Florence Developments

[flotown]

Re: Project Cardinal, I hope Florence County Progress has planned out their city tour route very carefully. One ride down East Palmetto or East Evans streets and I can hear the CEO saying "I've seen enough. Take me back to the airport".

Glad to see some action on the Florence board again. It was starting to look like the Scranton board.

[Charles Pearson]

...i thought the city of Florence had so much potential when i was teenager. it was our county seat, the biggest town in eastern SC, and it was booming with...perhaps...too many shopping centers and malls and i believe the population went up from 24,000 to over 30,000 in the 70s, which made Florence bigger than Sumter, which I did not like for some reason and hated visiting Sumter, except for that slick-like freeway (bi-pass) 378 we drove pass the town of Sumter with one ugly red-brick highrise enroute to visit relatives in Columbia. But Florence was the only place we enjoyed shopping then in the Pee Dee since there was absolutely nothing in low east region of Florence county, particularly in Johnsonville, and City-County complex building was new and seemed so very tall to small-town boy as I were. They (the old folks) used to say my hometown of J'ville never recovered though from the movie theater closing in 1960s. But my generation (those born 1958-61) figured it was when "5 & 10' closed in 1975 or so and Main Street Johnsonville would have become a ghost-town if folks didn't have to shop in the new IGA supermarket in mid-town and then another called Red & White in the westside of town...which comprised of all of Johnsonville.

still I love J'ville though and Florence and had the best time growing up there and being apart of Johnsonville High's close-knit group Class of 1977 (just 83 of us graduated when we were more than 120 students in 5th grade & the town's two schools were peacfully integrated in August 1969 into a 70% white/30% black Florence County School District No. 5...); and no matter where else I live in the world, Florence county will always be home.

And my Mom still lives in eastern Florence county and there's that family property thing, so I visit sometimes and we remenise (sp?)...

Edited May 28, 2006 by Zahc

[janie]

I was going through some old pictures t hat I saved and I came accross these of Florence. I'm not sure who took them, but it wasnt me.

I recent had the opportunity to visit DT Florence, and let me tell you- its nothing to write home about. However, I was suprised that it is not all boarded up. I rode through at about 5:!5 on a Friday, and it had alot of activity. There were almost no places to park, and there were alot of peope walking around. That said, I felt like it wasn't that safe. It looked like there was some gang activity, as well as some other odd looking people. The downtown looks run down, but it shows signs of improvement. There is a very nice looking building that is occipied by Wells-Fargo which isn't shown in these pictures. Also, the McLeod Medical Center (pronounced McLoud) is downtown somewhere, but I never made it there. It looked like the city cares about its downtown, but that it is just in the early stages of improvement. I don't know if there is an active improvement plan or not- that was just my impression. Anyway, here are the pics:

McLeod Medical Center

The Florence City-County Complex

Spartan: We moved to Florence 10 years ago, and I could not agree with your impressions of the city more. A writer for The Morning News, Thom Anderson, wrote an editorial in this mornings paper (5-28-06) taking issue with you assessments. The fact is, Florence's old downtown is a huge eyesore, and all the new development is taking place out by I-95, or by the new Carolinas Hospital. There was one photo of McLeod Hospital, but it has grown to be a big complex of buildings, including a new +10 story hospital. This is another prosperous area, but it's surrounded by slums. The three aforementioned areas are the hot spots for growth in this town. There are some beautiful residential areas here, but by and large, Florence needs a lot of revitalization in the old downtown area, and this project is in the works. By the way, next to our current theatre in town,(which is being moved downtown in the revitalization effort) there is an applicance store that puts used refrigerators, etc. out on the street. There are between 50-100 old appliances in front of the business, so when you go to a play, you are assalted by this visual pollution, not to mention all the temporary signs on that particular road with neon yellow and orange letters cluttering the landscape! Yes, Florence has a long way to go, but the 5 Points area is really improving with new businesses, restaurants, etc. being built constantly. I've seen photos of the way one of our ugliest roads (Irby St.) once looked many years ago and it was beautiful! Many large trees lined the roadway, but alas, these were cut down when the street was widened. Many of the buildings on this street need to be bulldozed, and trees planted in their place, and this would help immensely. --Janie

[monsoon]

Did this writer, Thom Anderson, mention UrbanPlanet by name? I would be interested to know specifically what he said.

