First Ward Urban Village / North Tryon Vision Plan

[cooperdawg]

Ok, I can buy that, but seeing that it was announced before M Street (which is now well under construction), it does make me curious.  I wonder what kind of design changes had to be made?  I just find it odd that Furman's 17-story steel and concrete tower which was announced the same week as The Renwick.  It's now at 12-stories and the five-story sick-built Renwick still has a basketball court on it's site.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, the timeframe between where they started and where they currently stand is staggering. Sometimes it depends on the reviewer of the project. Looks like they drew a stiff-johnny going completly by the book.

[dubone]

is this delay really about building permits? that seems to just be an excuse when projects are having trouble getting off the ground.

perhaps it is a symptom of economic trouble for the project, as they are less willing to pay for code/building changes requested, whereas if a project is doing well financially, they can make a $10,000 change here and there, as the rest of the profits are waiting when it is built. that doesn't seem to be the case for park and renwick.

[cooperdawg]

is this delay really about building permits?  that seems to just be an excuse when projects are having trouble getting off the ground. 

perhaps it is a symptom of economic trouble for the project, as they are less willing to pay for code/building changes requested, whereas if a project is doing well financially, they can make a $10,000 change here and there, as the rest of the profits are waiting when it is built.  that doesn't seem to be the case for park and renwick.

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Could be, I'd be suspicious of this project at this point. Just what a good friend told me. He's got no reason to hide anything, so that's just as much as he knows at this point. He's the civil engineer for the project.

[graydog]

This project was DOA. We went to the sales office and it was littered with direct mail they were preparing. This was before all the recent announcements, so remember there was a lot of pent-up demand. Centro had waiting lists and these guys were pulling out the marketing guns. Something was up.

Shortly thereafter the print ads started. Then this winter the main salesperson - who lives in 1st Ward - went to a different firm.

We were so desparate for Uptown we gave them a deposit. This was before just before M Street, which is where we did buy.

There are 3 big drawbacks to The Renwick. 1) Unknown developers, 2) low income apts will be next door, and 3) design. A condo overlooking a pool with Roman columns is just plain tacky and potentially noisy. And if you're a woman, would you want to hangout at a pool where anyone can gawk at you all day?

[dubone]

very good points. also, even more interesting that they never replied to our request for info .

the mixed income is all over first ward, so that isn't a big concern to me...but design and known developer makes a huge difference. Furman is magic with creating value by interesting design and name brand. He is someone that just has a pulse on what people are interested in if they are moving downtown.

hopefully they can just sell the land to furman and call it a day.

Another possibility is that it gets built as apartments, as was originally proposed. They are condos because the neighborhood was concerned about diluting ownership %s in the neighborhood, but with other growth since then, that may be less of a concern.

[ngp]

I spoke with someone in the sales office last week. He said they're telling people Fall 2006 as the projected move-in date, but obviously that's tentative at this point.

Also, all one-bedroom units and studios w/ lofts are reserved. That leaves a couple 500 sq ft studios and lots of two and three-bedroom units available. I'm guessing Charlotte just isn't ready for family-sized condos yet.

[ElricSeven]

I spoke with someone in the sales office last week. He said they're telling people Fall 2006 as the projected move-in date, but obviously that's tentative at this point.

Also, all one-bedroom units and studios w/ lofts are reserved. That leaves a couple 500 sq ft studios and lots of two and three-bedroom units available. I'm guessing Charlotte just isn't ready for family-sized condos yet.

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The two bedrooms sold really well in the other complexes, not sure why that would be a drawback. I think this is good evidence that people aren't rushing in like lemmings to buy anything that hits the market. It has to have the right location, pedigree, amenities and most of all has to represent some value. This is very reassuring to me that if there is a bubble of speculation, at least it is of moderate size.

[dubone]

i think charlotte is ready for family sized condos... but people prefer townhouse style vs flat style. Unless it is highrise, the large units should be styled like townhouses, with smaller units on top ala furman's village of south end and others.

i don't want them to fail... but flats in lowrise buildings are the least desireable style of condos, and it makes sense that they are having trouble.

[Miesian Corners]

These units are priced (per sq ft) about the same as the steel and concrete towers going up. Which would you rather live in? Stick-built wood floors where you hear your neighbor's stiletto pumps clopping across her floor above you, or peace and quiet with a thick layer of concrete separating you from her shoe fetish?

