First Ward Urban Village / North Tryon Vision Plan

[11 HouseBZ]

8 hours ago, j-man said:

I’m still wishing that this lot becomes the next urban park. Every ward needs one. There’s already First Ward, & Romare Beardon (spelling might be off) I think this would be great for the new residents and Uptown visitors. 

Completely agree about needing more parks, but First Ward is only a block and a half out of frame. Maybe whomever develops this can include a small linear greenway/ park leading to First Wards? Kinda like 300 S. Tryon. 

[j-man]

24 minutes ago, 11 HouseBZ said:

Completely agree about needing more parks, but First Ward is only a block and a half out of frame. Maybe whomever develops this can include a small linear greenway/ park leading to First Wards? Kinda like 300 S. Tryon. 

Yeah I can see that. I just wanted something really big for a lot of outdoor activities. 

[Norm2]

3 hours ago, j-man said:

Yeah I can see that. I just wanted something really big for a lot of outdoor activities. 

4th Ward already has a park, but it's several blocks away from Tryon and in a heavily residential area. Maybe it could be revamped one day.

Edited February 10, 2020 by norm21499

[Rufus]

How many uptown parks do we need? Honest question. I'd rather see these lots built up so that the parks around the CBD have great density. Each ward has it's own "central park," so why do we need to push for more? 

[j-man]

32 minutes ago, Rufus said:

How many uptown parks do we need? Honest question. I'd rather see these lots built up so that the parks around the CBD have great density. Each ward has it's own "central park," so why do we need to push for more? 

I don’t know if you actually read my post but I said each ward only needs one major park. It helps get people outdoors, it brings foot traffic for retail and restaurants and makes the city feel more lively. I too do not want Parks all over uptown but saying I want one major on in each ward is not bad at all. If anything the older ones should be done away with or redone. 

[Rufus]

1 hour ago, j-man said:

I don’t know if you actually read my post but I said each ward only needs one major park. It helps get people outdoors, it brings foot traffic for retail and restaurants and makes the city feel more lively. I too do not want Parks all over uptown but saying I want one major on in each ward is not bad at all. If anything the older ones should be done away with or redone. 

No worries, but this location is technically in First Ward, which has a park. And Fourth Ward has a park. 

While I disagree with you on a park at this location, I do think that one thing that is missing is a public gathering space that isn't a park. Plazas get a bad rap, but we are in a new age of pedestrian plazas and gathering spaces, and I think this area would be great to have one. It looks like Spirit Square will have one in front of the library, but maybe another would be great too. It would be great for the city to look at what NYC Dept. of Transportation is doing with their plaza program, and how they activate streets and sidewalks. And I say all of this as someone who works for the Plaza Program in NYC. 

[j-man]

18 minutes ago, Rufus said:

No worries, but this location is technically in First Ward, which has a park. And Fourth Ward has a park. 

While I disagree with you on a park at this location, I do think that one thing that is missing is a public gathering space that isn't a park. Plazas get a bad rap, but we are in a new age of pedestrian plazas and gathering spaces, and I think this area would be great to have one. It looks like Spirit Square will have one in front of the library, but maybe another would be great too. It would be great for the city to look at what NYC Dept. of Transportation is doing with their plaza program, and how they activate streets and sidewalks. And I say all of this as someone who works for the Plaza Program in NYC. 

I see what you’re saying but I think Charlotte  has been doing quite well in the Urban Landscape architecture for Uptown and I feel like nothing is better than a park. And the lot I circled is the smallest undeveloped block on the north side of uptown and i think it would be just enough for public gathering space. And funny you mentioned plaza because I was thinking if this spot was to be a park, then a plaza could go right across from it in that area directly across from the Ellis just like how Romare Beardon has that combination. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by j-man

[kermit]

5 minutes ago, Rufus said:

No worries, but this location is technically in First Ward, which has a park. And Fourth Ward has a park. 

