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First Ward Urban Village / North Tryon Vision Plan


uptownliving

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I hope people become aware of this, seems like they don't mind ruining their reputation. This could however be great news for blvd centro. It could give them incentive to pre sell the row now also. If I were at the Renwick, I'd be certainly looking at all the projects at quarterside now.

The few remaining units, those reserved or set aside by Centro Blvd, are up for sale at a high price. The Row will doubtfully be no more economical from those of the previously priced Renwick.

The difference between the sales pitch of the Renwick and of Centro is the Renwick was given to Remax agents to sale. Quarterside has David Furman's professionals. No agents are allowed. For proof, David Furman's niece was the sales agent for the Ledge.

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^I'm not sure there is that much difference in their approaches. The Remax Sales Agents assignd to the Renwick have been the same few individuals for the last two and a half years - they just happen to work for Remax. The Blvd Centro "Professionals" are sales agents - they just work directly for the developer. In either case, a buyer can get their own Agent to represent them in the process. I think the difference comes in Blvd Centro's track record in Charlotte. Furman's projects sell out quickly (probably due to a high % of investers who are confident that he will deliver on time). One other difference is that the Renwick Agents will now need to re-sell the project due to the recent issue with the Developer.

BTW, UrbanCharlotte, nice pictures, thanks for posting.

Edited by swh1972
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  • 2 weeks later...

I took this pic from the 7th McDowell intersection this weekend. The crane is for the Renwick project, but all the land cleared in the foreground is part of the Quaterside project. This view is dramatically different from just a couple months ago as illustrated by both pics below. They were taken from the same spot, just a couple months apart.

ledgeskybefore.jpg

ledgesky.jpg

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I just spoke to my good friend who owned a contract at the Renwick and he confirmed what we have been discussing over the last several weeks regarding the contract cancellations. Under the advice of his lawyer, he refused to sign the contract cancellation document that he was originally sent, but the Renwick folks sent him a check for his $4,000 down payment anyway. Under that action, I'm assuming the developer just cancelled the contract without his signature. He said that his lawyer is currently trying to get an additional $10,000 on top of the down payment, but he's not too optimistic. Even if he were successful, it's still a big disappointment compared to the ~$100k he was hoping to make on the flip. Greedy and shameful indeed!

Edited by dman379
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Someone really should run an article about this....the best justice is for no one to buy any of the units when they are put back on the market.

As far as what seems reasonable in a lawsuit, I'm not an attorney, but he should at least be paid the average of the 10-year treasury yeild on his downpayment. Beyond that, it is easy for the developer to argue that if it was bought as an investment, there is an inherent risk with investing......getting his money back is better than a lot of people who bought Red Hat at $100.

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Someone really should run an article about this....the best justice is for no one to buy any of the units when they are put back on the market.

As far as what seems reasonable in a lawsuit, I'm not an attorney, but he should at least be paid the average of the 10-year treasury yeild on his downpayment. Beyond that, it is easy for the developer to argue that if it was bought as an investment, there is an inherent risk with investing......getting his money back is better than a lot of people who bought Red Hat at $100.

It all depends on the wording of the contract. They might have had an escape clause in there, but usually (not always, but usually) they're conditioned on something. My guess is that the letter mimicked the condition required to invoke their right to cancellation. Be that as it may, merely reciting the wording doesn't mean it is in fact true. Sort of like disclaimers which are wrong all the time. Big trucks that say "Not responsible for damage or injury caused by falling material." To which I say, "BS". If something falls off their truck and kills someone or damages something due to their negligence, then they're responsible. So, if I was that guy I would ask my attorney to read the contract closely and see exactly what is required for cancellation. That's what you fight about.

If it is an unconditional right of cancellation, then that might be more problematic. There might be some statutory regulation not allowing unconditional rights of cancellation on a RE contract. My specialty isn't RE law however.

