Greenville Transit

[RestedTraveler]

Awesome! I suppose I should be on the lookout for e-mails from Carlton and Jean in my inbox again! YES!

[Spartan]

If BRT is done correctly which means mostly dedicated ROW, stations, and frequent service. Most people soon overcome their resistance to riding over it compared to the bus.

True. But they are often done incorrectly. People think that they can just throw a regular bus on there and it will work. Problems with BRT are in maintenance costs... Buses tend to wear out quicker, (tires, engine, etc) and they are vulnerable to fluctuations in fuel prices if they run on gas. The other thing with BRT is that if you're going to go through the effort to do it right (which can be done) it will not cost significantly less than LRT- so why not build LRT? Functionally, LRT is not that different except in its flexibility with using the road network (which BRT shouldn't be able to do if its done correctly).

You will still buy ROWs, you will still have to pave its "track," build stations, housing sheds, hire mechanics, drivers, etc, and pay for the actual cost of the busses (which should resemble and behave like trains anyway and are more expensive than standard busses). The main difference is that you are running on concrete or asphalt which will have to be repaved more frequently than rail will need maintenance.

When a public entity invests in rail, developers know that they aren't going anywhere. Development will be more likely to follow an investment in LRt than BRT- thats not to say that it can't happen with BRT, just that it is less likely. Even if BRT is done correctly it still doesnt have the same impact psychologically as a train.

BRT won't be converted to rail, realistically.

Please understand that I'm not saying that BRT can't work. It may indeed be the more practical option for Greenville, but I think that in the long run it will end up being just as expensive as LRT, and it won't accomplish the same goals as well. If we're going to invest in the future, lets do it right to start with.

[adrockc2]

Did you guys see this?

The article says these things are electric and bio-diesel fueled and will move at 5 to 10 mph. At least they look cool.

Edited May 2, 2006 by adrockc2

[Chickenwing]

Did you guys see this?

The article says these things are electric and bio-diesel fueled and will move at 5 to 10 mph. At least they look cool.

So an 11 mile trip could take over 2 hours? Why bother.

[RestedTraveler]

Did y'all see the full presentation?

[GvilleSC]

That actually looks awesome! I wouldn't mind seeing this all over...

[adrockc2]

While I agree the eventual product of BRT sounds good, the tram idea just isn

[goodbye]

These are great steps and I hope to see the LRT plan implemented within my lifetime. I am very pleased to know people are working on effective alternative transportation methods in the Greenville area.

[gs3]

Did y'all see the full presentation?

Thanks for posting the link! I rather like this idea. A nice step above regular bus tranist, until we can support light rail. I don't understand the speed though....is that correct? Can someone explain? Also, the paved right-of-way....one lane.....will it widen at certain points for trams to run both directions, or will only one tram do the job up, back, up, back?

[RestedTraveler]

Also, the paved right-of-way....one lane.....will it widen at certain points for trams to run both directions, or will only one tram do the job up, back, up, back?

I was curious about this as well. The article makes mention of pull-off points ever 1/4 mile for runners/cyclists to get out of the way of the trams, but it doesn't say if theose pull-off points will be wide enough for the trams to pull over to get out of the way of each other. Also, where will they turn around? I'd presume there would be some sort of cul-de-sac at each end with a drop-off/pick-up area?

It's a cool idea. I'm not too sure about the speeds though. I could probably bike my way into town and back from here faster. At the very least, we'll have a paved trail in the end, whether the trams are successful or not.

[Fiddlestix]

What I'd like to see is a conscious, intentional and committed effort to obtain and create rights-of-way for a vast network throughout the Upstate that can begin modestly with hiking and and non-motorized rubber wheeled traffic. Eventually, these could be expanded to include light-rail or separate tram-lines on the routes that are in high demand. In other words, I think that rails-to-trails is nifty, but we also need to think about trails-to-rails -- if we're really going to see light rail happen.

We need to ease into this and a low-cost bike or hiking trail network is the best way to get the foot in the door and obtain rights-of-way that can be converted (or, preferably, expanded) to other more functional uses.

