First Ward Urban Village / North Tryon Vision Plan

[Guest]

Just now, go_vertical said:

Is anyone else starting to feel like we are sneaking up on a bubble? I realize that this cycle has been fairly well mixed in regards to uses, but I can't help but feel that the list of uptown/southend projects waiting in the wings has gotten pretty damn long. I'm thinking we'll be lucky to see half of what has been announced get off the ground anytime soon. Really hope I'm wrong though.

If there is a bubble, a lot of it will be because of the lack of labor to build these projects, and the prices that are being bidded out for them.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Guest

[go_vertical]

Coming from you that is reassuring. So see a majority of recent announcements as viable?

[Guest]

Just now, go_vertical said:

Coming from you that is reassuring. So see a majority of recent announcements as viable?

Not necessarily. I'm saying there might be projects that don't make it, because there isn't enough labor to build them. I'm pretty sure we will have an oversupply of apartments at some point, but thats how it works. Oversupply, have a flat period while people catch up to the supply, build again. Its cyclical. 

[atlrvr]

A bubble popping in apartments isn't psychologically damaging to the average resident like a condo, where they feel the pain of the negative equity.

If the correction is severe enough, some of the properties will certainly get foreclosed upon, and then sold by the lenders to new owners who can then charge lower rents (because their cost to purchase the community and resulting new debt is much lower).  This will put downward pressure on other apartments, and possibly lead to additional foreclosures, but market stabilization can be quickly achieved, and most renters are going to be really happy for this.  This most damaging aspects to individuals is that some older communities likely more suburban in nature, will soon be competing with new urban class A buildings, and really suffer as their tenants "upgrade", which leads to higher crime rates and general deterioration in those areas.

Talking more macro theory here, rather than making a call that Charlotte is close to those circumstances.  Lending standards are getting substantially tougher, and the new starts of apartments are declining.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, atlrvr said:

This most damaging aspects to individuals is that some older communities likely more suburban in nature, will soon be competing with new urban class A buildings, and really suffer as their tenants "upgrade", which leads to higher crime rates and general deterioration in those areas.

 

This has been a big time concern of mine. 

[KJHburg]

I think the apartment market is slowing down nationwide and in Charlotte. Lennar is well capitalized and it can make it work but some others may fall off the radar. Older class A minus or B communities will be more competitive with their rents and some communities will go downhill for sure. There wont be the growth in apartments in terms of completions and construction costs are rising.  However Lennar being a builder may start off as apartments then convert to condo down the road who better than a national homebuilder. 

[SgtCampsalot]

The N Davidson St corridor has... at least three apartment projects that have been fully approved but not one ounce of dirt has been turned... shortage of labor makes sense. 

We'll see.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

I think the apartment market is slowing down nationwide and in Charlotte. Lennar is well capitalized and it can make it work but some others may fall off the radar. Older class A minus or B communities will be more competitive with their rents and some communities will go downhill for sure. There wont be the growth in apartments in terms of completions and construction costs are rising.  However Lennar being a builder may start off as apartments then convert to condo down the road who better than a national homebuilder. 

I can't remember the reasons, stated on this forum, by someone, but a Condo to Apartment conversion is easy peasy... the opposite... is very hard.

[KJHburg]

NC law makes developers responsible for defects in the property up to 7 years for newly built condos after it is built so it is possible after 7 years to convert apartments to condo.  I think some of these high rise apartments will convert in the future but only if the market conditions are right.  

Edited January 19, 2017 by KJHburg

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

NC law makes developers responsible for defects in the property up to 7 years for newly built condos after it is built so it is possible after 7 years to convert apartments to condo.  I think some of these high rise apartments will convert in the future but only if the market conditions are right. 

That, thanks. Its been a long day.

[deleted]

^^

Have to imagine, this project would finally jump-start other projects in First Ward (we thought the same thing about the park though)...

[urbanlover568]

Awesome news. This makes 7 high or mid-rises under construction in 2017. 

-300 s tryon

- Lincoln Harris

-Tryon Place

-Whole Foods mixed use

-Northwood Raven

 -Skyhouse

-Lennar 

[Guest]

^^
Have to imagine, this project would finally jump-start other projects in First Ward (we thought the same thing about the park though)...

It'll jump start the adjacent developments that aren't owned by Daniel.


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[HopHead]

I drove by Levine's deck yesterday and they were taking the crane down. It looks like they have the support columns in place around the deck for the apartments already. I suppose that means these are now going up? I can't seem to remember if that was already known or not.

[Guest]

I drove by Levine's deck yesterday and they were taking the crane down. It looks like they have the support columns in place around the deck for the apartments already. I suppose that means these are now going up? I can't seem to remember if that was already known or not.

