line in Greenville would be a HUGE step forward.

[Galley]

Sounds like a plan. It's got my vote!

[gman430]

Greenlink announced this morning through a Greenville News article that it is planning to expand bus service to Furman University, ITT Technical Institute and ECPI College of Technology without any new funding. Along with that, the Poinsett, Laurens, and the Augusta Road routes will begin running an hour earlier than before beginning at 5:30am while the Poinsett, Pelham, and Pleasantburg routes will begin running an hour later than before ending at 7:30pm. A total of six hours of additional service will be added. PDF file here: http://www.greenvill.../BS16346591.PDF

Edited September 2, 2010 by citylife

[GvilleSC]

This is good news. Although the frequency of routes hasn't increased, expanded service is a good step forward. Every inch of progress counts toward a better system!

[gs3]

Greenlink announced this morning through a Greenville News article that it is planning to expand bus service to Furman University, ITT Technical Institute and ECPI College of Technology without any new funding. Along with that, the Poinsett, Laurens, and the Augusta Road routes will begin running an hour earlier than before beginning at 5:30am while the Poinsett, Pelham, and Pleasantburg routes will begin running an hour later than before ending at 7:30pm. A total of six hours of additional service will be added. PDF file here: http://www.greenvill.../BS16346591.PDF

Good news, but when will service to the airport start?

[GvilleSC]

The Federal government has rejected Greenlink's BRT funding request.

However, the article sheds some light on what the route would be exactly. It's 8 miles, and would contain 9 stations, with transit oriented clusters developed in a 10 minute walking radius of each stop... The first of which would be "University Village" around the Midtown station.

Now, it's up to County residents to approve a sales tax hike...

[gman430]

The Federal government has rejected Greenlink's BRT funding request.

However, the article sheds some light on what the route would be exactly. It's 8 miles, and would contain 9 stations, with transit oriented clusters developed in a 10 minute walking radius of each stop... The first of which would be "University Village" around the Midtown station.

Now, it's up to County residents to approve a sales tax hike...

Too bad county council won't even allow the voters to vote on it.

[Greenville]

The Federal government has rejected Greenlink's BRT funding request.

However, the article sheds some light on what the route would be exactly. It's 8 miles, and would contain 9 stations, with transit oriented clusters developed in a 10 minute walking radius of each stop... The first of which would be "University Village" around the Midtown station.

Now, it's up to County residents to approve a sales tax hike...

That really stinks. It is astonishing to me that this was rejected, especially when you consider all of the wasteful spending that occurs daily courtesy of our federal government. I'm not surprised they they rejected it, but compared to other things the federal government spends money on it should make us all irate.

[gs3]

It is astonishing to me that this was rejected, especially when you consider all of the wasteful spending that occurs daily courtesy of our federal government. I'm not surprised they they rejected it, but compared to other things the federal government spends money on it should make us all irate.

Agreed about Federal wasteful spending. For that reason, I am sort of happy the it was rejected. The Fed needs to stop spending money....period....and let our country get out of debt and back on track. If we want this transit line, we'll get it through local creative financing and partnerships. Greenville has a history of making things happen.

Edited October 25, 2010 by gsupstate

[Greenville]

Agreed about Federal wasteful spending. For that reason, I am sort of happy the it was rejected. The Fed needs to stop spending money....period....and let our country get out of debt and back on track. If we want this transit line, we'll get it through local creative financing and partnerships. Greenville has a history of making things happen.

Good points. I have my doubts that we can get local support for transit like this, especially with our car-dependent society and existing attitude toward public transit. So I was viewing this BRT line as only happening if the federal government funded it.

I hope you're right about our local leaders making this happen somehow. If anyone can do it, Greenville can.

[HomerJay]

Agreed about Federal wasteful spending. For that reason, I am sort of happy the it was rejected. The Fed needs to stop spending money....period....and let our country get out of debt and back on track. If we want this transit line, we'll get it through local creative financing and partnerships. Greenville has a history of making things happen.

I disagree with "The Fed needs to stop spending money...period" type of logic. Although the debt is a very serious problem, simply halting all spending would likely make matters much worse. I'm talking about a long and painful depression, far worse than what we're seeing right now. As with all discussions of federal spending, the key is to cut out wasteful or unproductive spending. Spending that stimulates the economy in a productive way, e.g. that which encourages meaningful job creation, should not be stopped. Investing in infrastructure can fall into this category. If we let out infrastructure fall to pieces, we're going to see increased costs to business and consumers, not to mention higher repair/replacement costs in the future. A healthy infrastructure can support other domestic industries. Personally, I'd like to have the trillion dollars we wasted in Iraq; that money would have been much better spent investing in our domestic infrastructure, especially forward looking green technologies.

