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First Ward Urban Village / North Tryon Vision Plan


uptownliving

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I'm not normally for destroying the street grid, but why can't we close 8th street through this?

Go through the last several pages and there's a lot of discussion of that. Essentially, if you close it, it's sort of goes against what the city is trying to do by pushing to create more street connections to dispurse traffic downtown, and in other areas of the city. I don't think anyone would argue that closing this one street connection is going to create all sorts of traffic jams by itself, but it's sort of a slippery slope that you'd rather not go down IMO. Using bollards could make the road safe for temporary use and special textured pavement, a narrow width, and other calming measures would slow the cars.

Has there been any details on what may go in to the east blocks towards Brevard St and north towards 11th St? I hope the zoning isn't UMUD, as this isn't the place for towers, but rather something in the low to mid-rise scale. I'm sure you all agree that area is crying out for some activity to fill in the gaps between the already developed portion of 1st Ward and the say the 7th St station area. It's too bad something couldn't have been done before the recession set in. My understanding is that the park and the UNCC building will be built in the next couple of years, and the plan is that the TIF will be the incentive for Levine to develop his land.

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They are doing some things that will make 8th St a non-issue, including possibly eliminating curbs, putting in retractable bollards and making the whole thing brick or pavers. 8th St is low volume and low capacity, and I believe it will be similar to that street that used to run in front of Reids before the LRT was built.

Also, don't get too used to plan A or plan B, as our digital versions are a bit behind. The last park meeting synthesized the two plans based on the public meeting in early October where they got feedback on the two designs. Word is that the diagonal 'bosque' of trees on the left rendering above is retained.

Keep an eye out here for the latest when they get to post it:

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/Park+a...g/FirstWard.htm

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I had the first walkthrough of the Quad @ Quarterside today. The building is the still very much a construction site. Will post pictures soon.

First thoughts:

- Unit condition and finishes exceeded my expectations in quality and completeness

- Hall and common areas have finishes on par with Avenue and Trademark hall areas (sans flat screen tvs at Avenue)

- Retail is progressing well with more tenants soon to be signed

- The parking garages will be gated and residents only for the Quad. Visitor parking on street, in the surface lot and part of the Ledge deck

- Overall, very happy with the results.

Just spoke to another person who bought at the Quad. You were lucky to have had an early walk through. Theirs were postponed but had the chance to take a glimpse at their unit. They didn't seem very content at the idea that they were not contacted of the changes made in their unit since they had all their furnishings chosen to suit. Centro's reply initially was vague as to whom to place the blame on then stressed the contract's stipulation of allowed modifications.

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Just spoke to another person who bought at the Quad. You were lucky to have had an early walk through. Theirs were postponed but had the chance to take a glimpse at their unit. They didn't seem very content at the idea that they were not contacted of the changes made in their unit since they had all their furnishings chosen to suit. Centro's reply initially was vague as to whom to place the blame on then stressed the contract's stipulation of allowed modifications.

Curiously, what was different in their unit? Mine did not have a glass block wall as shown on the floor plan, but I specifically requested that be a normal drywall clad wall. I have heard of other minor changes as they have VE'd ("value engineered") things along the way.

Closings are proving to be a big challenge, apparently their contractor is completely inept and is unable to handle the close out of the project with timely and successful inspections, thus delaying the Certificate of Occupancy and any residents from moving in. There is definitely a break down somewhere, either with Centro's project managers or CaroCon's project managers, with someone not able to properly manage this project, which is very unfortunate for everyone involved.

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Courtside had big challenges on close-out too, though that was Batson-Cook. It's possible that it's Centro, though most other projects didn't have significant C/O issues, and Carocon has done a lot of their low-rise stuff in First Ward.

Generally speaking (perhaps out of turn), but building inspectors have a lot more time on their hand right now, and would like to show that they are taking their job seriously. You typically get much higher quality/slower pace work in all sectors during slowdowns.

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Courtside had big challenges on close-out too, though that was Batson-Cook. It's possible that it's Centro, though most other projects didn't have significant C/O issues, and Carocon has done a lot of their low-rise stuff in First Ward.