On the subject at hand, Florence is a classic example of what happens to a town when the only growth approved for the area is low cost sprawl that couldn't exist without major highways, cheap gas, and no planning. Downtowns die when there ceases to be a reason to go there, and in the case of Florence that happened decades ago. It's really a shame as I do remember Florence from the late 60s before the area became innudated with generic chain stores and big box retail.

There is no reason to go to Florence anymore, because its sprawl looks like very other freeway exit where this stuff exists.

[flotown]

Here is the Thom Anderson article, for anyone that did not see it in the paper. Good to see the site get a mention. Hopefully others will register and offer their insights and or photos.

Morning News Article

[flotown]

Spartan: We moved to Florence 10 years ago, and I could not agree with your impressions of the city more. A writer for The Morning News, Thom Anderson, wrote an editorial in this mornings paper (5-28-06) taking issue with you assessments. The fact is, Florence's old downtown is a huge eyesore, and all the new development is taking place out by I-95, or by the new Carolinas Hospital. There was one photo of McLeod Hospital, but it has grown to be a big complex of buildings, including a new +10 story hospital. This is another prosperous area, but it's surrounded by slums. The three aforementioned areas are the hot spots for growth in this town. There are some beautiful residential areas here, but by and large, Florence needs a lot of revitalization in the old downtown area, and this project is in the works. By the way, next to our current theatre in town,(which is being moved downtown in the revitalization effort) there is an applicance store that puts used refrigerators, etc. out on the street. There are between 50-100 old appliances in front of the business, so when you go to a play, you are assalted by this visual pollution, not to mention all the temporary signs on that particular road with neon yellow and orange letters cluttering the landscape! Yes, Florence has a long way to go, but the 5 Points area is really improving with new businesses, restaurants, etc. being built constantly. I've seen photos of the way one of our ugliest roads (Irby St.) once looked many years ago and it was beautiful! Many large trees lined the roadway, but alas, these were cut down when the street was widened. Many of the buildings on this street need to be bulldozed, and trees planted in their place, and this would help immensely. --Janie

Welcome, Janie. I agree with your assessments. The area around McLeod is indeed a slum, with vacant and boarded up houses on almost every block. It amazes me that the residents of that area have not banded together and said "enough". I certainly don't expect any changes as long as race-baiter Ed Robinson is the councilman for this area, though. The fact that he keeps getting re-elected is a disgrace.

The Evans and Dargan Street area is an eyesore that needs to be gutted and redeveloped from scratch, I'm afraid. And once it is cleaned up, there needs to be a strong police presence to keep the loiterers, vagrants and drug dealers away. It has been done in many other revitalized downtowns, and it can be done here with the right leadership. And in order to attract business to the area, it must be done. The importance of a thriving downtown area can not be overstated.

As for the stretch of South Cashua from Second Loop to Delmae, I've heard this area referred to a "trashy", "seedy" "Ruby Lane" and "white-trash alley", among others. Seedy works for me. Maybe when Celebration Center opens (hopefully in our lifetime), this filthy stretch will be cleaned up.

[monsoon]

Ahh, thanks for the link.

One comment that I have is that I speak from first hand experience with Florence and not the photos that Spartan posted. (the name ought to give away his hometown ) I grew up in Myrtle Beach/Conway back in the days when Florence was looked to as the big city in our part of SC and we would often make the 60 mile trip to Florence to shop, eat in a restaurant downtown and drive around the city to look at the houses. The place had a lot of energy in those days and downtown was an interesting place to visit and walk around. My earlier comments were based on my observations of today's Florence as compared to that city of 4 decades ago.

