First Ward Urban Village / North Tryon Vision Plan

[krazeeboi]

And this is the problem. Developers typically aren't building anything with a shelf-life of greater than 50 years. Phillips Place won't exist as we know it in 25 years, since there is no redeeming character to it. It fills a specific function that is trendy today, but can't be easily adapted as trends change.....it will soon decline as new forms of urbanism or suburbanism render it obsolete....see Sharon Corners as nearby example.

And that is truly a shame. And it's not just happening in Charlotte, but in cities all across the nation. I think that in most cases, this is more true of the mega-development than it is of the small infill project. The latter tends to arise in a more organic function, fulfilling a particular need that exists at the moment and thus, it feels more customized and unique (at least in times past--today these spaces can sometimes be as generic as the mega-project). The former is basically just thrown up and marketed to retailers in general--any will do. That, in part, produces the generic, one-size-fits-all feel of so much of our development these days. It's even worse when these projects are shoehorned into genuinely urban spaces. Phillips Place being razed in 50 years to make way for whatever is new and trendy in 2058 won't do any damage to the urban fabric of SouthPark because none exists (things might change in the future, but as of now, that's the way things are). But imagine something like that existing in Uptown and being razed in a few decades. Sure something will replace it--maybe even of better quality and durability-- but you lose the sense of place that buildings that were built to stand the test of time contribute to a truly urban landscape.

[atlrvr]

I'm home with a sick child today, so I have plenty of time to goof off, and I found this.

This is a different view of the current Levine master plan from Civitas, who I generally dislike. In this case, though, I think they did a really good job with scale/massing for the plan, except Tryon should be much higher density than they show.

I'm under no delusion that it will ever be built out like this....or at all in the next 10 years, but it's nice to dream.

[dubone]

The plan looks generally good, but I'm still a major skeptic. I also still hate the Levine doesn't include Treloar and the Dixies building (I always forget its historic name) at the corner of the park like his original plan had. He claimed to the First Ward meeting last year that he WAS still planning to do that, but it his continued omission of those buildings is unsettling.

[swh1972]

Well, it's "official". Colonial Properties Trust reported their Q4 results today, and as part of their supplemental financial highlights, noted the following:

"Enclave, formerly a for-sale residential project, is now being developed as a multifamily apartment community".

[atlrvr]

Demand should do well, as I bet this thing leases-up quickly, though my guess from a management point of view, they will struggle with the property due to high amenity costs. I'm usually screaming that Charlotte needs more smaller apartment communities, but I bet Colonial bleeds on this one, which they may be willing to do, to get them to a point where they feel they can go back to condo.

[Charlotte_native]

Demand should do well, as I bet this thing leases-up quickly, though my guess from a management point of view, they will struggle with the property due to high amenity costs. I'm usually screaming that Charlotte needs more smaller apartment communities, but I bet Colonial bleeds on this one, which they may be willing to do, to get them to a point where they feel they can go back to condo.

Hard to say for certain, but I wouldn't be surprised if these are just priced decently and not terribly high that they will do just fine. The residential rental market is tight right now presumably because so many aren't or can't buy. I know folks with rentals in uptown and the ring hoods and finding tenants these days is easier than ever.

[atlrvr]

^ That's not what I meant.....I think they will lease just fine. I just think from an operational point of view, it will be tough for Colonial to make money. For example, you wouldn't typically build a pool for an 80-unit apartment community, as the cost to maintain it is relatively high. You find pools on larger complexes, where the expenses can be spread over a larger number of unit, or in condo buildings, where the HOA fees can cover.

[QC-NC]

...where the expenses can be spread over a larger number of unit, or in condo buildings, where the HOA fees can cover.

This does seem like it could pose a large problem! Ha I wonder if atlrvr's previous quote on the fabric of an urban community shows true here.

It fills a specific function that is trendy today, but can't be easily adapted as trends change.....it will soon decline as new forms of urbanism or suburbanism render it obsolete.

If the Enclave community cannot financially operate with its new function as apartments, does that mean we tear it down and build something else. Jeez! It almost sounds as if your forecast and evaluation could manifest right before our eyes..

reversing this trend is hard/expensive/takes architecural forsight no?

Edited February 6, 2008 by QC-NC

[atlrvr]

Well....my gut is they will try to play the rental game for a few years, and if they can't break even, convert to condos and sell for whatever the market will bear, possibly taking a loss. At this point, I can't imagine the land being worth the whatever they already paid for it, plus the cost of the new structure.

[Charlotte_native]

I'd say this is really just a minor move on their part to react to a couple of issues: 1) the screwing of the original buyers who were pushed out so they could raise the prices. this never fares well for publicity or in the pursuit of new buyers. 2) the market changed between the time they switched developers and pushed out the buyers.

A company like this can easily absorb a small annual loss or a break-even scenario and can put these on the market later when the economy is more friendly and sales would be easier.

I do wonder if they finished the interiors for condo sales or if they scaled them back in quality for apartment use. I would hate to see another 5th & Poplar scenario where a couple years after finishing a project the interiors are ripped out due to poor quality and the need to upgrade for the buying market.

On an incrementally smaller scale a i know a handful of investors who build new or renovate homes that have ended up with rentals in the past year -- they are able and would rather collect insufficient rents to cover mortgage than dump a property that in a typical (not better, just not crappy) market would sell for a profit. The good part about this, and how markets take care of themselves, is if fewer people can buy, but still need to live somewhere, the market suddenly has an injection of rental units.

Edited February 6, 2008 by Charlotte_native

[atlrvr]

I would hate to see another 5th & Poplar scenario where a couple years after finishing a project the interiors are ripped out due to poor quality and the need to upgrade for the buying market.

