Greenville Transit

[breed]

Now if I could get photo credits for the photo he has posted on the article. If you notice, its the very first Greenville photo of the day!

Wow. That's a big no-no. I'm guessing some admin at the paper took a shortcut.

[goodbye]

Everyone, this is a good example of why it is in your best interest to place a watermark on your work. I personally make my photos available here on UP, but my work outside is more protected. There is no way to completely keep people from copying and using your work when posted here, but if you want credit, take the extra precaution. It is quite cool, IMO, that people read and participate in these discussions, and I personally don't mind being cited in publications.

[NYTransplant]

I'm flattered by the fact that he used it. In fact I'm happy he could make use of it.

I'm guessing that just because it is in the public domain doesn't mean there are limits to copyright protection. Perhaps we could ask Jim Hennigan, he is after all a lawyer.

[btoy]

Excellent article jarvis. Thanks! Looks like your vision has gone public!

I like Jim's idea of the cyclists getting their own road system.

Now if I could get photo credits for the photo he has posted on the article. If you notice, its the very first Greenville photo of the day!

I think the cyclist road cycstem would probubly be the rails to trails network.

Wow. That's a big no-no. I'm guessing some admin at the paper took a shortcut.

Upstate Link ran half a dozen or more photos of mine with out giving me credit about a year and a half ago.

[NYTransplant]

I just recieved a reply to the email I sent to Jim. He explained that for the print edition they had modified the photo, but it did not get done for the online version. He was apologetic and is adding a photo credit as well as a link to the Urban Planet photo of the day thread.

Here was my response:

Thanks Jim,

I appreciate the photo credits, and even more I appreciate the exposure for Urban Planet. As you have seen, we are a group who are very much excited about Greenville. Both what is happening now, and what is in store for the future. We are beginning to think (or possibly even notice) that there are some in positions to make things happen that pay attention to what we have to say. Any exposure that brings a few more comments, viewpoints, or actions is surely welcome. I also encourage you to participate (If you don't already).

[jfl25]

Well put NYT .

[Greenville]

Very well put, NYT. You are very generous to share your photos so willingly, especially given the amount of time you spend taking them. I certainly appreciate all of the photos of the day, from you as well as everyone else. It gives me a "tase of home" despite the fact that I am an out-of-towner.

[jarvismj]

I found this article this evening while browsing the interweb thingy.

Top 10 US cities best prepared for an oil crisis:

I wanted to comment on this because it is a good read, and it will directly affect Greenville, and the rest of the upstate for that matter. Oklahoma City, OK was mentioned as a city that would literally shutdown by a fuel crisis. OKC, OK has a much better public transit network than Greenville could ever dream about, and to some extent, they are further along on the LRT bandwagon than here in Greenville. My question is will it take something like this to hammer it into our heads that we not only need to be on the ball in respect to this, or are we as a general populus of the upstate of South Carolina just so thick headed and oblivious to the world around us that. It just isn't all about LRT though; it's about having an bus system that can be adequate of the demands of Greenville County and the rest of the upstate. Greenville might have a fighting chance at getting that $5.00 per vehicle tax if Scott Case moves from Council to another post, but then again, we're having an election in November, which boils down to if you want changes, you have to make them happen. What happens when we go this summer to the RaceTrack on Woodruff, and we pay $6.25 a gallon. Will be speak up on this? I understand that the demand on oil is at an all time high, but I truely feel that if we continue to not speak up on this, we will continue to pay out the (expletive deleted). And still sit in traffic. On Woodruff Rd, watching the gas gauge move toward E at a frightening pace.

Edited April 12, 2006 by jarvisj3

[goodbye]

I have recently become aware of the push for new electric bicycles around the globe. Greenville needs to jump on the band wagon and begin offering this as a serious alternative to auto commuting to and from work, school, shopping, dining, and etc. Read more about this subject from the Electric Vehicle Council of Ottawa.