[krazeeboi]

Looks like more commentary is to come, judging by this line in the article: "We will get to contributors who spoke well of us in later columns."

[goodbye]

That was a fascinating review of the Florence thread. Thanks for the link.

I often find that photos taken in the winter do not adequately represent a city.

Welcome to UrbanPlanet.org, janie!

[sonofaque86]

Yeah...My mom grew up in Marion and she always talks about when she was a little girl they always went to Florence to shop and have fun...It was the "big city" in the Pee Dee region. lol...Believe me, when I go visit my grandma in Marion, its so boring out there, it feels like I'm in Atlanta when I go to Florence to do something. LOL..

Edited May 29, 2006 by sonofaque86

[vicupstate]

WHOA, lots of activity in the Florence thread all of a sudden. I will post some comments after I finish my housework. Nice to see activity in the thread again.

[Eagle1]

My Florence development friend asked me to post for him again. This is his post and not mine.

The County of Florence and City of Florence vacated its old buildings in favor for the construction of the city county complex back in the 1970s with the idea of later becoming one entity or one central government. Of the original buildings, the City Hall (or Post office as it is known by out of towners) is still standing. The current building is housing lawyers' offices and is still too small for the city to rent space in the current building. The 7 story Florence Title Company Building is currently occupied by the Florence Fire Department Administrations, Downtown Redevelopment Commission, and the Florence Water Department. The old Florence library is being converted for use either by the church next door or as a part of the culture district of the performing arts area. As far as looking at the success for downtown and abroad, the City of Florence has sent representives from business aspects and residential views to the cities of Augusta, GA, Asheville, NC, Wilmington, NC, Savannah, GA, Denver, CO, Seattle, WA and Greensboro, NC, and has hired members from the team that helped redevelop Baltimore's harbor front. City leaders said they wanted to look outside the state because cities within the state are still developing and or redeveloping and the success of current leadership and philosophies of those cities has not yet shined through to warrant them to look within the state.

You said your friend is on the downtown revitalization? Florence Fire Department Administration is and has been since 1950 located at 144 E. Palmetto St. at Station 1, originally known as Central Station. Fire Codes and prevention is located in the little building next door to the station.

[Charles Pearson]

You said your friend is on the downtown revitalization? Florence Fire Department Administration is and has been since 1950 located at 144 E. Palmetto St. at Station 1, originally known as Central Station. Fire Codes and prevention is located in the little building next door to the station.

Wow! Is that what Florence looks like now? It looks almost like a midsize city...I remember when I was a kid I used to love going into KRESS and buying chocolate covered peanuts or cashews that a clerk dipped out of one of a square glass bend and into small white bag that she had measured on a scale, then rang up the bill and served to me; also I can keenly recall the aroma of the store that I now recall smelled like the old Woolworth's here in San Francisco at Powell & Market, which is gone and has become a GAP store...At one point I recall Florence city planners had turned the main shopping street in downtown into some kind of mall...kind of like Fremont Street in Las Vegas. There were lots of trees, and I'm not sure, but I think the block long or two block long street was pedestrian friendly only. These were the days when SEARS and other depart. stores were downtown, and downtown Florence was buzzing with people...

In 1998, I passed through surburan Florence with relatives via I-20 from Columbia and pass Magnolia mall; we drove down a beautiful "Drive" filled with a beautiful tall Pines and Oaks filled with Spanish moss in the yards of beautiful two-story brick column homes, and at the very end of the Drive we passed Tilden Park enroute to a Main Highway that took us south of Florence to a smaller town called Pamplico for my great Aunt Eveline's 100th birthday... Would love to see more pics of Florence. However, I plan to visit it some time in autumn this year...

Edited May 29, 2006 by Zahc

[krazeeboi]

What do you guys think about Florence's mayor running for governor?

[flotown]

What do you guys think about Florence's mayor running for governor?

While it would be nice to have a local guy in the state house, I don't think he has the name recognition statewide to win the nomination. Though Florence is growing, it's no Charleston or Columbia.

