First Ward Urban Village / North Tryon Vision Plan

[B Randy]

11 minutes ago, Rufus said:

If this is the case, it's a cop out for a number of reasons. 

1.) I am tired of older buildings being admired for just their street front design. There is no consideration for the scale and intimacy that the other sides provide. No buildings are built like that any more, and it really should be treasured to show how buildings have evolved and adapted based on use and growth, etc. 

2.) It comes across as fake altruism on the part of InLivian, and that's worse than putting up faux historic details. 

Agree.  Terrible approach.  Unsophisticated at best.  No consideration for the urban fabric and scale of the city.   

[DMann]

The guy I talked with told me that the uplift of the building is substantial, plumbing, electrical, etc. and the costs are prohibitive.  His words not mine.

[tozmervo]

Because new buildings don't have plumbing and electrical, don't cha know. 

[KJHburg]

4 hours ago, DMann said:

The guy I talked with told me that the uplift of the building is substantial, plumbing, electrical, etc. and the costs are prohibitive.  His words not mine.

that is why they should sell it and build their little stick built building next door and what about all the land the county owns at the Hal Marshall building why that block could be a big stick built 5 story apartment complex and the county owns the land! 

[nicholas]

20 hours ago, DMann said:

The guy I talked with told me that the uplift of the building is substantial, plumbing, electrical, etc. and the costs are prohibitive.  His words not mine.

It probably is more code-dependent than anything else.  From what I understand, when codes change, a building that is still occupied/in continuous operation will be grandfathered in, but a building that has been vacated/no longer in operation must be brought up to current code if and when it is activated again.

Obviously replacing electrical/plumbing/etc is EXPENSIVE, especially when it's an old building with who knows what behind the walls.  It would be nice if there was a way to gradually bring it up to code, like allowing immediate occupancy (as long as it is deemed to be safe) but, at the end of a set time period, require up-to-code electrical, and then after another set time period, require up-to-code plumbing, etc.  I think this would help spread out the costs, and perhaps make it more feasible to save some of these older buildings.

[dubone]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Historic_Places_listings_in_Mecklenburg_County,_North_Carolina

Here are the remaining National Historic Registered buildings in Mecklenburg.   (102 listings,  21 are districts/farms/mills/cemeteries, and 5 are already gone. )   All of the other commercial towers (Hotel Charlotte and Independence Building) are already leveled.   

Hall House was already renovated in the 1980s, so it was substantially updated for codes and is in surprisingly good shape despite being public housing for almost half its use.  

 

Tearing down a historic registered tower in reusable shape for low rise stick built apartments is unconscionable.   The 2 acre site was supposed to be a renovated 14 story hotel, 14 story residential tower, a larger footprint for the office tower.   To swap that for a 6 story matchstick building with 1/4 public housing is exactly what this site does not need. 

Somewhat lost in this discussion is the fact that North Tryon from 7th to 12th is decaying and dying.   Empty restaurant spaces, stalled developments and street life that is almost entirely homeless.    The purpose of the investment of 7th @ Tryon project was to infuse the area with new life and balance the decay and blight that is forming in the area.     

The obsession with the Charlotte Housing Authority to keep this land for its affordable housing at the expense of a much larger redevelopment and the destruction of yet another historic structure will contribute to further decline in North Tryon.       If they think 4th Ward and 1st Ward do not already have substantial affordable housing means they haven't done the analysis.    

[cltbwimob]

@SaveHallHouse is live on twitter and there will be a website soon.

Give it a follow.

[Nick2]

4 hours ago, cltbwimob said:

@SaveHallHouse is live on twitter and there will be a website soon.

Give it a follow.

Here's a link for the lazy:

Check out SaveTheHallHouse (@SaveHallHouse): https://twitter.com/SaveHallHouse?s=09

 

[cltbwimob]

1 hour ago, Nick2 said:

Here's a link for the lazy:

Check out SaveTheHallHouse (@SaveHallHouse): https://twitter.com/SaveHallHouse?s=09

 

I hope this is successful and I hope after the Hall House is saved it morphs into a grassroots effort to save historic buildings all over our area.  History matters, and so much of our historical building stock-the stock which hasn’t been torn down yet-is in danger by virtue of the fact that it was built in Charlotte.  Although sparse compared to other cities, Charlotte has some superbly beautiful old architecture and it should be defended from ill-conceived efforts to destroy it.

