Downtown Columbia Growing

[Spartan]

Thanks for that information BIDmark. I hope that CCP is able to expand to cover the whole of downtown. It sounds almost exactly like Center City Partners' mission for Uptown/SouthEnd in Charlotte, and they do a lot of good work to promote and enhance Uptown.

[CorgiMatt]

Today's The State newspaper says development in downtown Columbia has come to a halt, except for what's already under construction, and that things won't pick up again until the economy does. Monsoon says we can't link to articles or I would. Center Vista is on hold.

[Spartan]

Dude, you can link to articles. We actually encourage that. The point monsoon is making is that we don't want one-liners and links without some sort of comment about the context of the article and why it is relevant to this discussion.

Some people like to make posts like this:

"Center Vista is on hold, here's a link to the article"

Thats the kind of post we want to avoid.

[Ronak]

I believe this is the article he was talking about:

http://www.thestate.com/local/story/678031.html

The article is about construction in downtown altogether slowing, not just Center Vista. It's actually a pretty good summary of how a lack of available funds and a bad economy have affected the city...at least good in terms of content...not in terms of how it makes me feel.

[Spartan]

Yeah. Its unfortunately reflective of the entire national economy right now.

[growingup15]

i seen a nice plan for the city.The innovista plan is nice everyone should check it out. I'm just hoping that the economy will shap up so the city can go ahead with this project in the near future. Heres the innovista super project http://www.columbia.sc.gov/tasks/sites/coc..._2007_08_01.pdf

[Spartan]

Please discuss Innovista plans in the appropriate thread. You can view it here: Innovista. Thanks.

[growingup15]

Please discuss Innovista plans in the appropriate thread. You can view it here: Innovista. Thanks.

K thanks

[CorgiMatt]

An article from The Washington Post Monday about gentrification in D.C. reveals that downtown Columbia's 29202 zip code was the fastest-gentrifying place in the nation from 2000 to 2010. Usually "gentrification" is another way of saying "whitening," and the article does use the latter word. Are there any opinions on what the implications are or have been over the last decade for downtown Columbia? Are the changing demographics reflective of the end of white flight? Are non-white people truly being priced out and thus forced out of downtown because of housing prices? Has black flight for highly rated schools replaced white flight as the new demographic story? Or have blacks largely stayed put in downtown Columbia while whites have just flocked in to join them? (Note: the white population went from about a third to nearly three-fourths of downtown's population during that time period.) When I copied and pasted the article it didn't create any links. The article is in the local section of The Washington Post. Enter "gentrification" in the search window.

Via Michael J. Petrilli at the Fordham Institute’s Flypaper education blog comes a list of the 25 U.S. Zip codes which saw the greatest gain in white population share from 2000 to 2010.

In the absence of 2010 economic data, which is yet to be released, Petrilli uses the relative change in white population to gauge the impact of gentrification.

Three of the top 25 are in D.C. — only Brooklyn, N.Y., with four Zips, is more represented on the list. The particular D.C. Zip codes identified will come as little surprise to city denizens:

No. 10: 20001 — Shaw/Bloomingale/LeDroit Park/Truxton Circle/Pleasant Plains — 5.6 percent non-Hispanic white in 2000 to 32.8 percent in 2010.

No. 14: 20010 — Mount Pleasant/Columbia Heights/Park View — 22 percent non-Hispanic white in 2000 to 46.7 percent in 2010.

No. 19: 20005 — Logan Circle/Downtown — 47.3 percent non-Hispanic white in 2000 to 68.4 percent in 2010.

Topping the list are a several unexpected locales — Columbia, S.C., Chattanooga, Tenn., and Roanoke, Va. Petrilli writes that gentrification “is not a phenomenon limited to a few of our great coastal cities. These gentrifying neighborhoods are literally all over the map.”