I think the columns have been up more than 6 months.


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[Guest]

On 1/19/2017 at 5:54 PM, JBS said:

^^

Have to imagine, this project would finally jump-start other projects in First Ward (we thought the same thing about the park though)...

Lennar not wasting any time what so ever. 

Market 42 Mixed use residential project including: 5-story residential (+/- 197 units) over retail wrapping pre-cast garage (+/- 929 spaces), and 30-story residential (+/- 342 units)

[J-Rob]

So this should be around the same height as Odell Plaza at 330 ft(ish)?  That would be a nice addition to the skyline where there currently is a gap.  Has anyone seen or heard anything about the design?  I assume it will be fairly standard, but I don't mind the rendering of the Lennar San Diego project posted a page back.

Edited February 14, 2017 by J-Rob

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, J-Rob said:

So this should be around the same height as Odell Plaza at 330 ft(ish)?  That would be a nice addition to the skyline where there currently is a gap.  Has anyone seen or heard anything about the design?  I assume it will be fairly standard, but I don't mind the rendering of the Lennar San Diego project posted a page back.

They are actually going a little bonkers with high rise development since the original announcement of them purchasing the land. There are more examples of decent projects out there by them. 330-340 sounds about right. Hopefully this is weighted towards 8th street, thats the only way it provides much of a gap filler. I sent a couple emails out to try to get renderings. 

[HopHead]

So stupid question... Why do they need a 929 flipping space parking deck for ~540 residential units? Is this part of the bigger picture with a hotel/office tower component in the next phase? It seems ridiculous to me that they would need almost 2 spaces for every 1 unit of residential. Are they oblivious to the fact that the BLE extension will have a station a stones throw away? 

[nakers2]

3 hours ago, HopHead said:

So stupid question... Why do they need a 929 flipping space parking deck for ~540 residential units? Is this part of the bigger picture with a hotel/office tower component in the next phase? It seems ridiculous to me that they would need almost 2 spaces for every 1 unit of residential. Are they oblivious to the fact that the BLE extension will have a station a stones throw away? 

I commented the same thing on the Charlotte observer story earlier, I would like to think that's the case, future expansion, but something tells me that if another developer is in charge of what comes next, more parking will follow, that's my general observation, every developer wants their own parking garage, no sharing, and God forbid the executives have to walk across the street!

[KJHburg]

Some of that parking is contracted to UNC Charlotte and  that is why the deck is so big. Remember it was delayed because Levine couldnt get the state to pay its share on time or so he said. Not sure how many spaces UNC Charlotte will get. 

[Guest]

Some of that parking is contracted to UNC Charlotte and  that is why the deck is so big. Remember it was delayed because Levine couldnt get the state to pay its share on time or so he said. Not sure how many spaces UNC Charlotte will get. 

From what I understand what's being built currently is L shaped. It'll be residential tower fronting college and 8th and a midrise fronting the entire rail trail. They plan on activating the spaces along the rail trail to be like 7th street station. What's left will be a space for an office tower along 9th and college. I can't say whether the parking is for the future, but it might suggest it is. The comment about UNCC only applies to Levines deck.


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[uptownliving]

I'm so glad that Levine sold this land and something will actually get developed. We need development now to activate First Ward Park NOW before it becomes a big homeless camp. Because Levine hasn't gotten off his ass and developed any of the empty parcels around the park it is pretty quiet over there at night and when I walk through there it is very common to see 5-10 homeless people asleep there in the park at night. So thanks again to Lennar for actually doing something and bringing in more people.

The other interesting thing to watch will be how they handle the homeless lady on 8th St. She has been camped out on the sidewalk near the LRT tracks for about 3 years now. She has had just about every non-profit agency in town stop by and talk to her to get her off the street but she refuses every time. Even when it goes down to near zero degrees outside she has remained at her spot on the sidewalk and survived. It is just one person but I have a feeling that when it comes time for Lennar to start construction and kick her out she will not go willingly.

[caterpillar2]

23 hours ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Lennar not wasting any time what so ever. 

Market 42 Mixed use residential project including: 5-story residential (+/- 197 units) over retail wrapping pre-cast garage (+/- 929 spaces), and 30-story residential (+/- 342 units)

Lennar said that the start will be during the third quarter of this year and did say that there would be over 500 apartments. 

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, caterpillar2 said:

Lennar said that the start will be during the third quarter of this year and did say that there would be over 500 apartments. 

Fair. Honestly, they have ramped up their multifamily developing in the past 6 months, ambitiously-so. I just never expected it to move this quickly.