Generally speaking (perhaps out of turn), but building inspectors have a lot more time on their hand right now, and would like to show that they are taking their job seriously. You typically get much higher quality/slower pace work in all sectors during slowdowns.

You are indeed correct, I should make note that I am not saying Carocon or Centro is "bad" or doing a "poor job at their core business", just simply that something is amiss somewhere in the process.

No doubt about the inspections, I have experienced this first hand. I wouldn't be surprised if what has really happened is a little bit of friction between the on site guys and the inspectors due to the inspectors doing higher quality/slower inspections. This slower process is probably taking some adjusting to by the guys on site who are used to faster, smaller inspection punch lists and predictably they are arguing some inspection points which slows the process down and usually makes the list longer as well.

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Ha! Okay, we'll give you credit. :)

ColeJenest & Stone has been very impressive. On the 3rd Ward Park design meetings, Land Design took an attitude of 'we know better than you' and it was very difficult to see any changes that resulted from input during the public meetings.

In 3rd Ward, I remember a lot of people talking about high quality materials, we ended up with concrete paths. A few people (mostly me) talked about saving part of the House of Jazz building, to no avail.

In 2nd Ward, they didn't drop the carousel idea despite almost universal negative response until very recently (presumably for budget). They also didn't take in the feedback to avoid overprogramming the space because in the end, it was open space that was most needed in 2nd Ward, while the surrounding Brooklyn Village would provide the human activity that Marshall Park lacked.

I'm not really saying I am not happy with the plans for 3rd or 2nd Wards, but it was very difficult to see many tangeable changes resulting from public feedback.

Back to First Ward, though, their designs have incorporated many elements of feedback. They are seriously studying the possibility of moving the Treloar House to the park to act as a Park Pavillion, and you'll see it labeled directly as Treloar house in a number of renderings, but they have changed that to the more generic 'Park Pavillion' in case a study finds that the Treloar cannot be moved. They also took in a lot of feedback about the flow of pedestrian traffic, a desire for an interactive water feature (ie. kids can play in that shallow fountain'), not trying to build space for large events (ie. focusing on spaces for smaller events rather than what they tried to do in 3rd Ward).

As for the bollards, Cole Jenest and Stone has been working with CDOT to arrange for approval for things they don't traditionally approve. One is the retractable bollards, another is not having a curb so that pedestrians don't feel like they are crossing a street per se, and the last is the use of bricks (which is not common for public streets). It will be interesting to see what they succeed at.

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Curiously, what was different in their unit? Mine did not have a glass block wall as shown on the floor plan, but I specifically requested that be a normal drywall clad wall. I have heard of other minor changes as they have VE'd ("value engineered") things along the way.

Closings are proving to be a big challenge, apparently their contractor is completely inept and is unable to handle the close out of the project with timely and successful inspections, thus delaying the Certificate of Occupancy and any residents from moving in. There is definitely a break down somewhere, either with Centro's project managers or CaroCon's project managers, with someone not able to properly manage this project, which is very unfortunate for everyone involved.

The major complaint among others were the change of wood floors leaving them wondering if they were the only ones with this scenario. Even though Centrocityworks states the quality is the same, the floors are completely (aesthetics)different. But you didn't have any problems. In fact they granted your request.

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I like it, but in order to make it part of urban life, it has to something to draw more people there. Sure the trees are pretty and a big open lawn a nice concept to lay out and read a book, but how about something like a small playground? A small dog walking specific area? Something that makes the downsides of living in downtown be a bit better, and makes it more usable on a daily basis.

I dont really want to see another "the green"

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They actually don't need amenities like a playground, as First Ward has arranged for the expansion of the First Ward Elementary School playground diagonally across 9th and Brevard from this site. That will take place in the next year or two when the old school building slated for demo is vacated by the administrative group that is borrowing the space.

They have opted instead for more generalized space that kids and adults can enjoy, like the fountain, and general open space.

We talked a bit about having a space for off-leash dog walking, but this is too tight of a spot for that, which needs to be fairly large.

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Very interesting to hear other people's experience with the Quad and the quality of products used. I will be closing on a unit and have had some issues with the unit I'm buying. Are they legally able to change the flooring that is used in the units? I was told that all the flooring is pre-engineered wood (which to me looks like laminate floor to me). It gives the place a different look. Disappointing to me as the rest of the place looks great. Anyone else feel the same way? I just worry that they did this to a number of people hoping that no one would push back. People that bought early, did they renegotiate the contracts or give any kind of price break? Thanks for the help.