[CorgiMatt]

Downtown Columbia is only 100 jobs shy of the number it had before SCANA took its 900 employees to the suburbs.

http://www.columbiabusinessreport.com/news/44333-downtown-recovering-from-scana-rsquo-s-departure?rss=0

[krazeeboi]

An article from The Washington Post Monday about gentrification in D.C. reveals that downtown Columbia's 29202 zip code was the fastest-gentrifying place in the nation from 2000 to 2010. Usually "gentrification" is another way of saying "whitening," and the article does use the latter word. Are there any opinions on what the implications are or have been over the last decade for downtown Columbia? Are the changing demographics reflective of the end of white flight? Are non-white people truly being priced out and thus forced out of downtown because of housing prices? Has black flight for highly rated schools replaced white flight as the new demographic story? Or have blacks largely stayed put in downtown Columbia while whites have just flocked in to join them? (Note: the white population went from about a third to nearly three-fourths of downtown's population during that time period.) When I copied and pasted the article it didn't create any links. The article is in the local section of The Washington Post. Enter "gentrification" in the search window.

Via Michael J. Petrilli at the Fordham Institute’s Flypaper education blog comes a list of the 25 U.S. Zip codes which saw the greatest gain in white population share from 2000 to 2010.

In the absence of 2010 economic data, which is yet to be released, Petrilli uses the relative change in white population to gauge the impact of gentrification.

Three of the top 25 are in D.C. — only Brooklyn, N.Y., with four Zips, is more represented on the list. The particular D.C. Zip codes identified will come as little surprise to city denizens:

No. 10: 20001 — Shaw/Bloomingale/LeDroit Park/Truxton Circle/Pleasant Plains — 5.6 percent non-Hispanic white in 2000 to 32.8 percent in 2010.

No. 14: 20010 — Mount Pleasant/Columbia Heights/Park View — 22 percent non-Hispanic white in 2000 to 46.7 percent in 2010.

No. 19: 20005 — Logan Circle/Downtown — 47.3 percent non-Hispanic white in 2000 to 68.4 percent in 2010.

Topping the list are a several unexpected locales — Columbia, S.C., Chattanooga, Tenn., and Roanoke, Va. Petrilli writes that gentrification “is not a phenomenon limited to a few of our great coastal cities. These gentrifying neighborhoods are literally all over the map.”

We've since found out that this study is severely flawed; the 29202 zip code is exclusive to the post office on Assembly Street.

Downtown Columbia is only 100 jobs shy of the number it had before SCANA took its 900 employees to the suburbs.

http://www.columbiab...departure?rss=0

Wow, this is awesome news. And what's even better is "Downtown’s comeback didn’t happen all at once with a new company moving hundreds of workers into a glass-and-steel tower. Instead, it has come in increments of a handful to a dozen workers joining law firms, health care companies, insurance firms, information technology businesses and banks." It's good to see a variety of companies and industries contributing to the comeback. If the Palmetto Center gets converted to dorms and this sort of growth continues, it's possible another tower may be joining the skyline in the near future.

[Spartan]

I still hope that the Palmetto Center is not converted into dorms. What a terrible idea. As much as I support residential density, it makes no sense in that building.

[krazeeboi]

At first I wasn't really for it, but now I think it's a win/win. I think if the private firm can make it work in that building, then by all means go for it. This will create a lot of pedestrian activity and energy on Main, take a nice chunk of office space off the market, and maybe even open the door for a new office tower to get built. I can imagine more retail and restaurants coming to Main with this population to support it, even if it's not a permanent year-round population. Get the destinations there and that will create its own demand even apart from the students (e.g., Five Points).

[johnpro318]

At first I wasn't really for it, but now I think it's a win/win. I think if the private firm can make it work in that building, then by all means go for it. This will create a lot of pedestrian activity and energy on Main, take a nice chunk of office space off the market, and maybe even open the door for a new office tower to get built. I can imagine more retail and restaurants coming to Main with this population to support it, even if it's not a permanent year-round population. Get the destinations there and that will create its own demand even apart from the students (e.g., Five Points).

Plus the building is Class C office space if I remember correctly which is hard to get businesses to move into unless a lot of money is spent for retrofitting.