Uggggghhhh.....popcorn ceilings......

[QC-NC]

Anyone know what will happen to the Afro-American cultural center site once it makes its move from 1st ward to third?

New Park?

Another Development?

[dubone]

The current AACC, the historic church building, will remain and still be a part of the AACC (organizations don't have a one-building rule). However, the city owned land across 7th from Enclave, which currently have the 2 shotgun houses preserved, will almost certainly be sold. At one time they had considered selling the land to help fund the Arts Plan, but due to the controversy at the time about where to put the AACC (some wanted to keep it in First Ward), they opted to delay the selling of that land. However, now that the AACC location is now settled, and the other projects in the area are nearing completion, they will revisit whether to sell that land.

I do think there will be some behind the scenes debating on whether to do that, however, as First Ward is running very low on greenspace, so it might be worth preserving as a pocket park.

I can see it both ways. On the one hand, adding all those townhouses that were originally proposed would be a good thing for continue to add density to First Ward. On the other hand, that land might be a very good central place to have common open space. Maybe they could try to push doing a nice playground set like in Fourth Ward.

[voyager12]

Read in the CBJ today that Enclave is definitely switching plans and going rental. Another sign that condomania has certainly slowed a bit in Charlotte.

[RiverwoodCLT]

Quarterside 02/18/08

[cltheel.sdl]

Thanks for the update - I haven't seen these in forever. Good to see the gaps being filled in in First Ward.

[UrbanFuture]

They started the masonry on the Quad building at Quarterside also (I just noticed it today, they aren't too far along). The Quad is the building to the left in the above picture. I like the way Quarterside is turning out.

[swh1972]

The Charlotte Housing Authority authorized the sale of the lot at 720 E. 7th Street (Between Enclave and Quarterside) in their March 18 Board Meeting. This was the lot that was originally going to be developed as a mixed-income apartments or condos in conjunction with The Renwick.

[atlrvr]

City Council will get a presentation from Econ. Dev. next Monday during their dinner meeting regarding the long-proposed 1st Ward Park/Parking Deck that Levine wants. UNCC is pushing it forward as it will contribute to their vision (and parking needs) for their Uptown campus. Levine is proposing a TIF style financing mechanism to support the deck.

All and all, I'm very supportive of this in concept.....I had heard in the past though that Levine was only interested in leasing the air-rights above the deck to the County for a park, and would not sell or grant them that area. The County wasn't interested in that arrangement (nor should they be). Hopefully everyone is on-board this time around.

[dubone]

I'd say that the lease would be fine if Levine was taxed on the whole property. But otherwise, the more land that can be taken back from him, the better.

I do believe that First Ward needs a park in this general idea, and given that the 2010 plan called for it (wisely) in this area in support of an educational area. With Imaginon and UNCC anchoring each end, that vision is really fulfilled.

I hope that the county asks for Treloar to be saved as part of this concept. Although, given that they didn't really bother saving the buildings they were responsible for in Third Ward, I somehow doubt it.

The concept of underground parking is one that makes a lot of sense in an urban context like this. I wished that Novare could have worked out an arrangement to get the underground parking rights under the Bearden Park and used that for their complex, and used that part of the land for another tower. They probably could have gotten the rights for the million dollars they gave to the county for the park anyway. Having that parking underground really helps to use space that otherwise would be unused under the park, and alleviating some of the need to integrate a lot of parking into the new buildings that are built.

I'm glad the county has been slow on this. It allows the focus to be on the 3rd Ward for now, and in 3-5 years, they can begin on this and hopefully help bring some activity back to this area.

The irony is thick, though, that if Levine hadn't screwed up, he might have had Novare contributing a million bucks to this part rather than the other one. But we all know how much of a screw up he is with this land.

[carolina_fan]

City Council will get a presentation from Econ. Dev. next Monday during their dinner meeting regarding the long-proposed 1st Ward Park/Parking Deck that Levine wants. UNCC is pushing it forward as it will contribute to their vision (and parking needs) for their Uptown campus. Levine is proposing a TIF style financing mechanism to support the deck.

If Levine gets this, what are the chances that Novare will come back and build its next tower at the original Novare 1st Ward site? Does Novare still own its 1st Ward site, or did the property go back to Levine?

Edited April 11, 2008 by bja

[atlrvr]

Levine still owns the land...I don't think the property ever transferred. Actually, I believe Levine was going to be an equity partner in the deal, probably with the land as his share of the equity.

Novare may come back, but I wouldn't count on it.

[dubone]

It is completely out of the question for at least a few years. Novare ended up just buying their own land in 3rd Ward, and have enough land for a pipeline of projects that will last a while. TWELVE comes after Catalyst (pending economic conditions), and the other side of the park will be developed after that with one or more projects. I would view them as wanting to stay in that 3rd Ward area for a while even after they've exhausted their current land, as they can add value to the projects already completed.

[UrbanFuture]

A couple of the retail spots have been filled at Quarterside. There is one "Colin's neighborhood Pub" in the corner spot (I'm pretty excited about it), a drycleaners(surprise, surprise), an owner who doesn't know what he's going to do with the spot, and another retail tenant plans for a pizza place but no retail spot assigned to it yet. 6 retails spots remain. The Quad (on 6th & Myers) is supposed to finish late summer / early fall. The Row (7th & Myers) is the unknown, currently they are further ahead on it than the Quad or the Ledge. And the Ledge will finish up last.

[swh1972]

^ Are these scheduled to open shortly after the project is finished? There are still unused retail locations at the bottom of both Courtside and Court 6, and there was talk of a restaurant or a wine bar going in there, but I don't think any work has been done on them as of yet.