City expects courthouse 'guarantee'

[vicupstate]

is making the courthouse a scraper too far fetched? i think it is unwanted by mayor and city coucil but i think it would be a nice addition.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From what I have gathered, the judges were the big proponents of going with a mid-rise instead of a high rise.

I suggest that as much parking as possible be concentrated into the larger odd-shaped Forsyth-Pearl-Clay-Adams block. I would reserve the ground level for retail and garage access. Then put the courthouse itself on the two blocks bound by Monroe-Adams-Julia-Broad. This would require one block of Clay St to be closed. Continue with the plans to rehab the old Federal building. Finally, put underground parking in the Adams-Julia-Monroe-Pearl block. On top of that, would be a park/public square. Indianapolis has a garage like that. Later on, a new building could be built in place of the park, when the need arises.

This would allow Monroe Street to remain open. Someone said that it is more important to keep the East-West streets open, than the North-South ones. I totally agree. The city messed up by closing off Church St with the LaVilla School. The straight shot access to the urban core from I-95 was lost, when they did that.

My proposal would allow two blocks ( Monroe-Pearl-Duval-Clay & Monroe-Clay-Duval-Broad) to be sold to lower the total project cost. Those blocks would have some of there value preserved because the direct acces toI-95 via Monroe Street would be maintained.

If the underground parking with park idea is a budget-buster, then another above-ground garage with ground-level retail could go there instead.

[vicupstate]

County reviews how courthouse plans went bad

Many in City Hall are placing the blame on Cannon Design, the original design firm.

By MARY KELLI PALKA and MATT GALNOR

The Times-Union

Twenty-seven million taxpayer dollars are gone.

Duval County is years behind schedule for a new courthouse.

And, more than three years after the first checks were cut, the county is without a design, without a contractor and without a shovel of dirt turned.

Now that Mayor John Peyton has pulled the plug on a migraine headache he's battled for his 16 months in office, where does the city point the blame?

"It would take more fingers than you have on your hand," City Councilman Michael Corrigan said.

The bulk of the fingers around City Hall head in the direction of Cannon Design, the firm that won a design competition in June 2002. In turn, Cannon pointed to Skanska Dynamic Partners, the company that was supposed to build a two-building complex for about $200 million. Skanska's maximum price was $26 million higher, pushing the overall budget to $294 million.

City documents recently released show red flags surfaced five months after Cannon was selected by a city committee and then confirmed by Mayor John Delaney. The first time consultant Dan Wiley saw the detailed plans from Cannon, he said the plans were larger than the ones presented to the committee picking the design. Wiley, who was hired by Delaney, urged city officials to question Cannon about the difference in the plans.

"A larger size would suggest that the competition design presented was at best mistaken or at worst misleading" as to its usable space allocation, Wiley wrote in the November 2002 memo.

Wiley's memo also said, "I would not want to subject the Court or the other judicial system agencies to [a] tortured process of progressive cuts based on gradual uncovering of problems already known to exist." The words "already known to exist" were underlined.

The letter was sent to courthouse project manager Chris Boruch and to then-program manager Jacobs Facilities Inc. Jacobs has since been fired.

Boruch, who is still employed by the city, said he didn't recall the memo and he doesn't know whether he passed it to anyone else. He said November 2002 was so early in the process, that he doesn't remember having any concerns with Cannon's design at the time. He said any plans at that time were preliminary and work was just beginning.

Delaney saw a copy of the memo recently and said he didn't remember seeing it previously. He said he didn't blame Cannon for any cost overruns.

Cannon officials, through a spokesman, have declined to comment. But in a letter sent to the city last week, they said cost overruns were Skanska's fault. They said the construction management company wasn't aggressive enough in getting more subcontractors to submit bids to work on the project. Skanska officials say the budget was always tight for the size and scope of the building in the plans.

Wiley also questioned in the 2002 memo if there would be enough usable space to take the city through its target of 2020 before needing expansion. Wiley said in a review of Cannon's plans, updated in early October, that there wasn't enough usable space in the design to accommodate some users seven years before they would need more space.

Councilman Lad Daniels said there's more than enough blame to go around. But he said the city was doomed from 2002 when Cannon was hired because the firm's design was larger than it should have been.

"We should have been driven by a budget and not be driven by the wants and pretty pictures," Daniels said.

Councilman Lake Ray, among those who last month sponsored a proposal to scrap the design, said the plan was "poorly conceived" and any of the other three firms that lost the design competition to Cannon two years ago could have gotten the project in on budget.

