First Ward Urban Village / North Tryon Vision Plan

[dubone]

swinging back to the park discussion briefly...

the b of a reps must have been pretty persuasive to convince levine to convert the more valuable block (college, 7, 8, and trx) to a park to benefit their project and land value. Not only does he give up productive development on the more valuable block, but he would only own land half the land abutting the park rather than almost all of it.

The Levine Bank of America Mint Museum of Art and Land Deals.

[UptownJ]

i would hate to see the hall house building go. its the only older, red brick highrise left on tryon. it used to be a hotel too, i believe. i wonder if BofA will go the transamerica route or highrise for its space. Transamerica has what, 400,000 ft of office and only 10 floors high.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree ... I would hate to see that building go too... It addes a little age to our almost all post modern skyline. It would be nice to see it get a upgrade to accumidate better middle class housing in downtown. BofA can all's go around it too... Building around it would also be a wonderful addon to our skyline. I nice older building surrounded by a park... midrises... and office towers... sounds quite nice to me. Who knows if it will happen though. ... Here's to wishful thinking

[atlrvr]

LOL at museum name......one advantage to the block is the church occupys maybe 1/5 of it and there is no way that it will be demolished, however the other block (betwen 8th and 9th) is completely vacant and developable.....perhaps that offsets the value difference.

Also, I didn't mean to make it seem like the park location is a definite. It's simply ULI's recommendation to CCP. Granted Levine and the Mint both had input on the plan, but I'm not sure it's either of their preferences (though I assume the Mint would be keen on it) I personally like the original plan (linear along the tracks) and it would be easier due to transit concerns and ingress/egress of the planned underground parking. While it would be nice for the Mint to have a statue garden at their doorsteps, it certainly would not be out of the question for them to locate it only a block further away.

[fulcrumsf]

I think the use of a park with the Levine project is still a good idea, especially when adding retail to the project. Even though he loses property to develop on, he can open the space up with a little bit of green area. It could prove successful. Does anyone know if Levine will own or operate the land proposed for the park, or will that be city/county owened or operated?

[atlrvr]

The last I heard is that Levine wanted to own the park and garage, and lease the park to the county......the county said hell no. The county was insisting on outright owning the park (I would assume they would buy the air rights, or development rights or something to give them control of everything above ground) That was over a year ago, so I don't know what has changed since then.

[49er]

atlrvr,

whats the word on a public announcement on this bofa project?

now that i dont live and work in charlotte anymore, i dont have the inside knowledge i used to be so privy to!

in terms of corporate gifts, i think the city of charlotte should take advantage of this stage of its downtown development. If the banks didnt exist, downtown charlotte would look a whole lot more like dt raleigh right now. Not that dt raleigh is a bad place, but it lacks the skyscapers and big developments that are occurring in char. corporate seed money is what got dt where it is today.

[atlrvr]

I heard there could be a public announcement in as soon as a month....I'd be surprised if it's that soon, but they could be much further along than I suspect. I agree that I am grateful to the banks, I guess my only qualm is that the city overall is very flexible with its small area plans, design criteria, etc., and I believe are a bit to anxious to automatically cave to any benefactors requests. I'd prefer to see backbone like there is when free money isn't involved. I know we have to bend some, I just would like to think that we care enough about overall urban design to try to get the best deal for this city both financially and architectually.

[UptownJ]

I would personally love to see almost like a mini central park theme... based off of NYC. I nice size park with plenty of trees, a pond, lots of walk ways and open spaces to sit or to play with your dog, and mid and high rises around it, with street level retail.

That would be a development that would pay off... both for the city and who ever was to own it.

[Neo]

Charlotte is *EXTREMELY* lacking in the DT parks department. All of them are a joke. Either their non-existant or way to small. The bigger parks are too far from downtown to do any good, like Freedom Park, and even that park isn't up to snuff with the systems in places like Chicago.

[Southend]

the renwick is not dead. like someone mentioned on here in a different thread, expect ground breaking by late march.

[ElricSeven]

Sounds like Blvd Centro is under contract to buy the little strip mall at the end of 7th, behind where the Renwick is going to go.

