2nd Most Important or Favorite city in Midwest

[AvianKeahi]

When you look at the business side of Detroit you have to look at the burbs.  Although businesses are moving back to the city i would say most are still in the suburbs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, you are right. Detroit's downtown accounts for only 3.6% of its entire metro area workforce, while Chicago's accounts for 8.7% and Minneapolis, 9.8%. However in actual numbers it is surprising that even Indianapolis or Cincinnati employ more people in their downtowns than Detroit does, even though the Detroit metro is larger than both of them combined. Hopefully Detroit's downtown will continue to become healthier.

[MrCoffee]

I chose Minneapolis, even though I'm originally from Michigan. Development continues in Minneapolis at a brisk pace. Minnesota is strong for tech industries, pharmaceuticals, education, medical device manufacturing, and financial services. The Minneapolis/St. Paul metro area is also a shopping mecca, with the Mall of America being in Bloomington, close to the airport. The economy there is diversified, and is not dependant on any single industry. The Minneapolis/St. Paul metro area has a population of 3 million people, and it continues to grow.

Metro Detroit has a population of 5 million, so it is bigger. However, the very core of the metro, Detroit itself, continues to deteriorate as evidenced by the news media and information on the internet from people who have been there. There is no mass transit planned in Detroit, no promise of light rail or commuter rail. The bus service has been reduced to a mere shadow of its former self. Inner Detroit is slowly losing its infrastructure to single parking lots, like the one that will replace the Lenox Hotel that is being torn down. The rest of Detroit's history is deteriorating at an increasing rate, with historic landmarks being demolished with no chance of being replaced with anything nearly as significant as what formerly stood at a given location.

In all honesty, I care about Detroit. I care about Michigan. In fact, I will be moving to Ann Arbor from Minneapolis/St. Paul in the near future. I am doing this because I care about Michigan, my family, and those friends in that state who have stood by me for more than 3 decades. The truth is painful, and it grieves me to no end to see the decline of a once great city. Detroit can only be turned around if its current mayor and city council are replaced by people who have a sense of benevolency and caring for the city's history and well being, and wish to restore it to its former glory and add new development that will benefit the people there. Perhaps my vote, however small, may have some impact.

MrCoffee

[Zissou]

Detroits downtown is getting better. There are quite a few new developments and there are quite a few residential projects. These units are filling up quickly and once more people move down businesses and retail will come as well.

[Michi]

that whole tourism in Michigan thing cracks me up, yes it is a large industry for the state, but outstate michigan see's three times as many tourists as the Metro Detroit area. The most tourism in that state comes from the Lake Michigan coast, I believe the city of Grand Rapids which is basically an obscure midsize city, gets more tourism dollars than Detroit. But coming from someone who lives in Denver and has never even been to Michigan, or the midwest really, I'd say Detroit has so much more clout in terms of importance than the other cities mentioned in that list. There's no comparison. As I'm doing research, I see that Detroit's suburbs are wealthier than even Chicago's suburbs, Whats the deal with Oakland county anyway?

Actually, the Detroit region sees the largest number of dollars in Michigan's tourism industry. Even when people do their homework, they can't get their facts strait about Detroit.

Oakland County is where all of Detroit's affluence is now. Basically they are the people whose ancestors built and lived in the great city of Detroit past. In the near future, Livingston County will contain families whose ancestors built and lived in the great county of Oakland...and the cycle continues...

[Michi]

Metro Detroit has a population of 5 million, so it is bigger. However, the very core of the metro, Detroit itself, continues to deteriorate as evidenced by the news media and information on the internet from people who have been there. There is no mass transit planned in Detroit, no promise of light rail or commuter rail. The bus service has been reduced to a mere shadow of its former self. Inner Detroit is slowly losing its infrastructure to single parking lots, like the one that will replace the Lenox Hotel that is being torn down. The rest of Detroit's history is deteriorating at an increasing rate, with historic landmarks being demolished with no chance of being replaced with anything nearly as significant as what formerly stood at a given location.