In sum, don't just fold up and sign the check (waiving the right to contest) until some serious due-diligence has been performed by an attorney with experience in RE and contract law.

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I just spoke to my good friend who owned a contract at the Renwick and he confirmed what we have been discussing over the last several weeks regarding the contract cancellations. Under the advice of his lawyer, he refused to sign the contract cancellation document that he was originally sent, but the Renwick folks sent him a check for his $4,000 down payment anyway. Under that action, I'm assuming the developer just cancelled the contract without his signature. He said that his lawyer is currently trying to get an additional $10,000 on top of the down payment, but he's not too optimistic. Even if he were successful, it's still a big disappointment compared to the ~$100k he was hoping to make on the flip. Greedy and shameful indeed!

Wait...which is greedy and shameful - the fact that the developer is cancelling the contract or that your friend was looking to get rich by flipping a condo? :whistling:

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I just spoke to my good friend who owned a contract at the Renwick and he confirmed what we have been discussing over the last several weeks regarding the contract cancellations. Under the advice of his lawyer, he refused to sign the contract cancellation document that he was originally sent, but the Renwick folks sent him a check for his $4,000 down payment anyway. Under that action, I'm assuming the developer just cancelled the contract without his signature. He said that his lawyer is currently trying to get an additional $10,000 on top of the down payment, but he's not too optimistic. Even if he were successful, it's still a big disappointment compared to the ~$100k he was hoping to make on the flip. Greedy and shameful indeed!

We had a contract on a Renwick unit briefly, so I'm very familar with the project. It would have been extremely surprising (beyond belief) if your friend had made $100k. For what they were, those units were a little pricey. The days of !00k profits ended with the early Garden District projects. I'm actually wondering if Colonial if fact saved this development because it doesn't appear to have been handled well. The original developers pored a lot of marketing $ into this and got nowhere at a time when Centro was selling out midrises with only word-of-mouth.

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We had a contract on a Renwick unit briefly, so I'm very familar with the project. It would have been extremely surprising (beyond belief) if your friend had made $100k. For what they were, those units were a little pricey. The days of !00k profits ended with the early Garden District projects. I'm actually wondering if Colonial if fact saved this development because it doesn't appear to have been handled well. The original developers pored a lot of marketing $ into this and got nowhere at a time when Centro was selling out midrises with only word-of-mouth.

Colonial probably got this built, as nothing much was happening before they took it over. However, it is kind of a stretch to me to think that they didn't do their homework on the project, and bought it and then realized down the road that the costs would be more than what they would get back from the sale of the units. In my opinion, it was a calculated move. They knew what the contracts said, and felt they could get out of them once the financing was set.

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  • 2 weeks later...

My friend was the 4th person to go to contract on the Renwick back in June '04 and got in on a ~1600 sq. ft penthouse unit with a great city view for around $320k. I called the sales team several months ago to look into a similar unit for myself and they were then selling those without a city view for $400k and about to go through a price increase. As such, I think a $100k profit was definitely a possibility.

Is being upset at the loss of a potential $100k profit because the developer cancelled the contract greedy and shameful? I don't think so considering that he'd been waiting for the project to be complete for 2.5 years with his down payment earning the developer interest the entire time. Luckily he was smart enough to see the writing on the wall and bought another place while waiting for the Renwick to be completed. Otherwise, he would have continued paying rent while real estate prices increased considerably, only to be shafted and left out in the cold down the road by a greedy and shameful developer. Unfortunately, I'm sure there are many other singles, couples, and families that didn't have as much foresight to buy elsewhere while waiting.

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To me, what makes sense as a buyer, is that you would expect to collect a premium.

You face the hassle of waiting, needing to close when the builder says GO!, potentially living in a building with construction continuing in other parts of it. There is the risk it will never be built - while you had to part with your deposit for a year or two... something which may have impacted your life in all kinds of ways. (And finally, the risk that you won't get your deposit back, which despite assurances, can happen anyway-- if the builder goes BK. :angry: ) Good grief, if you have to pay "true market price" - then just buy a resale, and be done with it.