While I disagree with you on a park at this location, I do think that one thing that is missing is a public gathering space that isn't a park. Plazas get a bad rap, but we are in a new age of pedestrian plazas and gathering spaces, and I think this area would be great to have one. It looks like Spirit Square will have one in front of the library, but maybe another would be great too. It would be great for the city to look at what NYC Dept. of Transportation is doing with their plaza program, and how they activate streets and sidewalks. And I say all of this as someone who works for the Plaza Program in NYC. 

Completely agree on Plaza's -- its critically important that they are publicly owned (unlike the Hearst plaza) for free speech purposes.

I think the current uptown park situation is OK (the current state of Marshall Park being the exception).  4th Ward  park might be a little small, but its super pleasant. I was at Bearden yesterday and it had a real mid-winter 'over-loved' feel, it was kinda beat up. Also don't forget Frasier Park. Alexander Street Park is also a pretty great place, but it could not be more walled off from Uptown.

 

I think more linear parks would really benefit uptown. Use the rail trail model in Southend to add ped corridors with small bumpouts for local recreational uses. This could help connect uptown to decent green spaces just outside 277 (Sugar Creek).  An Indianapolis Cultural Trail kind of thing would work. I also think the 'rail trail' in uptown needs to be converted into a real 'rail trail' routing peds and bikes though station platforms is a bad idea -- this needs to become a core route though Uptown.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Rufus said:

No worries, but this location is technically in First Ward, which has a park. And Fourth Ward has a park. 

While I disagree with you on a park at this location, I do think that one thing that is missing is a public gathering space that isn't a park. Plazas get a bad rap, but we are in a new age of pedestrian plazas and gathering spaces, and I think this area would be great to have one. It looks like Spirit Square will have one in front of the library, but maybe another would be great too. It would be great for the city to look at what NYC Dept. of Transportation is doing with their plaza program, and how they activate streets and sidewalks. And I say all of this as someone who works for the Plaza Program in NYC. 

I'm working on a campaign to have Levine Avenue for the arts closed permanently for a 1.25 acre public plaza, much like what it was like for Charlotte Shout. 

[j-man]

3 minutes ago, kermit said:

Completely agree on Plaza's -- its critically important that they are publicly owned (unlike the Hearst plaza) for free speech purposes.

I think the current uptown park situation is OK (the current state of Marshall Park being the exception).  4th Ward  park might be a little small, but its super pleasant. I was at Bearden yesterday and it had a real mid-winter 'over-loved' feel, it was kinda beat up. Also don't forget Frasier Park. Alexander Street Park is also a pretty great place, but it could not be more walled off from Uptown.

 

I think more linear parks would really benefit uptown. Use the rail trail model in Southend to add ped corridors with small bumpouts for local recreational uses. This could help connect uptown to decent green spaces just outside 277 (Sugar Creek).  An Indianapolis Cultural Trail kind of thing would work. I also think the 'rail trail' in uptown needs to be converted into a real 'rail trail' routing peds and bikes though station platforms is a bad idea -- this needs to become a core route though Uptown.

I love that idea from you both on linear parks. My dream would be for SouthEnd to actually get a long linear park near the light rial but it’s pretty much all developed. Lol I just think with all those apartments, having a nice park right across the street would be really beneficial. And beautiful to look at. 

[j-man]

I feel like there is momentum for more growth within the northern portion of Uptown. And hopefully they throw out this North Tryon vision plans for smaller blocks of growth with low rise buildings. This will make the rest of Uptown look like SouthEnd instead of really tall dense development.  

Edited February 10, 2020 by j-man

[Rufus]

23 minutes ago, j-man said:

I feel like there is momentum for more growth within the northern portion of Uptown. And hopefully they throw out this North Tryon vision plans for smaller blocks of growth with low rise buildings. This will make the rest of Uptown look like SouthEnd instead of really tall dense development.  