That said, I'm not convinced the Greenville project was the type of thing we should be spending money on at this time. I just think it's important to challenge the dangerous, overbroad anti-spending logic we see in times of financial distress.

[gman430]

Agreed about Federal wasteful spending. For that reason, I am sort of happy the it was rejected. The Fed needs to stop spending money....period....and let our country get out of debt and back on track. If we want this transit line, we'll get it through local creative financing and partnerships. Greenville has a history of making things happen.

I disagree. Yes, spending needs to be slowed down with the waste cut out completely but to stop it all together would make the current economic situation go downhill very quickly. Before you know it, the US economy would look like the Depression of the 1930's. Just imagine how many teachers, police officers, fire fighters, etc. would be laid off if spending were completely stopped. It wouldn't be pretty. I do agree though that federal spending for this BRT project isn't a very good idea especially with the budget deficit. That's why I think the voters should decide on the half-cent sales tax increase instead.

Edited October 26, 2010 by citylife

[goodbye]

Obviously the government could not exist without spending. Deficit spending is the problem. We've seen $5 trillion worth of added national debt since Pelosi vowed, " no new deficit spending," in her 2007 inaugural address as Speaker of the House.

“After years of historic deficits, this 110th Congress will commit itself to a higher standard: pay-as-you-go, no new deficit spending. Our new America will provide unlimited opportunity for future generations, not burden them with mountains of debt." --Nancy Pelosi. (Source)

Perhaps this news regarding the rejection of local transit funds is one example where they (U.S. Congress) actually are trying to avoid new deficit spending. If so, then it is about time.

[vicupstate]

SO what are the alternatives for funding now that the Federal funding is not there. With the GOP likely to take back at least one house of Congress, there will be even fewer opportunities in the near future for Federal funding.

I wonder if a 1/4 cent increase would fly. I don't think a 1/2 cent increase has any chance at all. If there was a TIF put in place around the 9 stations, that might augment

funding too.

BTW, more money has been or will be added to the debt by the unfunded Madicare part D and the two wars during the Bush years, than will be added to the debt by enacted legislation under the current administartion.

[krazeeboi]

Part of the reason why the funding request was rejected may have been because as far as mass transit systems go, BRT typically has a less economic stimulative effect than fixed-rail transit like streetcars, light rail, and heavy rail. With this bit of recent news, perhaps it would be wise to truly consider some sort of fixed-rail system.

[gman430]

Greenlink will be adding another new route soon. This one will go through ICAR, Millennium Campus, The Point, Shops at Greenridge, and several apartment complexes in that area. It will connect up with an existing route that goes to Magnolia Park, Verdae, and Haywood Mall. Fares will be free the first year. You can thank ICAR and St. Francis for funding this to make it happen.

Edited February 5, 2011 by citylife

[GvilleSC]

Will this route connect to the transit station downtown, or solely connect to other routes? I love that it's free for the first year! I hope people use it! Is there any word on frequency?

[gman430]

Will this route connect to the transit station downtown, or solely connect to other routes? I love that it's free for the first year! I hope people use it! Is there any word on frequency?

The route will utilize an 18-passenger bus and have a frequency of 7am-6pm Monday through Friday and 10am-2pm on Saturdays. Soft rollout of the service started this past Monday. ICAR and St. Francis each paid $52,000 with the rest of the money to make this route happen coming from a federal grant that last two years. Greenlink didn't have to pay a dime for this. The bus starts and ends at St. Francis Eastside on a loop service that will take an hour or so to cover each time. Right now it only connects to the Haywood Mall route but that could change if Mauldin and Simpsonville service gets added.

[clt29301]

This is an older topic that I have not seen discussed here (sorry if it is just me) but, I have seen some talk about instituting a sales tax to fund transit in Greenville, would that pass the voters in Greenville? Any thoughts? Do people in Greenville want more transit? Also, I saw where the plans were to extend lines west and not towards Spartanburg, why would transit not connect the two largest counties in the upstate?

Edited February 6, 2011 by clt29301

[mallguy]

I have seen some talk about instituting a sales tax to fund transit in Greenville, would that pass the voters in Greenville?

No. Greenville is a low-tax, low-spending area with low population density and no area with enough jobs in one compact area. I dream for the day when there are passenger trains between Charlotte and Atlanta every few hours, zoning focused on shifting development downtown, and an extensive network of bus lines and maybe even a light rail line or two, but that just isn't going to happen in Greenville.