[Nick2]

On 7/24/2020 at 7:21 PM, cltbwimob said:

I hope this is successful and I hope after the Hall House is saved it morphs into a grassroots effort to save historic buildings all over our area.  History matters, and so much of our historical building stock-the stock which hasn’t been torn down yet-is in danger by virtue of the fact that it was built in Charlotte.  Although sparse compared to other cities, Charlotte has some superbly beautiful old architecture and it should be defended from ill-conceived efforts to destroy it.

Absolutely. They might just ignore it but we can call and email.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Nick2

[11 HouseBZ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't CHA/Inlivian own Edwin towers? If "affordable housing in uptown" is their claim, why aren't they developing an entire block that houses only one building? Tear down that eye sore rather than Hall.

Edited July 25, 2020 by 11 HouseBZ

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, 11 HouseBZ said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't CHA/Inlivian own Edwin towers? If "affordable housing" is their claim, why aren't they developing an entire block that houses only one building? Tear down that eye sore rather than Hall.

Yes they do own Edwin Towers my disabled aunt lived here many years until her death.   Free history lesson:   in the 1970s Fourth Ward was a dump and one of the largest brothels in Charlotte if not the largest was right across Poplar St and now that home is lovingly restored to a showpiece.  NCNB now BofA really jump started development there with loans for condos and townhomes and home renovations.  But back in the day we did not like to visit Aunt Louise at night because of all the hookers on the street! 

[ertley]

On 7/25/2020 at 3:31 PM, 11 HouseBZ said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't CHA/Inlivian own Edwin towers? If "affordable housing in uptown" is their claim, why aren't they developing an entire block that houses only one building? Tear down that eye sore rather than Hall.

THIS. But, if I may offer a humble suggestion: Rather than suggest tearing down Edwin Towers, since that would be a huge and costly undertaking, in addition to the disruption of the residents, I *seriously* think there should be advocacy for developing the REST OF THE BLOCK. Inlivan can easily build the same number of units proposed for the Hall House site by building (potentially) the *exact same* building being proposed along 10th Street, and of course there's the Church and Poplar street frontages available too for maximal redevelopment. I actually think such a scheme could genuinely improve the experience of ET residents by providing further amenities, etc. (Hell, if every other apartment building in Charlotte gets rooftop terraces, why can't the residents of Edwin Towers? Make green roofs and/or terraces a feature of the new adjacent building.)

I genuinely think any and all calls for the preservation of Hall House should be unified in message, and having both an alternate proposal at hand, in addition to making Inlivan looking as bad and inept as possible, is key. By pointing out Inlivan's... well... hypocrisy, in addition to their ineptitude, of sitting on incredibly valuable real estate that they're doing nothing with, while both simultaneously squandering other, even more valuable real estate only TWO BLOCKS away while unnecessarily complicating and diminishing important North Tryon redevelopment plans, you can really create a major PR debacle.

Just my two cents' worth.

*EXCELLENT* point, @11 HouseBZ

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by ertley

[11 HouseBZ]

4 hours ago, ertley said:

I genuinely think any and all calls for the preservation of Hall House should be unified in message, and having both an alternate proposal at hand, in addition to making Inlivan looking as bad and inept as possible, is key. By pointing out Inlivan's... well... hypocrisy, in addition to their ineptitude, of sitting on incredibly valuable real estate that they're doing nothing with, while both simultaneously squandering other, even more valuable real estate only TWO BLOCKS away while unnecessarily complicating and diminishing important North Tryon redevelopment plans, you can really create a major PR debacle

Jason and Clayton. Make. This. Happen. 

[atlrvr]

I haven't followed this as closely as others, but this strikes me as a vanity project for the CHA.  The antedote for lack of affordable housing in the Center City doesn't mean using the most expensive land (Tryon St) in the city to fill that need, and CHA knows it.  Developing the units here doesn't generate equality better than at Edwin Tower land, or Hal Marshall, or 2nd Ward or Levine Land, and is in fact resulting in fewer units due to land cost differential over a few blocks.  This is CHA thumbing their nose at everyone because they can, which I'm actually fine with, since I'm a big fan of landowner rights, etc etc, but the city and county need to be better stewards of taxpayer money, and they are allowing CHA to guilt them into funding a vanity project.