I'm a huge fan of the network in Washington, DC and a once-regular user of the W&OD Trail, the Martha Custis Trail (which was built in conjunction with I-66 and isn't a rail-to-trail route) and the Rock Creek Park routes (which closes to vehicle traffic on weekends -- another option we should consider around here).

For the big picture on the vast network of trails in the DC area, visit this link: http://bikewashington.org/trails/index.htm

The clock is ticking on being able to carve out the key routes needed to make light rail happen. If we wait for funding, it won't happen. So let's obtain rights-of-way for public use now and then, later on, if they are needed to be adapted for rail, the rights-of-way issues will be substantially complete and it will be a matter of laying track and sticking the rolling stock on it (if I may grossly oversimplify things).

That's why trails-to-rails needs to be as big a focus as rails-to-trails. At least in my estimation.

[RestedTraveler]

More information about the Tram:

http://www.gruau.com/english_version/produits/microbus.php

Or, if you prefer French:

http://www.gruau.com/produits/microbus.php

Edited May 3, 2006 by RestedTraveler

[RestedTraveler]

More details from the Travelers Rest City Web Site: http://www.travelersrestsc.com/trails/

[adrockc2]

Great news to hear that the microbus will travel at around 30mph.

Edited May 6, 2006 by adrockc2

[monsoon]

The major flaw that I see with this system is that it is not frequent enough to get much usage. One of the big reasons that people don't ride transit systems is they won't adapt their schedule to take transit if it is just as easy to take a car. I think they need to re-think this system before they tie themselves down to something that people won't use.

[Greenville]

I agree, monsoon. It's great for people to talk about the environment and reducing harmful emissions and all that, but if mass transit is less convenient for people (in terms of routine, convenience) then 98% won't use it. Hopefully, Greenville will do things the right way when/if that time comes.

[vicupstate]

Since this would initially be only on the weekends, the schedule would not be as important. Users would be using it more for leisure than getting to work, etc. If it ran every half-hour, it would probably do well.

[Fiddlestix]

Since this would initially be only on the weekends, the schedule would not be as important. Users would be using it more for leisure than getting to work, etc. If it ran every half-hour, it would probably do well.

I don't know about that. While I understand the premise that weekend users have more flexibility with their schedule, they still want predictability and frequency. Nobody will want to get to a terminal point and find out they're going to sit around for 25 minutes or longer. They want to enjoy their weekends, not squander them at the goofy-looking bus station. If it's going to catch on, it needs to be ubitquitously present -- like the Greenville Drive's trolley. But this is going to be squirreled away, mostly out-of-sight over its route, so it has a much tougher job of being high on people's minds as a way to get from one place to another. Count me in among the skeptics on this unless there's more to this than what I've seen here.

[TREY]

Conceptually I really like this idea and hopefully it happens and be successful. I was wandering if Furman student would use it to come downtown and help make Furman more connected to Downtown ? IMO this could be the beginning of a practical mass transit system for Greenville.

[Fiddlestix]

Conceptually I really like this idea and hopefully it happens and be successful.

Let me clarify that I agree with what you're saying. My skepticism is not about whether this is a good thing or that, functionally speaking, it can't form the backbone of mass transit service that has universal appeal (versus the ghetto-movers that makeup our current myopic public transportation system here). My skepticism is that this approach won't be adequate enough to reach out and transform thinking among those whose minds need to be transformed as to what's in it for them. And without that, this potential backbone will remain just that. Sure, the people already inclined to use this sort of service will check it out, particularly as a novelty. But I don't see the plan -- as it's been laid out here and in the links provided -- bridging out to new markets. And if this flops it could be a big setback. To succeed and realize the potential it has, it needs to be much more geared to practical uses, imho.

[goodbye]

TR needs to become a viable anchor to the north, if this bus system is to become a daily means of transit. I would love to see the old "downtown" portion of the small town be recreated into a unique gateway to the mountain activities shortly beyond. Sunrift is already the perfect type of store for this, but it is the only one currently. More arts and crafts stores, coffee shops, streetside cafes, and possibly a movie theatre or public park with an amphitheatre would help.