[flotown]

The below two images are downtown Florence

The below two show part of the McLeod Hospital complex, including the almost completed 12 story addition.

The next three are the dilapidated Evans and Dargan Street area. Can we get a bulldozer in there please.

Here's the famous hubcap shack on the corner of Coit and Darlington St. It's either a local institution or a filthy eyesore depending on your point of view. Does fit in perfectly in the downtown area, though.

This is Ruby's junkyard at the busy Second Loop /Cashua intersection.

Finally, here's what's left after a long neglected eyesore was torn down behind the post office on Cashua. All Star lanes and the BB&T building are in the distance.

Why I even have some of these images on my hard drive is beyond me:)

[goodbye]

I have to seriously disagree with you about "getting a bulldozer in there." A bulldozer would remove one of the urban tools with most renewable potential - old building shells with street-level pedestrian access. Picture these storefronts completely rejuvenated with unique shops and restaurants people travel from all over the region to enjoy. You've even got a decent start on greenery, it appears. It will take a strong will on behalf of both local government and hard-working citizens, but I know of much smaller and more isolated towns that have accomplished the vision I just mentioned. This is only the beginning of much greater things to come, if the goal isn't forgotten.

[vicupstate]

While it would be nice to have a local guy in the state house, I don't think he has the name recognition statewide to win the nomination. Though Florence is growing, it's no Charleston or Columbia.

As far as the Democratic nomination goes, his opponent is from a small town in Aiken County, so they are even there. Willis does have some support up this way (Greenville), more than I would have expected. I think the state's GOP tilt coupled with an improving economy with probably keep Sanford in the Governor's mansion, but Sanford was looking a little weak at the beginning of this year.

Willis has been a pretty good mayor, and he seems sincere and wants the job for the right reasons, but the demographics don't look good. The Democrats need to have Lovelace embarass Sanford by beating expectations (getting 30% or more). If that doesn't happen, I expect Sanford to coast.

[vicupstate]

I have to seriously disagree with you about "getting a bulldozer in there." A bulldozer would remove one of the urban tools with most renewable potential - old building shells with street-level pedestrian access. Picture these storefronts completely rejuvenated with unique shops and restaurants people travel from all over the region to enjoy. You've even got a decent start on greenery, it appears. It will take a strong will on behalf of both local government and hard-working citizens, but I know of much smaller and more isolated towns that have accomplished the vision I just mentioned. This is only the beginning of much greater things to come, if the goal isn't forgotten.

I completely agree. The "destroy it, and they will come" theory does not work, and Florence is a classic example. Been there, done that, didn't work. The entire 100 block of East Evans was razed in the late 70's. The land sat empty for years. When a few buildings finally did come along, they were suburban in architecture and in their placement to the street. So little of the classic built-to-the-street consecutive row of storefronts is gone, that it is difficult to revive the downtown. This is the same mistake Columbia made that continues to hold back their Main St. Greenville and Charleston avoid that mistake and have propserous Downtowns to show for it.

The 100 block of West Evans and the 100 block of South Dargan (immediately west and south of the area in the picture) did start to attract some antiques stores in the late '80s (right as the streetscaping shown in the pic was put it), but the momentum died out.

[flotown]

The bulldozing comment was tongue in cheek. Of course I would like to see the existing buildings renovated and well kept storefronts maintained with tenants with broad appeal. Unfortunately racial politics may keep this from happening in the short term. Whites won't be caught dead down there now, and black business owners (and many residents) don't want whites moving in, raising rents and taking over the stores. This is not a generalization, either...I work down there, and that appears to be the way it is. Is there a compromise? The city has to start enforcing some aesthetic guidelines as a start. Is it going to happen? I see a lot of friction ahead. But I'd like to see a diverse downtown without the racial tension that is present now.

[Charleston native]

It's good to see that UP's Florence thread is getting noticed by their local media. Excellent! Let's hope more people from Florence can come on this thread and contribute opinions and ideas to enhance the city and help it to thrive. This city has such tremendous potential, and more locals need to get active in using it.