One of the pieces of information I received about a new fully electric-powered bike in Japan showed that it has a maximum speed of 90 mph and can travel 100 miles on a 5-hour charge. The price is only around $2000 per bike, and requires NO FUEL. Hopefully this will improve, but it already should be considered a tremendous step in the right direction.

With plans for a bike road system in the talking phase, Greenville needs to get very serious about this.

[NYTransplant]

I have recently become aware of the push for new electric bicycles around the globe. Greenville needs to jump on the band wagon and begin offering this as a serious alternative to auto commuting to and from work, school, shopping, dining, and etc. Read more about this subject from the Electric Vehicle Council of Ottawa.

One of the pieces of information I received about a new fully electric-powered bike in Japan showed that it has a maximum speed of 90 mph and can travel 100 miles on a 5-hour charge. The price is only around $2000 per bike, and requires NO FUEL. Hopefully this will improve, but it already should be considered a tremendous step in the right direction.

What's wrong with pedaling?

Unless its being powered by Hydro or nuclear, you really can't say there is no fuel, but to your point, it is very efficient.

[goodbye]

I personally have nothing against pedaling, but considering that would limit the amount of individuals who would use the system for transportation, this is a serious proposal.

I meant to say, NO GAS REQUIRED.

[goodbye]

I have recently become aware of the push for new electric bicycles around the globe. Greenville needs to jump on the band wagon and begin offering this as a serious alternative to auto commuting to and from work, school, shopping, dining, and etc. Read more about this subject from the Electric Vehicle Council of Ottawa.

One of the pieces of information I received about a new fully electric-powered bike in Japan showed that it has a maximum speed of 90 mph and can travel 100 miles on a 5-hour charge. The price is only around $2000 per bike, and requires NO FUEL. Hopefully this will improve, but it already should be considered a tremendous step in the right direction.

With plans for a bike road system in the talking phase, Greenville needs to get very serious about this.

Here is another nice website dedicated to e-bikes.

http://www.myebike.com

I'm ready to get involved in this.

[breed]

What's wrong with pedaling?

Unless its being powered by Hydro or nuclear, you really can't say there is no fuel, but to your point, it is very efficient.

Something like this...?

ENV

[goodbye]

Totally awesome, breed. Thanks for the link!

[goodbye]

Someone mentioned that it would be neat for travelers through Greenville to see LRT passing overhead. I had a few extra minutes this morning while "working" in Spartanburg to doodle a couple quick sketches of this vision. Keep in mind, I wasn't thinking very hard while doodling.

[adrockc2]

Check this out.

I don't know if this actually belongs here but here is an article from greenvilleonline about a proposed tram running from TR to Greenville. This sounds a little hokey to me. What is this to the county just a big zoo or amusement park?

Edited April 14, 2006 by adrockc2

[RestedTraveler]

Check this out.

I don't know if this actually belongs here but here is an article from greenvilleonline about a proposed tram running from TR to Greenville. This sounds a little hokey to me. What is this to the county just a big zoo or amusement park?

This is actually a bit of a compromise between using the old line for Rails-to-Trails and using it for Rapid Transit and something that has been on the planning table for quite some time.

The proponents (Upstate Forver, the Palmetto Conservation Foundation, Greenville County, the City of Travelers Rest, Furman University, and the Greenville County Economic Development Corporation) of the Rails-to-Trails Trail Network in Northern Greenville County had proposed that the old rail line between Downtown Greenville (near the proposed new park along the Reedy River) and Travelers Rest be paved and that a Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) be operated on this trail along with space for runners/cyclists/walkers.

This TRAM idea seems to be somewhat scaled back from the original BRT suggestions; however, given the population growth in this part of the county, it's probably the best place to start and the service can always be expanded to BRT later.

I think this plan will fly, myself. Even if it doesn't, we're still left with a paved trail between Downtown Greenville and Travelers Rest which is absolutely certain to be popular with the running and cycling communities here.

[adrockc2]

After making the above amusement park comment, I started thinking about sky lifts. How cool would it be to have a couple of these running from the Bi-Lo Center to Main Street, right over the Springwood cemetery. It could add a very distinct "tower" to that area and actually be worked in around the cemetery. I think the elevation is even adequate.