[atlrvr]

Hmmmmm....I like the sound of that.....although I hope he incorporates ground floor retail since the neigbhorhood seems to be somewhat lacking......actually a good neighborhood bar would be good.

[ElricSeven]

Hmmmmm....I like the sound of that.....although I hope he incorporates ground floor retail since the neigbhorhood seems to be somewhat lacking......actually a good neighborhood bar would be good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I believe that there are plans to do retail, signficant ones due to the city's effort to make this an impressive gateway into uptown. I guess they want people heading into uptown on 7th to be struck with a view of a busy little mini district when crossing 277.

[dubone]

i'm sure whatever they build will have ground level retail, as many of their projects do. The problem isn't space, it is lack of businesses able to make the numbers work to lease that space. At 10th and N. Davidson, some neighborhood folks planned to do a coffee shop, but the place has been built for a while now, but they weren't able to make it work to put a coffee shop.

Either way, it is really good news to know they own that parcel, and will likely do something cool with it.

What is the deal with the rest of that block. I know the part west of myers will be renwick. Is the part east of renwick and south of the parcel that blvd centro just bought... is that parcel planned for anything?

[ElricSeven]

i'm sure whatever they build will have ground level retail, as many of their projects do.  The problem isn't space, it is lack of businesses able to make the numbers work to lease that space.  At 10th and N. Davidson, some neighborhood folks planned to do a coffee shop, but the place has been built for a while now, but they weren't able to make it work to put a coffee shop. 

Either way, it is really good news to know they own that parcel, and will likely do something cool with it. 

What is the deal with the rest of that block.  I know the part west of myers will be renwick.  Is the part east of renwick and south of the parcel that blvd centro just bought... is that parcel planned for anything?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i thought the problem with the space at 10th and N. Davidson is a zoning problem

there's something about the residential zoning of the garden district I believe that only allows non-drinking establishments and (perhaps) not a coffee shop

[atlrvr]

There is a phase two of The Renwick which will include a 5 story apartment building some of which will be for public housing I believe. There should be 190 units.....I guess this would go between where Phase 1 of The Renwich and the Blvd piece.........and then the Drakeford Project and M Street and 1st Ward is DONE!!!! East of Caldwell anyways......

It will be great to have a complete urban neighborhood......on to 2nd ward.......although there are still many things that have to fall into place before the parcels become available for redevelopment.

[uptownliving]

Right now Blvd Centro only has the option on the land where the strip center is at the corner of McDowell and 7th.. The City of Charlotte owns what is now First Ward Park...the section between the Renwick and McDowell St. They have put out the property for bid. A few on the council wanted to do a private sale of this property to Blvd Centro...but the council voted to open this up for bid. So the highest bidder will get the property.

[dubone]

i thought the problem with the space at 10th and N. Davidson is a zoning problem

there's something about the residential zoning of the garden district I believe that only allows non-drinking establishments and (perhaps) not a coffee shop

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

lol. i hadn't heard that! That is so not funny it is funny. We live a block away from all those places, and we've never been to any of them to keep money in our neighborhood. The only thing we would probably go to occassionally is a coffee shop that has any hope of going in that sized space...

If the guys were ready to go there, and the prob is only zoning... why don't they rezone? How ironic that you can buy a phodey at the convenience store there and drink it on the park benches without breaking the law, but you can't set up a shop selling chai tea and lattes.

atlrvr, i think when/if all these projects happen, there will be momentum pressure to build on the land on the south side of 6th street, and possibly redeveloping the block on the southeast corner of mcd/7th. Who knows, maybe someone could even strike a deal with the UHOP church or Little Rock AME church or even the bell south switching building to redev their parking lots.

[atlrvr]

And that hideous CPCC building at the SE of 7th and McDowell.

[dubone]

And that hideous CPCC building at the SE of 7th and McDowell.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yup, that's the one i was mentioning. i'm sure cpcc will be vacating it soon anyway as some of their big projects are finished.