[newflorfordt]

Greetings All,

I may be the first new post to the forum since the article in Sunday's paper. Let me start by jumping into the glass fishbowl and announcing that I am new (as of November 14, 2005) Urban Planning and Development Manager for the City of Florence.

Let me start by saying that I cannot attest to the past efforts of downtown revitalization or the quality of new buildings (except to say that all I have heard is how astonished visitors are when seeing the new Library) as I am neither a Florence native nor an architect, therefore I am left to my professional opinions and personal preferences, see note above concerning buildings, I agree. I might also add about the Library that it was placed in a calendar highlighting libraries across the world.

What I can tell you all is that the City, for the past several years has, in cooperation with the Florence Downtown Development Corporation embarked on a comprehensive journey towards revitalization of downtown. Phase I of the study drafted Design Guidelines (available at www.cityofflorence.com scroll to the magnolia flower and follow the link), which were adopted and made effective as of July 1, 2005, as well recommended hiring of an Urban Planning Coordinator. I am living testimony to the fact that both of those items have been accomplished.

Phase II of the study was a micro level assessment of recommended uses for each block of the downtown and built on the master plan recommended in the Florence 2010 plan. Phase III was recently completed and looked, among other things, a Tax Increment Financing analysis, a historic nomination of the downtown historic district as well as a conceptual streetscape design and an RFQ. The RFQ, I think, requires special mention in that it will be a packet of information about Florence sent to about 250 to 300 developers who develop in downtowns in the southeast.

Currently the FDDC is developing our website and I will provide links to the various phases of the plan for you to digest. I think the important thing is that we, the City, are taking this business of downtown revitalization seriously and are laying the groundwork for developers and others to assist us in the revitalization effort.

I think it is hugely important to mention leaders such as Mayor Frank Willis, FDDC Chairman George Jebaily, the members of the Drs. Bruce and Lee Foundation as well as the citizens who cared enough to attend the many public forums held to obtain public comments on the proper way to revitalize downtown. I apologize if I have forgotten any names.

I can go on and on and I will answer questions as they are posted and I would like to make the comment building on the prior paragraph that the developers we have spoken to have told us that we have done everything right and it will be easy for others to follow. Keep in mind that the Performing Arts Center (A joint venture of the City and FMU) as well as the Florence Little Theater (A joint City/County/McCleod Hospital/FLT/Bruce and Lee Foundation effort) are going to happen and soon. In addition we have an existing restaurant building a new facility and a proposed 60-unit apartment complex coming in the near future as well.

I forgot about the downtown events. Real quick, Pecan Festival 4500 in attendance in year one, 15000 in year two. Florence After Five planned for October. FDDC website will come online soon with more details.

So long for now.

Phillip

[krazeeboi]

Welcome to the forum! Glad to have such an important figure in the revitalization of downtown Florence on board. It's good to know that progress is being made behind the scenes and we look forward to future updates. I think I speak for everyone when I say that we long for the day that the Pee Dee gets as much regional exposure as the Lowcountry, Midlands, and Upstate, and Florence is the linchpin.

[goodbye]

Welcome to UrbanPlanet.org, newflorfordt! Thank you for the great information! I look forward to more interesting discussion about new development and revitalization in Florence.

[newflorfordt]

Welcome to the forum! Glad to have such an important figure in the revitalization of downtown Florence on board. It's good to know that progress is being made behind the scenes and we look forward to future updates. I think I speak for everyone when I say that we long for the day that the Pee Dee gets as much regional exposure as the Lowcountry, Midlands, and Upstate, and Florence is the linchpin.

Thank you I look forward to gaining input on what we are doing as well as getting new ideas. I just read an article on how the Rock Hill Development Corporation is now focused on downtown revitalization. I hope that is going well. I am researching the effects of downtown revitalization on economic development using primary job growth as an economic indicator and the article came up in a query. If you or anyone reading this knows of any articles or research that has been done in this area please let me know.