2nd Most Important or Favorite city in Midwest

[monsoon]

Sometimes you need to look past the population charts.  Agree or disagree?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well if you do that, then I'm not sure that you conld even consider Chicago the Midwest's #1 city. BTW I did not make that a quote that you believe I made.

[bobliocatt]

When people refer to Chicago as America's second city it's because Chicago is a city, unlike LA.  I'm still interested in how "LA in many ways is more of a city then New York"?  You did say that, right?  I can't think of one way, let alone many.  As I've said before, San Fran is by FAR the best California city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

From my visit, which was back in the mid 1990's, LA is very much a city and a dense one, at that. It may not have as much old time grit like Chicago or NYC, but, like Miami, it sure holds its own, in terms of overall density.

[bobliocatt]

So back to the discussion at hand....I think Detroit is still the second city of the Midwest. Although down and out, from its previous highs, the Auto industry still packs a powerful puch. Other than that, I'd say the Twin Cities are right up there in that discussion too. That metro is defiantely an underrated and sometimes overlooked place.

[RustTown]

Wait, you guys do know that "Second City" just doesn't refer to population but also refers to the quality of the cultural and infastructure qualities of a "Second City" right? Chicago, in many regards and probably overall, is still America's second city, and in some regards LA is.

As for the Midwest, the second most important city is kind of an ambigious question. While Minneapolis may be the most stable and most healthy, Detroit economically and culturally is still the second most important, whic really speaks to it's power especially after falling as far as it did.

[thewack]

Well, clearly it isn't Cincinnati since it is misspelled in the poll above.

[Jklug]

DETROIT!!! Great sports, borders Canada, and CONEY DOGS ARE EVERYWHERE!!

[timalucas]

Actually America's "Second City" is Los Angeles.  Chicago is a distant third.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That depends on what you mean by "LA" Chicago is a far bigger city than LA on it's own, but LA has a larger Metro. It's still a stretch to call Chicago a "Distant third" however! LA's urban core is nothing!

[midwest]

I think you could argue St. Louis and Minneapolis tie for the ranking. I also agree Detroit is important, but something must be done to improve the city's image or it's importance will slip. Back to STL and MSP...I actually think you could argue St. Louis is slightly more important than MSP. STL is home to a huge defense industry (BOEING), Edward Jones, AG Edwards, the world's largest brewery (ABusch), Express Scripts, just to name a few. The sports teams are great, the downtown is coming back at full force, just hosted the FINAL 4 and it went very well...and the momentum just keeps picking up. The weather is better than MSP...and if given a choice I think more people would choose warmer over colder (that's just a thought). St. Louis still has all 4 seasons, but winters are not nearly as extreme. Also, I know I'm going to get flack...but the St. Louis skyline is recognized world wide...MSP is not. Yes, MSP is impressive, but the Arch identifies STL to a world audience because of its landmark status. I like both city's but those are the reasons I'm picking St. Louis as 2nd most important.

[Mike D]

Looking at the numbers, I would say Detroit because of its population and media market size. Both are second only to Chicago in the Midwest. And don't forget Detroit's contribution to the music world in the 60's.

But you also have to remember that Detroit got so far ahead of the other cities because of the American auto industry. But that's what made DET's economy. They relied too much on that. And the auto industry ain't what it used to be. Like Midwest said, if DET and MI do little to nothing to change the perception of Detroit to the rest of the country, it's going to slip even further down. And its importance will sip as well. They need to get aggressive on fighting crime and work really hard to attract businesses and people to the city (the actual city of Detroit, that is)

Like you said, Midwest - St. Louis's downtown is coming back really strong and the employers you listed are quite diverse. I would personally like to check out St. Louis one of these days to see what's going on there. If DET continues to decline, STL, could easily swoop in and become the second most important city in the Midwest. For now, DET is second in importance, but not by much.

[Daytwahs Own]

Looking at the numbers, I would say Detroit because of its population and media market size. Both are second only to Chicago in the Midwest. And don't forget Detroit's contribution to the music world in the 60's.

But you also have to remember that Detroit got so far ahead of the other cities because of the American auto industry. But that's what made DET's economy. They relied too much on that. And the auto industry ain't what it used to be. Like Midwest said, if DET and MI do little to nothing to change the perception of Detroit to the rest of the country, it's going to slip even further down. And its importance will sip as well. They need to get aggressive on fighting crime and work really hard to attract businesses and people to the city (the actual city of Detroit, that is)

Like you said, Midwest - St. Louis's downtown is coming back really strong and the employers you listed are quite diverse. I would personally like to check out St. Louis one of these days to see what's going on there. If DET continues to decline, STL, could easily swoop in and become the second most important city in the Midwest. For now, DET is second in importance, but not by much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

St. Louis has lost more people than Detroit percentage wise (about 2/3s vs about 1 half) and is actually losing people faster than Detroit. Crime is just as much a problem in StL as it is Detroit.