We need more bodies near Main Street and until the Vista goes through another boom and many surface lots become substantial projects (dozens to hundreds of units), this is the best we are going to get. Maybe Sumter Street can be streetscaped after Main and have developers build apartments with retail on the bottom on Sumter? There are a bunch of underutilized/empty lots there that could support a lot of units and doesn't have to comply with the Vista's height restrictions. The location is ideal, near the Vista, Main Street, USC and Five Points. Just a thought as much of what is there is complete crap atm.

[Spartan]

If Class C office space can be upgraded for housing, then it can be upgraded for commercial space. The building is probably the best in the whole state for an office building, and probably the worst for residential. Modern apartment and condo towers are complete with balconies, pools, gyms, retail space, elevated gathering space (i.e.: rooftop or pool deck level)... most of which cannot be retrofitted into this tower. From my point of view, I don't care how great the location is, I'm not going to live somewhere that doesn't have most of those amenities. I realize people do (e.g. Cornell Arms) but I think it's a much tougher sell.

I am 100% in support of more residential in the heart of the CBD. I just don't think that building is the solution. I think new spaces need to be developed in the many historic structures which will allow for 'cool' urban lofts, and infill residential development (like the new private dorms proposed on Huger St) should be developed on some of many dozens of parking lots in downtown.

I also think that it speaks poorly to Columbia's CBD office market to remove tens of thousands of square feet of office space, regardless of what "class" it is. How can we sit around and expect Columbia to develop new office space when we can't even find people to fix and fill the existing buildings?

[CorgiMatt]

If Class C office space can be upgraded for housing, then it can be upgraded for commercial space. The building is probably the best in the whole state for an office building, and probably the worst for residential. Modern apartment and condo towers are complete with balconies, pools, gyms, retail space, elevated gathering space (i.e.: rooftop or pool deck level)... most of which cannot be retrofitted into this tower. From my point of view, I don't care how great the location is, I'm not going to live somewhere that doesn't have most of those amenities. I realize people do (e.g. Cornell Arms) but I think it's a much tougher sell.

I am 100% in support of more residential in the heart of the CBD. I just don't think that building is the solution. I think new spaces need to be developed in the many historic structures which will allow for 'cool' urban lofts, and infill residential development (like the new private dorms proposed on Huger St) should be developed on some of many dozens of parking lots in downtown.

I also think that it speaks poorly to Columbia's CBD office market to remove tens of thousands of square feet of office space, regardless of what "class" it is. How can we sit around and expect Columbia to develop new office space when we can't even find people to fix and fill the existing buildings?

Most developers don't want to touch big renovations like that for office space. They would rather build a new tower. To me that building has apartment conversion written all over it. According to the developer's plan it will have all the mentioned amenities except for balconies. I'm not sure I like the idea of 800 students hanging out overhead on their balconies anyway. In the big picture a 21-story building that houses students is nothing. If the business community does their part downtown, in the long run the building should become lost among more significant buildings.

[Spartan]

Most developers don't want to touch big renovations like that for office space. They would rather build a new tower. To me that building has apartment conversion written all over it. According to the developer's plan it will have all the mentioned amenities except for balconies. I'm not sure I like the idea of 800 students hanging out overhead on their balconies anyway. In the big picture a 21-story building that houses students is nothing. If the business community does their part downtown, in the long run the building should become lost among more significant buildings.

On what are you basing your opinion? If is true, Charlotte and Atlanta would be full of empty class C office towers. I will agree that there has to be a lot of demand for someone to take on the challenge of renovating a building like that.

[growingup15]

Has there been any Rendering yet on how the Tower will look after Renovation? If someone can find a Picture of the after look of this Tower i would really like to have it to put on my Website.

[CorgiMatt]

On what are you basing your opinion? If is true, Charlotte and Atlanta would be full of empty class C office towers. I will agree that there has to be a lot of demand for someone to take on the challenge of renovating a building like that.