Edited June 9, 2005 by Miesian Corners

[ElricSeven]

i think charlotte is ready for family sized condos... but people prefer townhouse style vs flat style.  Unless it is highrise, the large units should be styled like townhouses, with smaller units on top ala furman's village of south end and others.

i don't want them to fail... but flats in lowrise buildings are the least desireable style of condos, and it makes sense that they are having trouble.

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That maybe doesn't jive with Tivoli's success, but I otherwise concur. No one wants to spend good money on something too "Apartmenty".

[dubone]

tivoli, however, has had its issues. but it was successful because prices were in the mid-100s not mid-200s.

[UptownJ]

These units are priced (per sq ft) about the same as the steel and concrete towers going up.  Which would you rather live in?  Stick-built wood floors where you hear your  neighbor's stiletto pumps clopping across her floor above you, or peace and quiet with a thick layer of concrete separating you from her shoe fetish?

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nicely said

[graydog]

tivoli, however, has had its issues.  but it was successful because prices were in the mid-100s not mid-200s.

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What issues did it have?

[TrueLight]

I don't know if anyone caught this, but in this week's Creative Loafing there is a half-page ad with a color rendering of the controversial Drakeford townhome project in First Ward.  The townhomes are being marketed as "16 luxurious townhomes" priced from $335K to $550K, 1557 to 2443 sq.ft., 9 and 10 ft ceilings, private enclosed patios, attached 2 gar garages. 

Unfortunately no website is listed.

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Right after the sign went up for the project, I picked up one of the sheets with the breakdown and it was listed like this:

Unit #1=$550,000.00, #2=$530K, #3=505K, #4=345K, #5 (which was reserved at that time) $ 345K, #6=$495K, #7 & #8=$550K, #9=545K, #10=$530K, #11=495K, #12=345K, #13=340K, #14=485K, #15=550K, #16=545K. A quick calculation is somewhere close to 7.8 million, but I might be wrong (it is early after a late night), but all-in-all I sure wouldn't want to be one of the homeowners still living in the homes with a sign in my yard showing how much is going to be made from the demolition of my home. It will be public record at some point and time, and I don't like to guess on issues, but I just doubt that any of these homeowners will ever see any money that is near the cost of the 3 lowest priced units, but we will soon see the whole truth, when this project fully takes off.

I did check out the website that was listed on the sheet on the day that I picked it up when I was out and about that day, but on that day, the website was not yet up and running., but as of tonight the website was up and running and there was still ONLY ONE UNIT RESERVED...hummm. But if you would like to see all the floor plans and verify all the information and pricing that I have stated, then you can go to the website (which is now up and running at www.8thSquaretownhomes.com but NOT listed on the developer's website, which is www.tdcrealestate.com) and see all the information necessary and then you can buy as many as you want. My only recommendation is that I would steer clear of those ugly Duke Power transformers on those ugly power poles. BTW, I think it is a bit too much that the developer has named the units after the homeowners of the very homes that they will have demolished. I just wonder if a potetional homeowner will ever ask the question about these names and what they mean and if it would make a difference to them that they are sleeping on top of land where these homes were moved as a result of a court decision as I understand as a type of consession for all the people who lost their homes, etc. because of Urban Renewal, but as it has been stated before, many people on this message board do not really care for any form of history and prefer to just have higher buildings, more people, and thus that will give happiness. I thank you for allowing me to speak to this issue and I respect everyone's opinion and appreciate this outlet for our opportunity to learn more about our beautiful city. That is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Thank you and enjoy this beautiful day and our beautiful city.

[ElricSeven]

but all-in-all I sure wouldn't want to be one of the homeowners still living in the homes with a sign in my yard showing how much is going to be made from the demolition of my home. It will be public record at some point and time, and I don't like to guess on issues, but I just doubt that any of these homeowners will ever see any money that is near the cost of the 3 lowest priced units, but we will soon see the whole truth, when this project fully takes off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sure the homeowners sold at a nice profit, and it is my understanding that at least a few of them were well represented by legal counsel. Drakeford is assuming the risk, therefore he should get the gain from the later sale. Seems like a win-win situation to me.

Edited June 11, 2005 by ElricSeven

[dubone]

these floorplans seem very unique and interesting.

they have fairly large little courtyards, terraces, garages and rooms, and it is interesting how the shared walls are so minimal, with closets futher buffering the sound.

i must say, though, that some design choices are curious to me... in many places, they sectioned off a hallway that just as easily could have been merged into the bedroom. laundry rooms are also fairly randomly located. also, with such a premium on space, i was surprised to see a secondary staircase in many of the plans.

the prices are high, for sure, but these townhouses fill a niche for large townhouses in a prime urban location.