Producers in the commodities futures market, don't get to change their mind, if they underprice the underlying goods which they must deliver. That builders can do this, is just plain slimy.

Edited by MZT
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To me, what makes sense as a buyer, is that you would expect to collect a premium.

You face the hassle of waiting, needing to close when the builder says GO!, potentially living in a building with construction continuing in other parts of it. There is the risk it will never be built - while you had to part with your deposit for a year or two... something which may have impacted your life in all kinds of ways. (And finally, the risk that you won't get your deposit back, which despite assurances, can happen anyway-- if the builder goes BK. :angry: ) Good grief, if you have to pay "true market price" - then just buy a resale, and be done with it.

Producers in the commodities futures market, don't get to change their mind, if they underprice the underlying goods which they must deliver. That builders can do this, is just plain slimy.

Here's an article in the Washington Post that discusses the abuse of "force majure" clauses by developer who are trying to merely get out of paying increased costs on completing the development.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6102700638.html

My guess is that the Renwick might have a similar situation. As far as the price increase goes, I believe there are many people who were initial contract holders that would have profits in the $100,000 and more range. If I was them, I would seek out a good lawyer to ensure that they are fully aware of their rights under the contract. That's a lifetime of savings for many people.

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The problem is, courts are generally unfriendly to the concept of "lost potential profit". A stronger case would be something like: Being assured a unit would be ready by a certain date, incurring difficulty and expense in your life while you waited beyond that date, then losing your unit.

That would be "promissory estoppel" and a case for a lawsuit. But if you had the money to live elsewhere ,and did not really incur any definable damages, it's going to be a tougher to recover anything.

Edited by MZT
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The problem is, courts are generally unfriendly to the concept of "lost potential profit". A stronger case would be something like: Being assured a unit would be ready by a certain date, incurring difficulty and expense in your life while you waited beyond that date, then losing your unit.

That would be "promissory estoppel" and a case for a lawsuit. But if you had the money to live elsewhere ,and did not really incur any definable damages, it's going to be a tougher to recover anything.

The facts of lost profits can be difficult to provde in many cases, yes. But, with such a well-established appraisal system for real estate and the ability to value the units at exactly what the current developer is now selling them for, I would think the chances would be much better than your average damage award. Making the plaintiff "whole" in this case would be, in effect, giving them what was needed to put them in a similar unit at the same price they'd contracted for. That won't require the same mental gymnastics that your usual contractual agreement for sales of widgets that were never received, licensing revenue on songs never sold, etc.

Funny thing is that I'm reading a case right now in which lost profits were successful and read two yesterday. So, perhaps lost profits are under conventional wisdom considered harder to prove, but I would hardly call them rare. Just one of those things where consulting an attorney is just a good idea for anyone. My point was more the latter and trying to point out how much could be at stake.

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My friend said he consulted his lawyer and they said there probably isn't very much he can do regarding the lost profits. I think the contracts were written that loosely using the verbiage "unforeseen circumstances" as a situation allowing the developer to cancel the contracts. Regardless, they're requesting that the Renwick developer pay him $10k in addition to his downpayment, but he hasn't heard anything back from the lawyer yet regarding that request. I'll keep everyone posted.

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David Furman will be the guest speaker at next week's First Ward Neighbors meeting. He will update us on the Quarterside Project as well as the "pencil tower" next to the arena. This meeting is open to the public.

Tuesday November 7th

7:00pm

First Ward Rec Center on 7th St

Edited by uptownliving
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David Furman will be the guest speaker at next week's First Ward Neighbors meeting. He will update us on the Quarterside Project as well as the "pencil tower" next to the arena. This meeting is open to the public.

Tuesday November 7th

7:00pm

First Ward Rec Center on 7th St

Interested to know what was said at the meeting.

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