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Are they legally able to change the flooring that is used in the units? I was told that all the flooring is pre-engineered wood (which to me looks like laminate floor to me).

My floors would be the same brand/quality as yours I believe. I did not notice the change at first but did on the second walk-through. To me personally I was worried much more about the cabinets, as they are MUCH more expensive and harder to replace so I guess I didn't give the floors much thought.

Now that I think about it, the floors are definitely a big thing to have changed. However, I don't believe there is a legal argument, thanks to that wonderful paragraph that says something like Centro makes to representation as to the brand/grade of materials used, etc etc etc, reserves the right to change materials of similar quality/finish, etc, etc. The floors definitely are laminate, which is obnoxious.

On a positive note, I'm excited to finally move in, whenever that may be able to take place, the almost 3 year state of flux from apartment to apartment is getting old.

EDIT: I was one of the first buyers, there were no re-negotiations of any kind to my knowledge.

Edited by QCkid
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QCkid,

Why would you continue and settle on the place if you are unhappy with the flooring? When are you closing? I'm hearing that there are still 10 unsold units at The Quad and that some people can't make it to closing. I am buying there but am nervous about 1) changes done to the unit 2) people backing out. Is there anyone else out there that is closing on there unit. If more people complain, maybe someone will listen.

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In no way shape or form are laminate floors the same or even similar quality/spec as engineered flooring. If an engineered flooring (hardwood of varying thickness veneered over an engineered substrate) is spec'd it should have been used. The cost difference is $4-$6 sqft so it is quite considerable. Also, most engineered floors can be refinished a limited number of times almost like real hardwood. Laminate cannot.

Just an observation.

Remember the old adage about the squeaky wheel. In this case I'd squeak like Mickey Mouse.

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QCkid,

Why would you continue and settle on the place if you are unhappy with the flooring?

I'm not completely unhappy with the flooring, just annoyed that it was laminate. They have preformed what I paid them to do, which was install their builder grade wood floors in the color I requested.

They have given no closing dates to my knowledge, I could be out of the loop, but I do not have mine yet. I have complained plenty about a variety of things. Some things were resolved and some things continue to be argued. Buying new construction, in my experience, is a constant negotiation for finish quality and builder/buyer concessions until you sign at the closing table.

As for your concerns: 1) Changes are unfortunately part of any construction process, however, if you feel something was misrepresented to you during the sales process, I personally would encourage you to get in contact with your realtor and/or Centro and begin a dialogue to see what a resolution might be. 2) I hear that 20 percent will most likely be vacant at move in, that is 16-17 units, due to unsold and people backing out. I don't think this is entirely a bad thing. More parking, :lol: just kidding. Obviously I'd prefer a full building, but I just don't think it will be too bad to have a couple vacant at first.

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In no way shape or form are laminate floors the same or even similar quality/spec as engineered flooring.

True. Lets just make sure we are talking about the same thing. These laminate floors are not vinyl flooring that looks like hardwood, they are a form of MDF (saw dust and glue, see also a certain Swedish furniture manufacturer) with laminated hardwood strips in about 6mm thickness over it.

When I bought I was not represented engineered floors personally, so I while I am annoyed that they are laminate, I expected a laminate floor.

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QCkid,

Were you able to have anything changed during the process or have them upgrade anything for you after you signed the contract? If you want to send me a message, would love to hear what you paid per sq ft and what you heard the average was for the building? The flooring is difficult to swallow. I had a vision of what the place was going to look like and now I think it looks much "cheaper". Any update on the vacant land between the Enclave and Quaterside?

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I'm not completely unhappy with the flooring, just annoyed that it was laminate. They have preformed what I paid them to do, which was install their builder grade wood floors in the color I requested.

They have given no closing dates to my knowledge, I could be out of the loop, but I do not have mine yet. I have complained plenty about a variety of things. Some things were resolved and some things continue to be argued. Buying new construction, in my experience, is a constant negotiation for finish quality and builder/buyer concessions until you sign at the closing table.