@j-man I promise I am not trying to single you out or come after you. You're raising some good points. If I can speculate, I doubt First Ward will develop like its southern counterparts. I think the Ellis, and maybe one or two towers at Spirit Square will be the tallest in the ward, and I am ok with that. I think where First can excel is building out the great grid that exists. It has such great bones, and some historical structures. I hope that its design really is carefully approached for great execution. Honestly, one tower above 400', and then everything else below 300' is fine. But nice urban blocks of development to take advantage of the existing bones. 

But who knows...this is finally starting to gather some momentum with Spirit Square, and we have to contend with Levine, so I can only hope in 25 years that this looks different. 

[Madison Parkitect]

1 hour ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

I'm working on a campaign to have Levine Avenue for the arts closed permanently for a 1.25 acre public plaza, much like what it was like for Charlotte Shout. 

This absolutely needs to happen, it's insane that Levine Ave is open to cars. It should only be  pedestrian with removable bollards in case of delivery needs, and I can't believe anyone ever thought otherwise. It's the biggest no-brainer in uptown.

[j-man]

46 minutes ago, Rufus said:

@j-man I promise I am not trying to single you out or come after you. You're raising some good points. If I can speculate, I doubt First Ward will develop like its southern counterparts. I think the Ellis, and maybe one or two towers at Spirit Square will be the tallest in the ward, and I am ok with that. I think where First can excel is building out the great grid that exists. It has such great bones, and some historical structures. I hope that its design really is carefully approached for great execution. Honestly, one tower above 400', and then everything else below 300' is fine. But nice urban blocks of development to take advantage of the existing bones. 

But who knows...this is finally starting to gather some momentum with Spirit Square, and we have to contend with Levine, so I can only hope in 25 years that this looks different. 

Ok I’m glad you said that at the beginning lol. But I kinda disagree. Sure I don’t want any of think the historic structures will be demolished but I think if more companies put their headquarters in Charlotte I see that happening for this area. I really believe that if Amazon was to have been granted to Charlotte and needed a dense campus that it would most likely go in this area.  I don’t know, I just  doubt that all of the coming developments will only be fed to the Southside. 

Edited February 10, 2020 by j-man

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Madison Parkitect said:

This absolutely needs to happen, it's insane that Levine Ave is open to cars. It should only be  pedestrian with removable bollards in case of delivery needs, and I can't believe anyone ever thought otherwise. It's the biggest no-brainer in uptown.

Can I use that as a quote? '"Local architect says " It's the biggest no-brainer in uptown.'"

Edited February 10, 2020 by Guest

[turbocraig]

1 hour ago, ricky_davis_fan_21 said:

Can I use that as a quote? '"Local architect says " It's the biggest no-brainer in uptown.'"

He’s right.  Besides, the handful of times I’ve found myself driving on that little section of street I get the immediate feeling like I’m not supposed to be doing this.    

[Niner National]

19 minutes ago, turbocraig said:

He’s right.  Besides, the handful of times I’ve found myself driving on that little section of street I get the immediate feeling like I’m not supposed to be doing this.    

I feel like that's the feeling Levine gets every time he wants to start a project in First Ward.

[CarolinaDaydreamin]

49 minutes ago, Niner National said:

I feel like that's the feeling Levine gets every time he wants to start a project in First Ward.

No that's the feeling of the "lenders" when he walks in the door...

[HighRiseHillbilly]

4 hours ago, turbocraig said:

He’s right.  Besides, the handful of times I’ve found myself driving on that little section of street I get the immediate feeling like I’m not supposed to be doing this.    

I tried to quote him to say exactly this, but your post popped up. Glad I'm not the only one.

[CLT>]

On 2/10/2020 at 9:35 AM, norm21499 said:

4th Ward already has a park, but it's several blocks away from Tryon and in a heavily residential area. Maybe it could be revamped one day.

It actually was just revamped, new plaza and fountain on the corner, and new plantings throughout. It's the perfect neighborhood park for Fourth Ward.