In all honesty, I care about Detroit. I care about Michigan. In fact, I will be moving to Ann Arbor from Minneapolis/St. Paul in the near future. I am doing this because I care about Michigan, my family, and those friends in that state who have stood by me for more than 3 decades. The truth is painful, and it grieves me to no end to see the decline of a once great city. Detroit can only be turned around if its current mayor and city council are replaced by people who have a sense of benevolency and caring for the city's history and well being, and wish to restore it to its former glory and add new development that will benefit the people there. Perhaps my vote, however small, may have some impact.

Well, maybe I can give your day a little boost.

Instead of believing everything the media tells you and people who have been to Detroit and report about it on the interned, why don't you just take it from someone like me who actually lives and works in the city?

You're not wrong, but you're far from right at the same time. There's new hope for life in Detroit, and I can babble on for hours about things you won't even read over anyway. So, the best thing I can say is that it's good that you are moving back to SE Michigan. Maybe only then can you realize how great it is here and even though it may not be growing as fast as Minneapolis, it is still a better place to call home!

[midwest]

Some of these previous posters continue to mention mass transit. Of course Chicago has it, so does St. Louis...it has for years. In fact the metrolink continues to expand both above and below ground throughout the St. Louis region. I don't know what the situation is in Detroit, but I know Minneapolis is just getting a train style system. The history of St. Louis, its industry, the climate, and it's downtown which continues to turn around still makes me vote for the lou.

[MrCoffee]

Well, maybe I can give your day a little boost.

Instead of believing everything the media tells you and people who have been to Detroit and report about it on the interned, why don't you just take it from someone like me who actually lives and works in the city?

You're not wrong, but you're far from right at the same time.  There's new hope for life in Detroit, and I can babble on for hours about things you won't even read over anyway.  So, the best thing I can say is that it's good that you are moving back to SE Michigan.  Maybe only then can you realize how great it is here and even though it may not be growing as fast as Minneapolis, it is still a better place to call home!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, that does sound very encouraging. Here's something I didn't mention: I like what Ford did with their Ford Rouge Plant, setting it up as both a factory and a tourist attraction. I think other factories would be good to follow suit on that, and it would generate more revenue for the city. That's one of the things that people don't read about on the net, or get from the news media.

You mentioned about Detroit not growing as fast as Minneapolis: That's a big plus! It means that housing prices there are more stable and aren't spiraling out of control. A larger percentage of the population can afford to continue living there and become homeowners. In Minneapolis/St. Paul, home ownership is getting increasingly elusive to all but the most financially fit.

Don't get me wrong, I honestly *DO* want Detroit to put Minneapolis/St. Paul back to a distant third place. You can, and you will, and I have faith that it can be done. Remember, I am a Michigan Native. Keep your chin up, Detroit, and NEVER give up on making things better for yourselves. You can do it!

MrCoffee

[Daytwahs Own]

Actually, the Detroit region sees the largest number of dollars in Michigan's tourism industry.

[MJLO]

I would have to say the city of Detroit itself, even though improving dramatically, is a shell of its former self. So then perhaps it is not the second most important city in the midwest. However the Greater Detroit Metropolitan Area, is definately something to be reckoned with. The six counties that make up that region, would be the 16th largest state, if they were to be put on there own. Thats more people than the entire state of MN. Although I don't know if it would count since the question is not, which Metro area is the second most important in the midwest.

[DetroitBazaar]

No doubt about it- Detroit, IMO. It's been an economic engine for the region for years and still is- Automobile Industry. Certainly Chicago is the financial center and the crossroads of America, but Detroit has its place with over 5 million people in a 4 county area and another million across the international boarder in Windsor. That crossing is the busiest border crossing in North America commercially and quite possibly with teenage kids looking for cheap beer and fun

Peace from Will

DetroitBazaar

[hudkina]

I wonder how Detroit would rank if you included the 5-square mile Greater Downtown area as opposed to the 1-square mile CBD. I'm sure Wayne State University and the Medical Center in Midtown employ quite a few people and the office towers in the New Center area would add a large chunk to the total as well.

Also, everyone knows that downtown Detroit is no longer the business center of the region. That title now belongs to Troy and Southfield. Over 95,000 people work in Southfield and over 106,000 people work in Troy. There's also Livonia with over 84,000 workers and Dearborn with over 88,000 workers. But then again, I'm comparing cities of around 20 square miles to a small 1 square mile section of Detroit. The entire 138 square mile city of Detroit has over 320,000 workers.