Documents also show that the city struggled to keep the project on budget from the beginning, even before Cannon or Skanska were selected.

Joel Reitzer, the city's courthouse project director, recently released documents in response to a public records request from 2001. Those documents show that the courthouse cost estimate had reached about $300 million, according to Jacobs, in September 2001. But that figure included plans for features that were never incorporated into the project, according to other city documents from the same time. Plans for a child-care center, expanded food court and inclusion of traffic court in the main building had been considered, and priced at about $9.3 million, but then ruled out.

What else was added or deleted from consideration before the design was picked wasn't included in the documents. Delaney said last week he wasn't sure what else the $300 million budget included.

"There isn't any question we struggled with the courthouse numbers," Delaney said. "That's what you do in those stages. You go up and down."

During the first half of 2003, Delaney said, the project's cost estimate reached about $272 million, which was above the budget then of $211 million.

Though he hadn't finalized some cuts before he left office, he had set in place a plan to save money by renting-to-own computers and turning to the state to finance some furnishings. He said when he left office in July 2003, the number was near $230 million based on those planned cuts and he doesn't know how it grew higher.

"I don't know if it's something we should have caught or the Peyton administration should have caught," Delaney said.

Peyton said he inherited a project that was at $282 million, and despite cuts last fall and earlier this year, the numbers kept growing. The breaking point was when Skanska sought bids from subcontractors and those numbers pushed the estimate to almost $300 million, Peyton said. But he said he was losing confidence in Skanska and Cannon earlier than that.

Council President Elaine Brown said she plans to keep an existing special courthouse committee together to investigate what went wrong. If the council finds any of the three companies -- Skanska, Cannon or Jacobs -- that the city fired lied to city officials, Brown said it might be worth suing one or all of the firms involved.

Council Vice President Kevin Hyde said the committee should go through the paper trail and see whether there's any city money that can be recovered. Either way, the city will soon set course on another courthouse journey and needs to know how to avoid the "horrible mess" the first plan turned into, Hyde said.

[vicupstate]

Peyton made the smart call on the courthouse

By RON LITTLEPAGE

Times-Union columnist

Mayor John Peyton absolutely did the right thing last week when he pulled the plug on the budget-busting new county courthouse.

One could argue that Peyton should have acted sooner but that would serve little purpose.

It also would be spinning our wheels to spend a lot of time trying to parcel out blame for the courthouse project, which was supposed to cost $190 million but was approaching $300 million when Peyton finally said enough is enough.

There was much finger-pointing between the courthouse architect and contractor, both of whom Peyton fired, Peyton said, adding "that's not worth our time."

Besides it's now clear that the process was flawed from the beginning and that the Taj Mahal-design that was selected could never have been built for the price voters had been promised in the Better Jacksonville Plan.

The $27 million that already has been spent on the project and that can't be recovered certainly is no small chunk of change. Just imagine what could have been done with that money to help meet the city's other needs.

But sticking with a ridiculously expensive courthouse would have just been throwing good money after bad.

Peyton said last week that he now will step back and begin a process with the ultimate goal of designing a courthouse that meets the county's needs and that is within budget.

The only certainties, he said, are the site (he's sticking with the current downtown location) and the funding source -- $211 million in Better Jacksonville Plan money and proceeds from a $15 surcharge on traffic tickets.

"We will take our time, catch our breath and look at all of the scenarios," Peyton said.

That could mean a courthouse with fewer courtrooms or the use of satellite locations or coordinating the city's needs for jail space with the courthouse design.

Peyton said that he will seek input from all the users of the courthouse and that he will be happy to have his own team in place instead of one he inherited from the previous administration.

"All options are on the table," Peyton said. "I'm in no rush. There is not a courthouse crisis in Jacksonville."

That's the right approach to take and with the decision behind him, Peyton can now focus on other critical issues, ones that he insists he has been making progress on during his 16 months in office but ones that certainly have been overshadowed by the courthouse controversy.

During a question and answer session with reporters and editors from The Florida Times-Union on Friday, Peyton talked about things he has been proud of: working to energize the city's economy and to bring in better jobs, his early literacy program, improving the city's quality of life with a special emphasis on parks and protecting our waterways, increasing downtown housing, streamlining government and improving public safety.

"That's what I ran on," Peyton said. "We're making a difference."

He pointedly pointed out that he did not run his campaign on the courthouse. Point well taken.