[Yeahdoug]

On 7/25/2020 at 4:43 PM, KJHburg said:

Yes they do own Edwin Towers my disabled aunt lived here many years until her death.   Free history lesson:   in the 1970s Fourth Ward was a dump and one of the largest brothels in Charlotte if not the largest was right across Poplar St and now that home is lovingly restored to a showpiece.  NCNB now BofA really jump started development there with loans for condos and townhomes and home renovations.  But back in the day we did not like to visit Aunt Louise at night because of all the hookers on the street! 

Now we have to go all the way up to Sugar Creek. 

[cltcane]

47 minutes ago, Yeahdoug said:

Now we have to go all the way up to Sugar Creek. 

Not necessarily.  I live in said former brothel, and one of my former neighbors was briefly a side hustler.

Edited July 27, 2020 by cltcane

[KJHburg]

This Hall House is still standing and probably won't ever be torn down in Old Salem in Winston Salem.  NC's other large cities value and treasure older buildings especially now need proof visit downtown Asheville, Winston, Greensboro, Durham, Raleigh or Wilmington.  

See my post in Learning from Other Places about how other NC cities would never consider tearing down a historical building like the Hall House Barringer Hotel in uptown like CHA Inlivian wants to do.   Old Barringer would be a perfect Hotel Indigo or another boutique hotel and there is still land to build affordable housing behind it.   #saveHallHouse 

[KJHburg]

In other news this parcel is under contract now just outside 277 loop on N Tryon.

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/The-Vistas-at-North-Tryon/15361407/

[j-man]

4 hours ago, KJHburg said:

In other news this parcel is under contract now just outside 277 loop on N Tryon.

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/The-Vistas-at-North-Tryon/15361407/

The possibilities!! Looks very office space friendly. Sadly this is where a lot of homeless people roam. 

[Desert Power]

6 hours ago, KJHburg said:

This Hall House is still standing and probably won't ever be torn down in Old Salem in Winston Salem.  NC's other large cities value and treasure older buildings especially now need proof visit downtown Asheville, Winston, Greensboro, Durham, Raleigh or Wilmington.  

See my post in Learning from Other Places about how other NC cities would never consider tearing down a historical building like the Hall House Barringer Hotel in uptown like CHA Inlivian wants to do.   Old Barringer would be a perfect Hotel Indigo or another boutique hotel and there is still land to build affordable housing behind it.   #saveHallHouse 

I do think other cities can overdo preservation to the point of hurting growth/affordability. But, come on, this is one of the last historical buildings left in all of uptown.

1 hour ago, j-man said:

5 hours ago, KJHburg said:

In other news this parcel is under contract now just outside 277 loop on N Tryon.

https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/The-Vistas-at-North-Tryon/15361407/

The possibilities!! Looks very office space friendly. Sadly this is where a lot of homeless people roam. 

Yep, even before the current amazingly large tent city. Hard to imagine much so close to the shelters/gov't service buildings.

[Guest]

In other news this parcel is under contract now just outside 277 loop on N Tryon.
https://www.loopnet.com/Listing/The-Vistas-at-North-Tryon/15361407/

Already been presubmitted as multifamily.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Blue_Devil]

28 minutes ago, Tyree Ricardo said:

Already been presubmitted as multifamily.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry, what does that mean? Apartments are already planned? 

[KJHburg]

1 hour ago, Blue_Devil said:

Sorry, what does that mean? Apartments are already planned? 

Yes an apartment complex has been submitted for approval to Char Meck on that site.  That is probably the highest and best use due to the fact office tenants I dont think would cross 277 as many dont want to go up that far on N Tryon now.

[Blue_Devil]

Just now, KJHburg said:

Yes an apartment complex has been submitted for approval to Char Meck on that site.  That is probably the highest and best use due to the fact office tenants I dont think would cross 277 as many dont want to go up that far on N Tryon now.

Apartments will be interesting with the homeless there. It will definitely help with density.