It would be interesting to know how much of Charlotte and Atlanta's class C office buildings are empty. The word I'm always getting is that in many cases it's less expensive to build new than to do major renovations. At any rate, to me, housing hundreds of students speaks to a public need, and how much more public-looking than that building can you get?

[Spartan]

In terms of buildings it would be difficult to tell, but I can give you some approximate comparisons. I looked up market reports for Columbia, Charlotte, and Atlanta. I decided to leave Atlanta out of the comparison because they have 3 distinct skyscraper districts (Downtown, Midtown, and Buckhead), but you can view their information here.

Columbia and Charlotte have very similar Class C statistics with 28 and 24 buildings totaling 1 million sq ft and 1.3 million sq ft respectively. It looks like about half of Columbia's class C space is vacant, with over half (64%) being represented by the Palmetto Center (420,000 sq ft).

Historically, Charlotte's CBD has a very high demand for office space. We had something like 5-9% vacancy rates (for all classes) for many years, which was the lowest in the nation and virtually unheard of in a healthy market. That's why three new office towers were constructed over the past several years (Duke Energy Center, NASCAR, and 1 Bank of America Center). Overall we are at about 10% vacant, which is healthier and still somewhat low given the tenuous economic situation nationally.

That's where I'm basing my opinion. How will seeing 420,000 of office space impact the market perception? Losing Class C office space might end up being a positive for Columbia- I'm not sure. I just don't see how losing 9% of the total office space in the CBD in the tallest and arguably most prominent office tower in South Carolina is a good thing. Why build more office space when the existing space can't be filled?

I also have trouble believing that it would cost less to build walls, insulation, soundproofing, plumbing, etc for 25 floors, adding a pool, etc, etc is less expensive than upgrading the office space. I'm not saying it isn't, but without more information I have trouble believing that. I feel like if that were true we would hear about this type of conversion more frequently in post 1950s office towers.

-----Class C Office Space Vacancy Comparison-----


City		 BLDG	 Sq Ft Vac	 %Vac	 Total Sq Ft

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Columbia	 28	 659,646 sq ft	 49.22%	 1,033,960

Charlotte	 24	 24,510 sq ft	 2.40% 1,340,224

Links:

Colliers Market Report 1Q 2012: Columbia

Colliers Market Report 1Q 2012: Charlotte

[CorgiMatt]

21 floors. And office space will be built when the market calls for it. The market is calling for student housing now. And I hate to say it, but if that ugly thing (sometimes has redeeming qualities if the sun hits it the right way) is even in the conversation as being SC's most prominent office building, SC is in big trouble.

[johnpro318]

In terms of buildings it would be difficult to tell, but I can give you some approximate comparisons. I looked up market reports for Columbia, Charlotte, and Atlanta. I decided to leave Atlanta out of the comparison because they have 3 distinct skyscraper districts (Downtown, Midtown, and Buckhead), but you can view their information here.

Columbia and Charlotte have very similar Class C statistics with 28 and 24 buildings totaling 1 million sq ft and 1.3 million sq ft respectively. It looks like about half of Columbia's class C space is vacant, with over half (64%) being represented by the Palmetto Center (420,000 sq ft).

Historically, Charlotte's CBD has a very high demand for office space. We had something like 5-9% vacancy rates (for all classes) for many years, which was the lowest in the nation and virtually unheard of in a healthy market. That's why three new office towers were constructed over the past several years (Duke Energy Center, NASCAR, and 1 Bank of America Center). Overall we are at about 10% vacant, which is healthier and still somewhat low given the tenuous economic situation nationally.

That's where I'm basing my opinion. How will seeing 420,000 of office space impact the market perception? Losing Class C office space might end up being a positive for Columbia- I'm not sure. I just don't see how losing 9% of the total office space in the CBD in the tallest and arguably most prominent office tower in South Carolina is a good thing. Why build more office space when the existing space can't be filled?