[Urban_Legend]

You know, now that we're getting a new design, I wonder if any architects will add jail facilities to it. I can't stand the Bay Street jail, and I know the sheriff mentioned relocating it. But I wonder if they could do it now.

[wolfdawg54]

is making the courthouse a scraper too far fetched? i think it is unwanted by mayor and city coucil but i think it would be a nice addition.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that it would be a better mid-rise because it would show diversity. The Federal Courthouse in downtown is a scraper, so two would be a little too much for me.

[Urban_Legend]

I agree that a diverse skyline is best, but looking at KBJ's design, you can clearly see differences between the county and federal courthouses. So it won't be the same and bland. It's kinda funny, since KBJ designed the federal courthouse and now they just might do the county's.

Here's some more courthouse news tidbits I found today:

[Urban_Legend]

Committee will investigate courthouse deal

by J. Brooks Terry

Staff Writer

Just days after Mayor John Peyton scrapped plans to build a new Duval County Courthouse, the City Council

[wolfdawg54]

I don't know if "taking legal action" against people is the right thing to do, seriously. What they need to do is to act and find a company that will accomplish this successfully.

[vicupstate]

2 councilmen want Monroe Street open

Downtown corridor now fenced off for courthouse construction.

By MATT GALNOR

Now that Jacksonville is starting from scratch for a new courthouse, City Council members have their own ideas for Monroe Street, the downtown corridor now fenced off from traffic.

Two separate proposals were introduced at Tuesday's council meeting, neither of which are expected to be voted on until next month.

One, introduced by Councilman Michael Corrigan, would urge Mayor John Peyton to keep Monroe Street open when new courthouse designs are being considered.

The second, penned by Councilman Art Graham, takes a decidedly stronger tone. Graham's proposal would repeal a 2003 bill that closed Monroe Street and order Peyton's office to reopen the road.

Peyton's office says Graham's plan would cost about $400,000, which Graham disputes. Peyton would like to keep as much flexibility as possible on the courthouse, and therefore prefers Corrigan's bill, said Adam Hollingsworth, Peyton's chief of policy.

"We support any track that leaves all options on the table and doesn't waste taxpayer dollars," Hollingsworth said.

Corrigan said his proposal looks long-term to keep Monroe open, a main gateway to downtown from Interstate 95.

Graham said the city should just pull down the fence, clear the rubble and open the street, despite what Peyton's staff says is necessary.

"I doesn't cost anything to talk about it," Graham said.

Last month, Peyton scrapped plans for the courthouse, firing the architect and construction manager after cost estimates crept near $300 million.

The courthouse had a $190 million budget when voters approved it in 2000 with a half-cent sales tax increase as part of the Better Jacksonville Plan.

[bobliocatt]

Council members want Monroe Street reopened

by J. Brooks Terry

Staff Writer

Taking a cue from Mayor John Peyton

[Urban_Legend]

It makes sense to have that road open, since it connects to I-95. But I will say this: having all that traffic diverted really helped the pedestrian atmosphere near Hemming Plaza. I never had to wait for cars to pass, and there weren't usually any cars on that stretch at all. You could practically play a care-free game of hop-scotch in the street, lol.

But I'm glad to see influential people bringing this issue to the table.

[vicupstate]

With courthouse on hold, time to free Monroe Street

Spinning around the news dial ... click.

Let the chant begin: Free Monroe Street!

One of the dumber things done in the now defunct new county courthouse debacle -- and there was a long list of dumb things -- was the closure of Monroe Street.

Some of us remember the River City Renaissance plan under Mayor Ed Austin and the decision to spend tens of millions of dollars to purchase most of LaVilla.

One of the stated purposes was to clear the area of decaying buildings and to create a grand entrance to downtown so that Chamber of Commerce-types ferrying potential business recruits from the airport wouldn't have to take a circuitous route over the Fuller Warren Bridge to enter downtown from the more eye-pleasing Southbank.

One of the main thoroughfares of that grand entrance was to be Monroe Street.

Then along came the new courthouse and a Taj Mahal design that was more than just a twinkling in the eyes of judges. It grew and grew, necessitating that Monroe Street be fenced off and shut down.

With that budget-busting design now scrapped, Monroe Street should be reopened and the orderly flow of traffic downtown restored.

Two City Council members -- Michael Corrigan and Art Graham -- have introduced separate bills that would do just that.

So far the Mayor's Office has been reluctant to go along, arguing it would be premature to make a decision about Monroe Street until a new courthouse design is settled on.

Baloney.

