First Ward Urban Village / North Tryon Vision Plan

[jednc]

Levine does own many blocks uptown. I, for one, am ready to see something start happening with this huge parcel of land. This has been discussed for years now. There is an expression that I def. think applies: "either pi&& or get off the pot!" Let's make something happen there already. I'm not even sure if I count UNCC. They would be building uptown no matter who owned the land. This really doesn't reflect any movement on Levine's part. I'm ready to see him, with his millions, start to make this urban village a reality. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying...I realize Twelve and UNCC will be part of this village. All I'm saying is...those two projects really represent other people taking the initiative. Levine has never said he simply wanted to be a "middle man" where he assembled and then resold the land. His stated intent has always been to be the developer. So....develop already!

[49er]

this is downtown's biggest opportunity for a shopping district so lets hope it happens. Tryon St has missed that boat and features either blank walls or spaces upfitted as restaurants. its a nice street but really has little opportunity as a true shopping district

[dubone]

Levine does not own 16 blocks of uptown, however, he might be assuming that he will eventually gain control of the county/city owned blocks near his land. He might even own options on those blocks.

Here are the Levine blocks in First Ward in red, and the blue blocks are the county/city owned land that are part of the Hal Marshal site, the arena site, and the CHA. I have read that Faison (Levine's parner) was chosen for the CHA land at 6th and Davidson, so I included that block on the graphic, although I believe it is still owned by the CHA.

16 is a stretch, even if you count the city/county land, as I seriously doubt he'd gain control of all those blocks, especially the ones around the arena.

However, I believe he used to own the Imaginon block, and possibly the 7th St Station block, so maybe he is counting those in the 16 as part of his village.

[Miesian Corners]

Belk Stores Services owned most of the ImaginOn block.

Any word on when George Jets...er...I mean Levine plas to tear down the Treleor (sp?) house at Brevard and 7th? He's let it fall apart. Doubt very seriously it could be saved at this point.

[crispin]

Levine does not own 16 blocks of uptown, however, he might be assuming that he will eventually gain control of the county/city owned blocks near his land. He might even own options on those blocks.

I can imagine nothing worse for uptown than Levine, our preeminent landbanker, gaining control of more land.

[swh1972]

Any of you lawyer types know if the city or county can use emminent domain to "force" Levine into action on his land. The risk being that if he does nothing, it is detrimental to surrounding development. This is kind of a spin on the recent Supreme Court case in the northeast that allows for emminent domain for commercial projects, where I believe that in the past it was only used for public projects, such as highways.

[Charlotte_native]

I think it would have been more appropriate to designate Levine's property in Green since that is the only way he sees it. It certainly isn't for the public good or for the progress of our city.

[turbocraig]

Any of you lawyer types know if the city or county can use emminent domain to "force" Levine into action on his land. The risk being that if he does nothing, it is detrimental to surrounding development. This is kind of a spin on the recent Supreme Court case in the northeast that allows for emminent domain for commercial projects, where I believe that in the past it was only used for public projects, such as highways.

I seriously doubt it. I believe that after that ludicrous ruling the Supreme Court handed down, several states enacted legislation that banned condemnation-for-private-development, probably in no small part to the huge public furor over the ruling. NC was one of those states, if I'm not mistaken

[ElricSeven]

Any of you lawyer types know if the city or county can use emminent domain to "force" Levine into action on his land. The risk being that if he does nothing, it is detrimental to surrounding development. This is kind of a spin on the recent Supreme Court case in the northeast that allows for emminent domain for commercial projects, where I believe that in the past it was only used for public projects, such as highways.

Zero chance. That holding is nowhere near as broad as most people think it is. The press just likes to promote hysteria and sell papers.

[monsoon]

Though I can't speak for Levine, if that were my property, I would be in no hurry right now to start developing expensive projects for this land given the high number of proposed but unbuilt projects that have been announced in the downtown area. If it is his goal to eventually make a lot of money on this land, then it is in his best interest to see what gets built out instead of jumping on the bandwagon right now and announce a project that will end up competing with the other projects. (some of which may not be built). There are more than 5000 condos proposed for this market so why would he want to add another one to the lot? The only exception to this would be if a developer were to offer him a lot of money for one of these parcels.