[midwest]

Not to make excuses, however there are some things to keep in mind regarding St. Louis. The St. Louis city limits are small, the county is huge. Crime stats in the county are low, but spike in the inner city...there's not a huge area to spread out the stats...thus giving an impression of a high crime rate. I do not know if this is the same problem in Detroit. Also, regarding population loss there are some things to consider. The city is seeing a record number of construction permits for both housing and retail. It's a boom unlike anything in recent years. I do not want to pretend problems don't exist, however things are certainly moving in the right direction...not something we could say 10 years ago. In addition, even when the city was experiencing a population loss, the region was still growing...people were not leaving the metro area.

[JivecitySTL]

Detroit is easily the most important city in the Midwest after Chicago, but St. Louis is easily the most urban and has the best history.

[Skyline920]

Because Chicago is a Icon of the Midwest. It's very Energetic everything is big in chicago. City of the Big shoulders is one of it's personality. 2.8 million and a metro of 7 million. Although only Detroit comes 2nd in population of the midwest.

[Skyline920]

HEy Saint Louis. That's Hometown to several hip hop artists. Nelly, Murphy Lee, and Chingy of course.

[hudkina]

Detroit is obviously the answer and that's not hometown bias. Minneapolis is nice and so are St. Louis and Cleveland, but none of them come close to Detroit when you take all things into account.

People don't realize this, but the Detroit CSA is bigger than the Minneapolis and Cincinnati CSAs combined. Minneapolis (3.3 million) + Cincinnati (2.1 million) = Detroit (5.4 million)

Also, Detroit is in no danger of being surpassed by Minneapolis any time soon. The Minneapolis CSA is only gaining about 20,000 more people than the Detroit CSA each year. At that pace, it would take 105 years for Minneapolis to pass Detroit.

[gs3]

Minneapolis definitely!

[midwest]

If 2nd most important simply means Detroit, than yes Detroit is the answer. However I do believe more people nationwide would choose city's like St. Louis, Minneapolis, and Kansas City if given an option over Detroit. They are much cleaner, are much easier to manage.

[JivecitySTL]

I agree that no Midwest cities (other than Chicago) can touch Detroit when it comes to economic might and population, but quite honestly, almost all of them surpass Detroit in other important urban qualities. Detroit is extremely car-dependent, moreso than many Midwest cities. It also has a comparitively small tourism industry. As for the health of downtown, Detroit trails most other cities in attractiveness and livability. As much as I truly love Detroit (from the bottom of my heart), it simply is not a very inviting city.

[hudkina]

The Detroit region gets a lot of tourism. Tourism is Michigan's second largest industry (you can guess the first) and in fact Michigan is the most visited four-season state as far as tourism.

[ChristianDean]

Yeah if I had to guess, based on sheer size and industry I would say Detroit is pretty important. There are so many cities in the midwest with great importance and many are anchors for their own parts of the region.

[I-275westcoastflorida]

I say Detroit because of the auto industry and contribution to music in the past and now, also cause of its history. I think the 3rd would be St.Louis cause of the history and other contributions.

[MJLO]

that whole tourism in Michigan thing cracks me up, yes it is a large industry for the state, but outstate michigan see's three times as many tourists as the Metro Detroit area. The most tourism in that state comes from the Lake Michigan coast, I believe the city of Grand Rapids which is basically an obscure midsize city, gets more tourism dollars than Detroit. But coming from someone who lives in Denver and has never even been to Michigan, or the midwest really, I'd say Detroit has so much more clout in terms of importance than the other cities mentioned in that list. There's no comparison. As I'm doing research, I see that Detroit's suburbs are wealthier than even Chicago's suburbs, Whats the deal with Oakland county anyway?

[Zissou]

All of Michigans movers and shakers live in Oakland county. Its really a nice place. Most people dont realize how nice the Detroit Metropolitan area really is because they just associate it with Detroit.

[AvianKeahi]

However when it comes to International Gross Domestic Product, the highest per-capita contributors (1998 figures, so they are a bit out of date) are Minneapolis/St. Paul (ranking 4th Internationally), followed by Chicago (12th), Milwaukee (22nd), St. Louis (24th), Cleveland (27th), Columbus (29th), Cincinnati (31st), Kansas City (33rd), and then Detroit (36th). (See http://www.demographia.com/db-intlgdp-metro.htm for details.)

Regarding business, the employment in Midwestern Central Business Districts is:

1. Chicago (336,300)

2. Minneapolis/St.Paul (128,400 in Mpls, 40,300 in St.Paul)

3. Cleveland (107,000)

4. St. Louis (101,700)

5. Milwaukee (86,500)

6. Indianapolis (85,800)

7. Cincinnati (77,200)

8. Detroit (74,300)

These numbers serve to indicate the general business health of a downtown region. In actual metropolitan employment, the numbers rank right along with the region's population of course, with Chicago at #1, Detroit at #2, the Twin Cities at #3, and Cleveland at #4. (See http://www.demographia.com/db-intlgdp-metro.htm for details.)

So Detroit, with it's larger population still contributes approximately 131 billion dollars to the GDP even though it's ranked well down on the list of GDP per capita. The Twin Cities contribute approximately 100 billion dollars.

[Zissou]

When you look at the business side of Detroit you have to look at the burbs. Although businesses are moving back to the city i would say most are still in the suburbs.