[Daytwahs Own]

I wonder how Detroit would rank if you included the 5-square mile Greater Downtown area as opposed to the 1-square mile CBD.  I'm sure Wayne State University and the Medical Center in Midtown employ quite a few people and the office towers in the New Center area would add a large chunk to the total as well.

Also, everyone knows that downtown Detroit is no longer the business center of the region.  That title now belongs to Troy and Southfield.  Over 95,000 people work in Southfield and over 106,000 people work in Troy.  There's also Livonia with over 84,000 workers and Dearborn with over 88,000 workers.  But then again, I'm comparing cities of around 20 square miles to a small 1 square mile section of Detroit.  The entire 138 square mile city of Detroit has over 320,000 workers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you include midtown the numbers jumps to 150,000 plus.

[AvianKeahi]

If you include midtown the numbers jumps to 150,000 plus.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, you certainly could include a number of areas just outside of Detroit's official CBD. But if you did that, you'd also have to do it for every other ranked city. For example, you should certainly include the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis' count if you want to include Wayne State in Detroit's. Minneapolis would then jump another 40,000. But then, where does one stop? This shows how difficult it is to even "rate" one city over another. Each is unique, each has it's ups and downs, and each has it's own pattern of development. If one HAS to rank cities, then we should stick to officially recognized boundaries. But of course, even this doesn't take into account each cities' uniqueness. My post about the employment figures need to be looked at relative to other factors, which is why I noted that while Minneapolis ranks 4th internationally in GDP per capita, Detroit actually contributes more GDP because it is bigger. This doesn't mean one is "better" or more important than another.

It's all good gang. We should be happy that Detroit seems to be recovering even if we live in Minneapolis or Cleveland or St. Louis or Bismarck. This can't be a real competition, because everyone would lose in some ways and win in others. And you could never arrive at a single answer for the question originally posed in this poll. Detroit is more important than Chicago when it comes to automobile manufacturing. Minneapolis is more important than Detroit when it comes to theater. St. Louis is more important than Minneapolis in brewing, and Chicago is more important than St. Louis in tall buildings.

So it simply comes down to your paricular preferences. And that's really the only criteria you can use. So then, the more interesting question is WHY a particular city is your favorite, or 2nd favorite, or 3rd or 4th? What turns you on about Detroit, or Cincinnati or Peoria?

[Zissou]

I see the point your making but how is Minneapolis more important than Detroit in regards to theater? Outside of New York City Detroit has the most theaters and seats in the country. Theater and culture is very important to this area.

[AvianKeahi]

I see the point your making but how is Minneapolis more important than Detroit in regards to theater?  Outside of New York City Detroit has the most theaters and seats in the country.  Theater and culture is very important to this area.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm using disparate examples here. These comparisons were used to illustrate my point, not to make claims. But yes, theater is a murky comparison because the measurement of something like this cannot be easily derived from any single number. And to be straight, we are talking about live theater, not cinema. However my comment is based on the following short list of observations:

The Twin Cities have approximately 100 theater companies, including three that have won the Tony Award for outstanding Reghional Theater (The Guthrie, The Children's Theater and this year, Theatre de la Jeune Lune). It is where Broadway-bound shows like "The Lion King," "Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat," "Victor/Victoria" and most recently "A Year with Frog and Toad" got their start. Part of that is because of the connection between New York-based JuJamCyn Theaters and Minneapolis. On any given evening, there are roughly 15-30 separate plays and productions going on.

The Tyrone Guthrie is the first and largest regional theater in North America and will be opening their new $125 million facility next season. the Children's Theater is the largest of it's kind and just finished a 45,000 square foot expansion. The Chanhassen Theatre is the largest dinner theatre complex in the world and features a 365-day season.

According to the Performing Arts Research Coalition, 73% of Twin Cities area residents attend the performing arts, exceeded only by Boston (78%) and Washington D.C. (77%). The U.S. average is 39%.

There are 30 major theater performance venues in the Twin Cities ranging from 100-3000 seats.

The Minnesota Fringe Festival has rapidly grown to the 4th largest in North America last year and is expected to become the largest in two years.