If my assumption is correct about his goal to make money on this property, then Levine is doing what is in his best interest which is what 99% of the property owners do in this city. If anything his reluctance to develop this land right now is a sign that he doesn't think the market is there.

[A2]

Though I can't speak for Levine, if that were my property, I would be in no hurry right now to start developing expensive projects for this land given the high number of proposed but unbuilt projects that have been announced in the downtown area. If it is his goal to eventually make a lot of money on this land, then it is in his best interest to see what gets built out instead of jumping on the bandwagon right now and announce a project that will end up competing with the other projects. (some of which may not be built). There are more than 5000 condos proposed for this market so why would he want to add another one to the lot? The only exception to this would be if a developer were to offer him a lot of money for one of these parcels.

If my assumption is correct about his goal to make money on this property, then Levine is doing what is in his best interest which is what 99% of the property owners do in this city. If anything his reluctance to develop this land right now is a sign that he doesn't think the market is there.

^^^As much as I hate what you typed metro, I agree 100%. His interests would be best served by allowing his land to rest as an island surface lots in a sea of development, thus propelling his profits ever higher. (if and when he sell or develops the highly desireable property)

While I hate this from an Urban Junkie stance, I find NO FAULT in his practices for being a capitalist.

God Bless America!

A2

Edited August 11, 2006 by A2

[dubone]

If Levine was Levine, he'd be in no hurry to anything at all ever.

Crispin, I agree with you. Levine's control of First Ward has turned that section into something as bad as (ugh) Second Ward. Now with the land swap, at least part of 2nd Ward could be built up. But Levine will still be earning parking revenues of his prime land.

[ElricSeven]

Though I can't speak for Levine, if that were my property, I would be in no hurry right now to start developing expensive projects for this land given the high number of proposed but unbuilt projects that have been announced in the downtown area. If it is his goal to eventually make a lot of money on this land, then it is in his best interest to see what gets built out instead of jumping on the bandwagon right now and announce a project that will end up competing with the other projects. (some of which may not be built). There are more than 5000 condos proposed for this market so why would he want to add another one to the lot? The only exception to this would be if a developer were to offer him a lot of money for one of these parcels.

If my assumption is correct about his goal to make money on this property, then Levine is doing what is in his best interest which is what 99% of the property owners do in this city. If anything his reluctance to develop this land right now is a sign that he doesn't think the market is there.

You would think he would have put some on the market right on the heels of the success of Courtside and before all those other announcements. What he's doing is not without business risk. Without much available land to develop, attention could shift elsewhere and potential profits on the sale or development of the land could stagnate or even fall for years. Eventually it would come back, but a sale at one peak with subsequent reinvestment is superior to a ten year hold with no gains. A lack of a gain each year is a lost opportunity.

If I were him, I'd sell off a few parcels a year and shift to other more-diversified investments.

[crispin]

You would think he would have put some on the market right on the heels of the success of Courtside and before all those other announcements. What he's doing is not without business risk. Without much available land to develop, attention could shift elsewhere and potential profits on the sale or development of the land could stagnate or even fall for years. Eventually it would come back, but a sale at one peak with subsequent reinvestment is superior to a ten year hold with no gains. A lack of a gain each year is a lost opportunity.

If I were him, I'd sell off a few parcels a year and shift to other more-diversified investments.

Unfortunately, I don't think this land is such a large part of the Levine family fortune. It's just a plaything.

But I'm still not sure it's good capitalism to hold that land off the market. It isn't really in the path of growth. Second Ward sits between the business district and the city's most affluent neighborhoods; the Levine land sits on the way to the railroad yards. It's apparently still economical to build single-family homes in that area.

I know, I know, it's uptown land. But there's a lot of empty uptown land and, even during the current "boom," only a very small portion is being converted to new development each year. It could be a generation or more before there is actual pressure on the Levine land -- ie, a lack of better parcels closer to Trade & Tryon.

In the meantime, it's up to Levine himself to make that land into something more.

And he doesn't seem to care.

[Mobuchu]

Ledge site

8-18-06

Renwick site

8-10-06

[mdadolfo]

Ledge site

8-18-06

Renwick site

8-10-06

Nice pics! Thanks.

Where is the Quad in Quarterside? Supponsingly the Quad was to be built first by Boulevard Centro. All units sold out within a few days. The Ledge's sale is a different story. Any sign of development of the Quad at all? I know someone waiting for the Quad to be built and that person is anxious to hear if a brick or two has appeared. In fact that person speaks so highly of David Furman and his accolades that we are all intrigued with the Quad development!