[vicupstate]

I don't know about that. While I understand the premise that weekend users have more flexibility with their schedule, they still want predictability and frequency. Nobody will want to get to a terminal point and find out they're going to sit around for 25 minutes or longer. They want to enjoy their weekends, not squander them at the goofy-looking bus station. If it's going to catch on, it needs to be ubitquitously present -- like the Greenville Drive's trolley. But this is going to be squirreled away, mostly out-of-sight over its route, so it has a much tougher job of being high on people's minds as a way to get from one place to another. Count me in among the skeptics on this unless there's more to this than what I've seen here.

As long as the tram sticks to it's schedule, I don't see a problem. Suppose I am using the tram to transport myself from TR, Furman, and Gville for leisure activities. I wouldn't be peturbed at the system if I miss the tram, because I spent too much time in a nearby coffee shop. I WOULD be annoyed, if I was at the stop when the tram was due, and it did not show up until a significant period of time after that.

I think a small start is actually a good idea. I also agree with Trey's comments about Furman. Perhaps the Tram needs to start with a Furman-DT route first, and then expand to TR. Or maybe have a TR-Furman route and a Furman-DT Gville route.

[breed]

I think the key here for success is a connection with FU. While I would guess the majority of students have their own means of transportation, I would imagine that there would be enough civicly-minded students to commit to taking the tram to TR (Wal-Mart/Sunrift/Leapard Forest) and to downtown. But I wouldn't be surprised if FU-generated traffic was limited, as well. But if any kind of strides are to be made in the area of providing an alternative way of getting places, then it has to be predictable. It can come once an hour and still work... provided it remains on schedule. People won't wait for something if they don't "know" when it will come.

Ultimately, traffic in the area is not inefficient enough to make a tram convenient, so it will have to appeal in some other way. The novelty of it will wear off quickly. Maybe there's an opportunity for some kind of touristy tie-in... with the driver acting as a guide of sorts.

[RestedTraveler]

I, for one, am within walking distance of the proposed Tram Trail and I would definitely ride it into town on weekends and for special events. Most of the people that live up this direction are fairly laid back and wouldn't mind riding the Tram as long as it remains on schedule, at least from my encounters with the folks that live around me.

I had, in my past life as board member for my community, suggested the idea of working with our developer to pave a trail from the middle of our neighborhood along the r.o.w. that would connect over to the Tram Trail, just to make usage more conducive for cyclists, runners, walkers, etc., not to mention to make it more safe.

At any rate, I think the Tram vehicle itself should be equipped with the capacity to carry bicycles so that the option is there for people to ride the Tram or ride their bike.

The city of Travelers Rest has proposed purchasing the old Travelers Rest High School from Greenville County for repurposing as a Community Center, Park, and Park-and-Ride/Park-and-Run/Park-and-Walk facility due to its proximity to the proposed Tram Trail.

Also, expect the City of Travelers Rest to begin taking steps very soon to re-invent Downtown Travelers Rest along Main Street (U.S. Highway 276) as a Destination for antique and botique shopping, not unlike Hendersonville, NC. It's going to be an exciting transformation to watch unfold. This will surely somehow tie-in with the Tram Operation.

[tr2greenville]

At any rate, I think the Tram vehicle itself should be equipped with the capacity to carry bicycles so that the option is there for people to ride the Tram or ride their bike.

I was going to mention the exact same thing. There really isn't a lot of people withing reasonable walking distance to the tram in TR. I would definately ride my bike there if I could take it on the tram with me and use my bike to get around once I was downtown. I'm sure that type of setup exists. I just have never seen it in person.

As for Furman students using it to get to TR, I think that would work well for Sunrift and Leopard Forest, but nobody would use it to get to the developing retail corrodor on 25 It's a 20-minute walk from the tram station each way, and the car ride from Furman to Wal-Mart is 3 minutes.