[ElricSeven]

lol.  i hadn't heard that!  That is so not funny it is funny.  We live a block away from all those places, and we've never been to any of them to keep money in our neighborhood.  The only thing we would probably go to occassionally is a coffee shop that has any hope of going in that sized space... 

If the guys were ready to go there, and the prob is only zoning... why don't they rezone?  How ironic that you can buy a phodey at the convenience store there and drink it on the park benches without breaking the law, but you can't set up a shop selling chai tea and lattes. 

atlrvr, i think when/if all these projects happen, there will be momentum pressure to build on the land on the south side of 6th street, and possibly redeveloping the block on the southeast corner of mcd/7th.  Who knows, maybe someone could even strike a deal with the UHOP church or Little Rock AME church or even the bell south switching building to redev their parking lots.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Rezoning's not as easy as it sounds and can be a really expensive effort not justified for a $180,000 piece of property. If you proposed putting a coffee shop in there, I would imagine everyone in Cityview would throw a fit.

[dubone]

Rezoning's not as easy as it sounds and can be a really expensive effort not justified for a $180,000 piece of property.  If you proposed putting a coffee shop in there, I would imagine everyone in Cityview would throw a fit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i didn't propose that... i was what someone was trying to put in there, since they sent surveys to everyone in the neighborhood announcing their intentions. My wife and i were kind of excited about it, so that is why it stuck in my mind.

I just assumed they couldn't get the business case to work, but then i thought you were saying that zoning wouldn't allow for a coffee shop.

Why would cityview people be upset by a small neighborhood coffee shop? I thought that was the intended use given the little patio. What kinds of shops could go there that would be okay?

[ElricSeven]

i didn't propose that... i was what someone was trying to put in there, since they sent surveys to everyone in the neighborhood announcing their intentions.  My wife and i were kind of excited about it, so that is why it stuck in my mind.

I just assumed they couldn't get the business case to work, but then i thought you were saying that zoning wouldn't allow for a coffee shop.

Why would cityview people be upset by a small neighborhood coffee shop?  I thought that was the intended use given the little patio. What kinds of shops could go there that would be okay?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was just guessing that if you did try to get a coffee shop in there, the residents of Cityview would be really particular about your operating hours due to the noise and crowds. That stuff always seems cool if it is in someone elses building.

My understanding is that the two gentlemen who wanted to do it go more of a response asking for a bar and that the rezoning for this would be very difficult and expensive. I'm not positive on whether coffee shops are allowed under the zoning, but I think they thought that wouldn't make them enough money.

Of course this is all multiple-person hearsay, so I wouldn't count on the details being that clean cut.

Regardless, I'd love to see someone jump in and develop the place into a wine bar/sandwich shop/coffee shop. That'd be cool. The rest of the neighborhood would like it, that's for sure. Another thing someone could do is buy out the hair salon and bail bondsman, etc. and put it our version of Alexander Michaels.

[uptownliving]

The current zoning allows for a neighborhood service retail in CityView...so that includes coffee shops, sandwich shops..etc. If they make it some kind of bar...then they would likely have to get it rezoned...and my guess is that the Cityview people would not want a bar there.

I do remember about a year ago a woman announcing that a coffee shop was going in that space....then when nothing showed up I heard that the main problem was lack of parking (go figure)

[dubone]

The current zoning allows for a neighborhood service retail in CityView...so that includes coffee shops, sandwich shops..etc. If they make it some kind of bar...then they would likely have to get it rezoned...and my guess is that the Cityview people would not want a bar there.

I do remember about a year ago a woman announcing that a coffee shop was going in that space....then when nothing showed up I heard that the main problem was lack of parking (go figure)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hahaha.... PARKING? i wonder if that was a stated reason that the banks wouldn't give them a loan or something.

It is a shame that nothing has been able to go on that spot all this time.

The little places next to the church crack me up. When we first moved in, i was showing my dad the area. we walked past "Tanning, Massages, and MORE" (more than a massage! ), "Good Vibrations", "Bail Bondsman", and "Fresh Fish, you buy it, we fry it" signs, and then a homeless guy asked us for money. Nothing like showing your parents how you've really made it in life.