Mayor John Peyton has already said there will be two givens for the new courthouse: It will be built at the current site and it will be funded with Better Jacksonville Plan money and a $15 surcharge on traffic tickets.

He should insist on a third stipulation as well: The design will incorporate Monroe Street staying open.

Free Monroe Street!

Click.

The mischief that lawmakers engage in often doesn't come to light until long after the legislative session is over.

A case in point is the current dust-up over three pet projects of House Speaker Johnnie Byrd and Senate President Jim King.

According to a report in the St. Petersburg Times this week, King and Byrd not only ramrodded their pet projects through the Legislature -- a chiropractic school and biomedical center named after King's parents and an Alzheimer's center named after Byrd's father -- they also guaranteed that $30 million a year would flow to the projects year after year without having to go through the normal legislative appropriations process.

Most lawmakers apparently didn't know that when they approved the projects and Gov. Jeb Bush told the Times this week that the guaranteed funding source should be repealed.

King told the newspaper he wouldn't have a problem with that.

Uh, then why didn't Byrd and King do it that way in the first place rather than going for the sneak play?

Click.

In a recent meeting with Times-Union reporters and editors, Peyton, who in the past has been reluctant to name names, listed three Jacksonville Economic Development Commission projects that he views as busts: the Shipyards, which is still unsettled; Berkman Plaza, which the owners sold for a tidy profit while taxpayers got nothing; and Adam's Mark, which is not only ugly but has a low occupancy rate.

Peyton also continued his criticism of how the JEDC had worked in the past, even using a description that some of us have used for years, calling the board "a rubber stamp organization."

At least two people aren't too happy with Peyton's recent candor -- Mike Weinstein, who headed up the JEDC for years, and former Mayor John Delaney, who established the commission.

It wouldn't be surprising if they are loading up their guns and getting ready to fire back.

Stay tuned.

Click.

[vicupstate]

The next episode in the continuing drama...

City Wants Investigation into Bloated Costs of Courthouse Project

By First Coast News Staff

JACKSONVILLE, FL -- The city wants to know who is to blame for the bloated courthouse project costs and they're willing to pay to find out. The special Courthouse Committee of Jacksonville's City Council called for the Council Auditor to begin an independent investigation.

They want to authorize the auditor to spend up to $50,000 to find out who's responsible for millions in cost overruns on the courthouse project. That project was later scrapped.

The committee also says the new courthouse should be built for no more than $232 million.

[Jaxnative 231]

Merry Christmas Skanska!

Seriously, with the way the city handles contracts does anyone really expect to get back any of the money spent to date? The city had contracts with both Cannon Design and Skanska. They have been terminated. Pay them both what they are owed and move on. On the next attempt hire competent legal counsel.

A Construction Manager interested in building the project would help as well..

[FLORIDA SKYRISE ORDER]

I feel that Monroe Street should be re-opened until the final decision has been made on the Courthouse.

To me the KBJ Design is the best looking; I would even go as far as to say add a central high rise (480 to 520 feet) in the middle with surrounding buildings as already depicted in the model.

If anyone else is found to blame within City government, they should be immediately fired.

FLORIDA SKYRISE

[merlin]

I feel that Monroe Street should be re-opened until the final decision has been made on the Courthouse.

To me the KBJ Design is the best looking; I would even go as far as to say add a central high rise (480 to 520 feet) in the middle with surrounding buildings as already depicted in the model.

If anyone else is found to blame within City government, they should be immediately fired.

FLORIDA SKYRISE

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

monroe street is already open. As for the KBJ competition design, word has it, it is farther over budget the Cannon supposedly was. Adding a central high rise would only escalate the budget problem. My opinion of KBJ is slightly less than perfect. I saw someone in an earlier post refer to Cannon as Cannon-on-the-cheap. If that is the case, then I think KBJ should stand for "Keep boring Jacksonville" because that's what they do. IMO.

[wolfdawg54]

Well all companies struggle with that issue. I think that we should try Haskell. They could design it and build it. It is worth a shot.

[merlin]

I think that we should try Haskell. They could design it and build it. It is worth a shot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Have you gone MAD? Haskell couldn't design their way out of a paper bag. I am not sure if you have seen some of the stuff Haskell is putting out theses days but I know they are struggling to complete jobs and pass inspections. Take Baptist South and the Baptist project on the Southbank for an example, neither were "designed" by Haskell. However, in the end they will probably take credit for designing both healthcare facilities and not give credit to the designer of record. From what I hear both (more south than north) are in terrible shape for making their move-in dates. It's hard to get a quality product when your bottom line is maximum profit so Preston can go buy more hideous art and display it in the airport or pay for the fuel needed to toodle around the river in his yacht.