[TrueLight]

I'm sure the homeowners sold at a nice profit, and it is my understanding that at least a few of them were well represented by legal counsel.  Drakeford is assuming the risk, therefore he should get the gain from the later sale.  Seems like a win-win situation to me.

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I too believe that when all is said and done and when everything has made the full circle, then yes it will truly be a win-win situation. Thank you

[TrueLight]

these floorplans seem very unique and interesting.

i must say, though, that some design choices are curious to me... in many places, they sectioned off a hallway that just as easily could have been merged into the bedroom.  laundry rooms are also fairly randomly located.  also, with such a premium on space, i was surprised to see a secondary staircase in many of the plans. 

the prices are high, for sure, but these townhouses fill a niche for large townhouses in a prime urban location.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I too find several aspects of the project curious and in some cases the floor plans just don't make sense. I would just like for people to want to stay in the neighborhood, but I guess that is the old-fashioned side of me coming out. Thank you for the opportunity to speak in this forum. Have a Great Day!

[cinco]

hey, does anybody have other renderings of the renwick - other than one that shows the pool with those ridiculous columns? i have only seen that one...and i have to say i wouldn't care that was built or not. seems to me a design on par with south charlotte (perhaps SP) - not DT. if there are other renderings of this could someone direct me...i would love to have my mind changed about it.

[atlrvr]

hey,  does anybody have other renderings of the renwick - other than one that shows the pool with those ridiculous columns?  i have only seen that one...and i have to say i wouldn't care that was built or not.  seems to me a design on par with south charlotte (perhaps SP) - not DT.  if there are other renderings of this could someone direct me...i would love to have my mind changed about it.

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Go to http://www.therenwick.com and click on the different menu items....they aren't great renderings, but you can see at least 3 different views.

[cinco]

Go to http://www.therenwick.com and click on the different menu items....they aren't great renderings, but you can see at least 3 different views.

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ennh...doesn't do much for me. i do like the waterfountain - you could make wish everyday.

thanks for the link atlrvr, now that my opinion has been stated i'll refrain from other renwick posts.

[ElricSeven]

Center City Inn is now totally gone. I went by this morning and the only thing on the site is a huge pile of rubble and a couple of dump trucks hauling it away. "Let the Games Begin !"

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Nice. I'm looking at Courtside and 15th floor is poured, they're pouring the columns to support 16. Then 17th, its roof, and they're done with the superstructure. I also notice them bricking in the parking garage on the side next to the Autumn Living Center. Court 6's foundation walls are about 5 feet high.

My view of M-Street by Drakeford also shows they're really moving along, I'd anticipate foundation pouring here soon.

The press and others have been ignoring the non-high-rise projects, but from a number of new residents standpoint, they shouldn't be. M-Street and Court 6 have a lot of units. Court 6 has about 80 units, which is pretty comparable to the 104 of Courtside. I can't recally how many will be in the M-Street development, but it looks pretty big from here. I'm guessing we'll add about 1,000 residents in the next year, not even including J&W's students.

[graydog]

M Street will have 67 residential units and 6 commercial units, according to the purchase and sale agreement.

[ElricSeven]

M Street will have 67 residential units and 6 commercial units, according to the purchase and sale agreement.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Nice. So in First Ward alone, you've got 251 units being added in the next 6 to 8 mos. What would be a fair estimate of the number of residents per unit? About 1.5 maybe. I notice that in the townhomes of Skyline Terrace there are, in most units, two people. So let's say 375 people in just 1st Ward. Throw in 230 S. Tryon and Johnson & Wales' new enterring class and we'll be hopping. Soon we'll be hearing, "Center City, with 11,000 residents,..." in every Doug Smith article. Anything else going to be done in the next 12 mos.?

[ElricSeven]

The Arena disrupted the corridor as a major traffic thoroughfare, so Caldwell will be converted to 2 directions, Brevard will get pedestrian amenties, and the South Blvd/277 interchange will be redesigned.  Convention Center, HOF, CTC, Arena, Imaginon and future First Ward Park  pedestrians will all be directed to that corridor.  The historic structures such as Treloar, the storefronts by Grace Church, and the storefronts at Trade and Brevard will provide some older charm, while there are many blocks of vacant/semi-vacant land that the city wants to spur into action to future support those goals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Speaking of Levine, when is his latest plan coming out?