The Renwick seems like it's coming along.

[dubone]

The Quad site isn't visible in those photos. It is going at the corner of Myers and 6th, diagonally across from the firehouse.

[A2]

Quick question guys...

Do we know of any "connector projects" that are announced or soon to be announced, from Courtside to the Arena, and on up into the actual CBD?

The reason I ask is because the Urban experience is dramatically hampered (even by car) when you drive from First Ward (Courtside) through to the CBD. It really eats at me. I am not referring to Levine's land (at least I don't think I am )

Any ideas??????

A2

Edited August 20, 2006 by A2

[mdadolfo]

The Quad site isn't visible in those photos. It is going at the corner of Myers and 6th, diagonally across from the firehouse.

I appreciate the reminder. Many months ago, the question of the Firehouse was asked and several members of this forum replied with the noise problem around the town area. Although the diagonal landmark may be an influence on the future residences, the Quad was sold out within days versus the Ledge. And my friend has described where the Quad would be built within the block. The question was if any type of construction has begun on the Quad?

[atlrvr]

Quick question guys...

Do we know of any "connector projects" that are announced or soon to be announced, from Courtside to the Arena, and on up into the actual CBD?

The reason I ask is because the Urban experience is dramatically hampered (even by car) when you drive from First Ward (Courtside) through to the CBD. It really eats at me. I am not referring to Levine's land (at least I don't think I am )

Any ideas??????

A2

Not much in the works if you are talking about 6th St. between Caldwell and the LRT tracks.....if you expand that a little you have some projects that would help tremendously.

Twelve, Federal Courthouse, Furman project on the arena parcel....also in the works within first ward are Phase II apartments at the Renwick site and possibly some apartments across 6th from the community center where there is a fenced in gravel lot now (behind the Childrens Service Center)

[joshuacc]

Nice pics! Thanks.

Where is the Quad in Quarterside? Supponsingly the Quad was to be built first by Boulevard Centro. All units sold out within a few days. The Ledge's sale is a different story. Any sign of development of the Quad at all? I know someone waiting for the Quad to be built and that person is anxious to hear if a brick or two has appeared. In fact that person speaks so highly of David Furman and his accolades that we are all intrigued with the Quad development!

The Renwick seems like it's coming along.

The Ledge wasn't far from sold out fairly quick. When I reserved my unit there wasn't too much left. From what I was told the quad will be built first.

[mdadolfo]

The Ledge wasn't far from sold out fairly quick. When I reserved my unit there wasn't too much left. From what I was told the quad will be built first.

Joshuacc,

Thanks for your information. According to my source, BC was supposed to begin construction on the Quad during the Summer. It is amazing that the Quad and the Ledge would sell at those prices and the speed with a Firehouse Station at the corner. Will this be your primary residence?

[joshuacc]

Joshuacc,

Thanks for your information. According to my source, BC was supposed to begin construction on the Quad during the Summer. It is amazing that the Quad and the Ledge would sell at those prices and the speed with a Firehouse Station at the corner. Will this be your primary residence?

Yes, it will be primary. It's no difference between living there, court 6, courtside etc. It's a one way street, the fire truck has to pass many more projects when it leaves. If Charlotte plans to grow, we have to understand what city life is really like. I've lived in dense areas my whole life apart from here, and it's just the norm for noise. Hell I heard the fire truck at least two days a week at gateway with all the idiots constantly pulling fire alarms. From my understanding that is not an extremely busy station to begin with. I also believe you get a discount on your home insurance being so close to a fire station. I know for a one bedroom and an office, $180K uptown is a very reasonable price. I think the top floor units even maxed out around 280 psf. The building has a pool, some great retail space, and really good pricing. I considered looking at 210 and 12 when it comes around, but figured this would be a better deal as a starter condo. I wasn't really ready to overextend myself with a $350 and up psf condo at my age.

[sleightofhand]

^You made a great investment! I begged my friends to get over to BC and snatch up a one bedroom condo. Not a one of them listened to me.

[mdadolfo]

Arigatou for both of the responses above. It's good to hear of the incentives. BC's block of three buildings seems like it will be a nice micro 'neighborhood' in itself. My friend is looking forward to the day it's completed.