Regarding the number of theatre seats outside of New York, Houston actually makes that claim, not Detroit:

http://www.visithoustontexas.com/arts_and_....asp?pageid=136

[Zissou]

My mistake I looked it up. Detroit has the most seats east of the Mississippi outside of New York. Detroit also has the number one theater in the country and that is the Fox Theater.

[Detroit_Luveur]

FYI, Detroit is experiencing a great boom in redevelopment. There is most definitely interest in the city again. Plus, the Super Bowl coming in '06 is definitely putting the city in momentum for what can come after it.

While Detroit might have some work to do aesthetically and otherwise (which it is doing); Most people wouldn't put Minneapolis and Detroit on the same caliber.

There are many cities (Washington, DC; Atlanta; Brooklyn, etc.) that 10, even 5 years ago resembled Detroit of today. The future is nothing but bright for Detroit. If you need proof go over to DetroitYes! and look at all the developents. This is a critical time in Detroit history. And while it doesn't deserve the pity-case it's been given. I think the next 5 years will surely be a huge transformation period.

[AvianKeahi]

My mistake I looked it up.  Detroit has the most seats east of the Mississippi outside of New York.  Detroit also has the number one theater in the country and that is the Fox Theater.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's great! I would have thought Chicago had more.

[Michi]

Detroit is easily the most important city in the Midwest after Chicago, but St. Louis is easily the most urban and has the best history.

I'll give you urban, but challenge you history.

[Michi]

I would have to say the city of Detroit itself, even though improving dramatically, is a shell of its former self.  So then perhaps it is not  the second most important city in the midwest.  However the Greater Detroit Metropolitan Area, is definately something to be reckoned with.  The six counties that make up that region, would be the 16th largest state, if they were to be put on there own.  Thats more people than the entire state of MN. Although I don't know if it would count since the question is not, which Metro area is the second most important in the midwest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, it does count because surrounding metropolitan areas are products of the central city. On a given day, it's not just Detroiters IN Detroit, it's the possiblility of up to 5 million people in, out, about, and around the city of Detroit (and Minneapolis/St. Louis/Cleveland) that contribute to a "shell-of-a-city's" wellbeing.

[hudkina]

I really don't understand why people think there's a solid wall between Detroit and its suburbs. Sure it is a highly segregated community, but people do go back and forth between the city and the suburbs on a regular basis.

Also, just because an area is not technically in the city doesn't mean it's not just as "Detroit" as any neighborhood in the city. For instance, Royal Oak is technically outside the borders of Detroit, but does that mean it shouldn't be included in the things that make Detroit a great city? The same for the Grosse Pointes or Hamtramck or Dearborn, etc. To me these are just as much neighborhoods of Detroit as those that were annexed by the city in years past.

So you can't go and say oh Detroit sucks, but it has great suburbs because Detroit and its suburbs are all the same.

[Michi]

^Exactly...Imagine the boundaries of Detroit city encompassing all 5 million people. It's like that now, just like any city. The metropolitan area is just an extension of the city itself.

[MJLO]

I agree completely, however ask someone "Auburn Hills" where they are from, or make the mistake of calling "Farmington Hills " Detroit, and you will find out just how WRONG, and ignorant you are

(I know this from personal experience, as I was abused for lumping metro detroit as one region, and not giving credit to the obscure bedroom communities for existing on their own. To someone who is not from there it's all Detroit, Detroit is the core city and the reason those suburbs thrive. However to someone who's from there " thems fightin words!")

[Zissou]

Actually i sort of lump all the burbs as Detroit and I live in the burbs. I think its a state of mind. Ive found that many from the burbs dont really want to be associated with Detroit and those are the people who will correct you and get offended. Whenever i go somewhere I always say im from Detroit. As much as the uppity folk in Birmingham want to disassociate themselves from the city they are a part of it. I think of Detroit as the whole region and it really is.

[Michi]

Right, I think within the state people will say which individual metro community they are from, but find a metropolitan Detroiter traveling out of state, they will tell you they are from Detroit. Plus, this sparks interest because "nobody's from Detroit" BOOGY BOOGY BOOGY!...Suburbanites are arrogant like that, and will loathe in the attention.