I also have trouble believing that it would cost less to build walls, insulation, soundproofing, plumbing, etc for 25 floors, adding a pool, etc, etc is less expensive than upgrading the office space. I'm not saying it isn't, but without more information I have trouble believing that. I feel like if that were true we would hear about this type of conversion more frequently in post 1950s office towers.

-----Class C Office Space Vacancy Comparison-----


City		 BLDG	 Sq Ft Vac	 %Vac	 Total Sq Ft

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Columbia	 28	 659,646 sq ft	 49.22%	 1,033,960

Charlotte	 24	 24,510 sq ft	 2.40% 1,340,224

Links:

Colliers Market Report 1Q 2012: Columbia

Colliers Market Report 1Q 2012: Charlotte

Some interesting articles, albeit dated:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-03-04/business/9603040032_1_residential-conversion-office-buildings-loop

He described Class C buildings as the "bottom of the food chain--structures that may appeal to startup businesses but not to firms intent on creating an image."

These structures may have window air conditioners and interior columns and be built around a central light court, so that only a patchwork of offices are available on each floor. "Today's users want an open floorplate," he said.

Friedman, whose company specializes in adaptive reuse, said retrofitting can be very costly. "Maybe you can buy a Class C building for $10 to $15 a square foot," he said, "but retrofitting may cost $50 to $80 a square foot."

One old structure that already has made the successful transition from offices to residential is the 22-story Transportation Building, 600 S. Dearborn St.

In 1980, it was retrofitted for apartments. Now the 294 units are being converted for condominiums.

Interesting graphic from http://www.coydavidson.com/construction/the-cost-of-an-office-build-out/:

I think it costs a surprising amount of money to retrofit these spaces and many companies that can afford the retrofit would rather have the amenities and image of a newer tower.

[Spartan]

21 floors. And office space will be built when the market calls for it. The market is calling for student housing now. And I hate to say it, but if that ugly thing (sometimes has redeeming qualities if the sun hits it the right way) is even in the conversation as being SC's most prominent office building, SC is in big trouble.

If not the Palmetto Center, then what building has a similar visibility and stature in South Carolina? Being the tallest in the state and located directly across the street from the Capitol is hard to beat.

I think it costs a surprising amount of money to retrofit these spaces and many companies that can afford the retrofit would rather have the amenities and image of a newer tower.

Then why do we not see much, much more of this in similarly aged buildings? I feel like those articles are referring more to the 1920s era towers in Detroit and New York. The Palmetto Center isn't old, it just hasn't been well managed.

[CorgiMatt]

If not the Palmetto Center, then what building has a similar visibility and stature in South Carolina? Being the tallest in the state and located directly across the street from the Capitol is hard to beat.

Then why do we not see much, much more of this in similarly aged buildings? I feel like those articles are referring more to the 1920s era towers in Detroit and New York. The Palmetto Center isn't old, it just hasn't been well managed.

Like the Blossom Street bridge instead of the Blossom Street railroad tracks flyover, you've got your buildings mixed up. You're thinking of the Capitol Center. I have grown to love that building. You should have seen it today when a huge bold rainbow was coming off its roof and arching southward to the Congaree River. The Palmetto Center (the proposed private dorm building) is the former SCANA building and IMO has little to recommend it unless the sun hits it just right.

[Spartan]

Like the Blossom Street bridge instead of the Blossom Street railroad tracks flyover, you've got your buildings mixed up. You're thinking of the Capitol Center. I have grown to love that building. You should have seen it today when a huge bold rainbow was coming off its roof and arching southward to the Congaree River. The Palmetto Center (the proposed private dorm building) is the former SCANA building and IMO has little to recommend it unless the sun hits it just right.

1- I was right about the Blossom St "flyover" location, just wrong about the scale of the building and how it would be situated on that parcel.

2- I do have my buildings mixed up in this conversation though. The Palmetto Center is over at Hampton at Main, I see that now. With that new fact, I will agree that this is not a prominent office building in terms of "South Carolina" but it is still a large office building in Columbia, and all of my comments can apply to any building. I hope that this conversion is a success and a boon for Main Street, but I still have my doubts about it.