[KJHburg]

Great update story about First Ward N Tryon blocks from the Biz Journal.  However not much good news in this subscriber article in the sense of partners and construction starting soon.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2020/02/24/what-details-of-long-anticipated-uptown.html

""But nearly two years after the RFQ was issued, it's still not publicly known who is leading the redevelopment of Seventh and Tryon, what non-civic uses the project could include, what it could look like and whether public money will be needed — and, if so, how much.""

The persistent rumor among those in real estate is that Metropolitan Partnership, a developer based in the Washington, D.C., area, has been working on the project as master developer, though a formal agreement apparently hasn't been finalized. Metropolitan's original entry was submitted in partnership with The Baupost Group, a large hedge fund. Other developers invited to submit a plan included groups like Cousins Properties, Portman Holdings and Related Group. But being invited to submit a plan does not mean all groups responded with a proposal.  Inlivian said Monday that it submitted a proposal to build mixed-income apartments affordable to tenants with incomes from 30% of the area median income to those that can afford market-rate apartments, revitalizing the former Barringer Hotel into a boutique hotel and parking. Affordable-housing units would be interspersed with — and indistinguishable from — market-rate apartments.""

seems if the old Hall House is a part of the plan or what is a question.  I sure hope so as they are several hotel chains that love older buildings like Hotel Indigo, among others that would love this building.    So until this developer is announced nothing is going to happen.  Library fundraising is ongoing though.  

[DMann]

21c Museum Hotel please!!!!

[turbocraig]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

Great update story about First Ward N Tryon blocks from the Biz Journal.  However not much good news in this subscriber article in the sense of partners and construction starting soon.

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2020/02/24/what-details-of-long-anticipated-uptown.html

""But nearly two years after the RFQ was issued, it's still not publicly known who is leading the redevelopment of Seventh and Tryon, what non-civic uses the project could include, what it could look like and whether public money will be needed — and, if so, how much.""

The persistent rumor among those in real estate is that Metropolitan Partnership, a developer based in the Washington, D.C., area, has been working on the project as master developer, though a formal agreement apparently hasn't been finalized. Metropolitan's original entry was submitted in partnership with The Baupost Group, a large hedge fund. Other developers invited to submit a plan included groups like Cousins Properties, Portman Holdings and Related Group. But being invited to submit a plan does not mean all groups responded with a proposal.  Inlivian said Monday that it submitted a proposal to build mixed-income apartments affordable to tenants with incomes from 30% of the area median income to those that can afford market-rate apartments, revitalizing the former Barringer Hotel into a boutique hotel and parking. Affordable-housing units would be interspersed with — and indistinguishable from — market-rate apartments.""

seems if the old Hall House is a part of the plan or what is a question.  I sure hope so as they are several hotel chains that love older buildings like Hotel Indigo, among others that would love this building.    So until this developer is announced nothing is going to happen.  Library fundraising is ongoing though.  

At this pace, they’ll miss this cycle, mothball it through the next recession, then maybe halfway through the next boom think about reviving it.  Maybe.  I don’t see anything realistically happening here for another decade.  That’s my glass-half-empty take on this.   But what do I know?

[KJHburg]

I think the Publix with office building at 10 Tryon and the new Library can really jump start this and lets not forget a block away is the Lennar Ellis tower and Homewood Suites hotel both under construction.  Anytime you involve government in the process it slows it all down remember Brooklyn Village? 

[Niner National]

1 hour ago, KJHburg said:

I think the Publix with office building at 10 Tryon and the new Library can really jump start this and lets not forget a block away is the Lennar Ellis tower and Homewood Suites hotel both under construction.  Anytime you involve government in the process it slows it all down remember Brooklyn Village? 

Until the homeless shelters stop encouraging beggars to congregate on the North Side of Uptown, I think movement will continue to be slow. I feel bad for the Publix employees that are going to have to bear the brunt of this issue every day.