Edited April 15, 2006 by adrockc2

[RestedTraveler]

As with anything, there would be a bit of a liability issue with a sky lift. Heck, the Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World even had to shut theirs down.

However, one would have a great view of the mountains and the downtown skyline from up there.

[adrockc2]

As with anything, there would be a bit of a liability issue with a sky lift. Heck, the Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World even had to shut theirs down.

However, one would have a great view of the mountains and the downtown skyline from up there.

So very true. Stone Mountain and Gatlinburg still have theirs though.

[interestedexpat]

I think Bus Rapid Transit is a great idea! I've read this thread for a while now kind of cynically...thinking there is no way rail is viable in the upstate.

Here are my reasons, heavy rail is just so expensive, even in the really big cities it's questionable whether it's a good investment. I know that the Metro in DC (which is one of the nicest heavy rails I've seen) is perpetually having financial problems and requires heavy subsidies every year. That's in spite of being very expensive. My wife used to pay $4 roundtrip everyday to commute and neither office nor home were close to the end of any lines! It would have been cheaper (cost of car, gas and parking) and quicker to drive. Social conscience kept her on the metro.

Light Rail is more feasible in terms of cost. But I think in the Upstate still too expensive verses the needs it would meet at least for the next 20-30 years.

That's why Bus Rapid Transit on dedicated roadways is a great idea.

(1) It's a lot cheaper. That's for both the consumer/rider and for the government or business operating it.

(2) It's just as fast and reliable. As long as the roadway is dedicated and bridges and/or tunnels are built at road crossings.

(3) It's easily expandable. You just buy more buses. Much cheaper than buying trains.

(4) It's more flexible. Buses don't have to be linked, so they can travel individually. For instance (back to DC) trains are usually linked in 4 or 6 car sets. With the same number of buses you could have 4 to 6 times the frequency.

(5) It could be converted to rail later if desired. Putting in a dedicated roadway would mean the property and path was already in place.

If this were done, It's vital that where the trail crosses roadways... bridges and/or tunnels be built so that buses are not delayed by traffic lights. And bikers and runners are neither delayed or endangered. (Back to DC, that's one of the joys of so many of the trails there, you can ride/run for miles and miles without ever having to cross traffic. You go under or over. Brilliant!)

The only downside to BRT I see is psychological. There are a lot of people who will take a subway/light rail who will never take a bus. I wonder if this could be overcome with good advertising, attractive stations, great security, etc...?

Edited April 15, 2006 by interestedexpat

[monsoon]

The only downside to BRT I see is psychological. There are a lot of people who will take a subway/light rail who will never take a bus. I wonder if this could be overcome with good advertising, attractive stations, great security, etc...?

If BRT is done correctly which means mostly dedicated ROW, stations, and frequent service. Most people soon overcome their resistance to riding over it compared to the bus.

[gs3]

If BRT is done correctly which means mostly dedicated ROW, stations, and frequent service. Most people soon overcome their resistance to riding over it compared to the bus.

True. Seattle has had their subway for years, and it's totally a fleet of electric buses. When you're riding the buses, you never know you aren't on rail transit.....being in the tunnels, everything feels the same as rail transit.

http://world.nycsubway.org/us/seattle/tunnel.html

[jarvismj]

Well, I haven't riden the Seatle bus tunnel, but I do know that the shut it down last year to convert it to LRT. The last time I rode a BRT line, it was incredebly slow, I mean, painfully slow. It was the MBTA Silver Line, and in the tunnels there, they limit the buses to 15mph. What a joke. Plus, once is comes back above ground, the time you spend a light is a joke, and it will make you wish that you were stuck in traffic on Woodruff Rd, on a hot August afternoon, without air condintioning.

[g-man430]

More news about trail; could open by year's end: http://www.wyff4.com/news/8720210/detail.html

-I'm also posting this in the rails to trails thread

Edited April 15, 2006 by g-man430