[crazy cuban]

Well all companies struggle with that issue. I think that we should try Haskell. They could design it and build it. It is worth a shot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

HELLO... has anyone seen what a Haskell design looks like??? Haskell hasn't won a design award since the late 80's??? and as far as the building of it.>> it should open up in 2040, just in time for it to be obsolete! at this point, let's just add more trailers to the site now and use those as courtrooms, because that is what we are going to be able to afford> and someone explain to me how is it that Glorious Johnson and Jerry Holland are all budget minded all of a sudden, but on the flipside give themselves a nice raise>>> which makes me think that politics is a pretty good career!

HELP.

CC

[vicupstate]

I'm glad the Cannon-design-on the-cheap is gone, but like Urban Legend, I wonder what the next step will be.  Will they turn to KBJ, simply hire an architect and give them a budget, or have another competition?  I seriously doubt there will be another competition.  Each entrant is paid for their designs, so that would be considered a luxury at this point.   

And what will the budget be?  190, 211, 232 or 268 million?  The city council approved $232 million, so I'm hoping they won't go any lower than that. 

My preferences for tighting the budget would be:

1)  Design a building with more floors and a smaller footprint, so that the excess land can be sold.

2)  Less space in the new building itself, with non-core offices put somewhere else, like the old YMCA building across Laura St. from city hall.

3)  Less extravangence on the interior, so that the exterior can still be an impressive one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

monroe street is already open.  As for the KBJ competition design, word has it, it is farther over budget the Cannon supposedly was.  Adding a central high rise would only escalate the budget problem.  My opinion of KBJ is slightly less than perfect.  I saw someone in an earlier post refer to Cannon as Cannon-on-the-cheap.  If that is the case, then I think KBJ should stand for "Keep boring Jacksonville" because that's what they do.  IMO.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Notice that I did NOT say "Cannon-on-the-cheap", I said "Cannon-design-on-the-cheap". The revised Cannon plan WAS a stripped down, budget-reduced version of their original design. I loved the Original design, and wish that it could have been build as originally drawn. In fact, except for reservations about the footprint taking up so many city blocks (and the resulting traffic implications), you would be very hard pressed to find ONE complaint about the Original design anywhere in this forum from anyone.

Unfortunately, the original design was over-budget. So, they cut the dome off, eliminated the wings, cut here, cut there and presented their revised design. There is very little resemblance between what they started with and the revised design. I don't think anyone seroiusly believes the revised Cannon design would have won the design competition. Given the extent of the changes and budget constrictions, Cannon should have been allowed to start over rather than butcher their original design (which again, I had no problem with). In the alternative to that, the second place winner should have been given a shot to do their design within the set budget. Since KBJ was not given that chance (although they requested it), we will never know if KBJ could have done so.

I did not call the Cannon firm itself "cheap". If I gave that impression, it was unintended. If you took the KBJ design or ANY design and put it through the same process, it would have turned into something less desireable than what it started as also. I don't like the revised Cannon design and am glad it is not getting built. My comments then and now are directed at elements of one of their specific designs, not a pot shot to the company itself as Merlin did with KBJ.

[wolfdawg54]

Have you gone MAD?

[wolfdawg54]

HELLO...

[merlin]

It is okay to attack their work but not the individuals because of your ignorance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is not ignorance my friend. I have have worked with Haskell before on a couple of projects and I am speaking from experience. I know several people over there, some are great people, others not so much. I apologize if I offended you because Preston is a family friend. But the built work I have seen dcoming from them in the area is less than stellar.

[wolfdawg54]

Check out the Fort Meyers thread and look at the Vue or View. It is pretty neat. I am a big fan of the San Marco Place as well. Maybe in your opinion their work isn't so good but some of it is fabulous. just check it out. And didn't they design Alltel..

[merlin]

Vicupstate -

Pardon me for getting your quote wrong. But why do you think Cannon Design went through all of the hoops? Look to the owner my friend. They did so because they were directed to. Cannon's design was forced to be wittled down because of the owner and a faulty CM who probably can't even correctly figure their bill at dinner time. I seriously doubt it was their choice to cut of the dome, reduce the floors and the bussles. No where in the competition rules and guidelines did it say that hshould the first place comepetitor not complete the task the second place finisher would get a chance.