As for your concerns: 1) Changes are unfortunately part of any construction process, however, if you feel something was misrepresented to you during the sales process, I personally would encourage you to get in contact with your realtor and/or Centro and begin a dialogue to see what a resolution might be. 2) I hear that 20 percent will most likely be vacant at move in, that is 16-17 units, due to unsold and people backing out. I don't think this is entirely a bad thing. More parking, :lol: just kidding. Obviously I'd prefer a full building, but I just don't think it will be too bad to have a couple vacant at first.

Several questions:

Finally the 1st walk through. I attended the walk through with my friend. Laminate floors? The contractor explained the woods as if they were engineered ones since there were a couple of scratches. In addition, high heels were not recommended on these floors. I thought laminate was pretty sturdy? This is a surprise. (the floors do look nice though)

Backout? How can anyone backout if the contract states, that the only legit reason not to continue with the process, is with the excuse of not being able to qualify financially? There is a painstaking three times obligatory trial before it's safe for the purchaser to backout. If a backout is possible, without the ramifications of a fiasco, then my bud will be happy to hear this alternative. Maybe later, when the economy strengthens, buying would be more apropo. Uptown Charlotte is very nice and I do agree with the usc2007lsu...the buildings are lovely.

There were some delays previously but then you don't have a closing date? Did you buy in the Quad? My bud's 2nd walk through/closing has been set for next month and has complained plenty but gets the phonetics of the contract tooted on a constant basis.

Maybe Centro should renegotiate the sales price. The laminate floors will affect everyones future resale price.

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QCkid,

Why would you continue and settle on the place if you are unhappy with the flooring? When are you closing? I'm hearing that there are still 10 unsold units at The Quad and that some people can't make it to closing. I am buying there but am nervous about 1) changes done to the unit 2) people backing out. Is there anyone else out there that is closing on there unit. If more people complain, maybe someone will listen.

unc2007lsu,

I've got a friend that is more nervous than you are. I now hear it, since the first walk thru, more than ever. She didn't know backing out was a choice. After reading the contract thoroughly, it read as if once you signed, you were obligated to proceed with the process. No ands or buts. Are purchasers really changing their minds or can't qualify financially or are afraid of the economy? The place is attractive but I can see where everyone is having second thoughts. Centro will probably forced to renegotiate the prices if everyone in these buildings have the choice to backout.

Did you buy for investment purposes or will this be your home? My bud bought in the Quad because it would be her home and her first.

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In addition, high heels were not recommended on these floors. I thought laminate was pretty sturdy? This is a surprise. (the floors do look nice though)

This type of flooring is fairly sturdy...easy to clean, etc. When you put a high heel on this type of floor you're exerting ~2,000 lbs per sq. in. so it will obviously increase the risk of tearing. All flooring have their advantages and disadvantages...high heels and sharp objects on laminate flooring are two the largest drawbacks, and avoiding this type of treatment is easy to do.

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Easier for males than females to avoid.

Maybe I'm not picturing what laminate was used, but I was at Home Depot Design Center this weekend and happened to look at laminate floors in passing. They all looked so obviously plastic and cheap. I would be horrified if it had gone down in a unit I was buying thinking I'd be getting wood floors.

Some are better than others, so hopefully it was the better.

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If you all don't mind me asking, which of the three buildings are having the walkthroughs you are discussing? I have never been able to figure out which one is Quarterside, which is Quad, and which is Ledge. There is the building that runs along MacDowell, the building that runs along 7th, and the one that runs along 6th, and all are in various stages of completion.

Overall, I like this development as an addition to First Ward. Now if they could get rid of all of the overhead power lines...

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If you all don't mind me asking, which of the three buildings are having the walkthroughs you are discussing?

Quarterside is the whole development. The Quad is at the corner of 6th and Myers. The Ledge is at the corner of 7th and McDowell. The Row is along 7th at the corner of 7th and Myers.

The floors are not able to be torn, they are not a vinyl (what some people in different part of the country refer to as laminate). The reason they are vunerable to high heels is because they are indented by the point load of the stiletto. This is usually only visible as sun rays shine on floor and you look at it sideways.

The floors are not that bad, I doubt if you toured avenue, trademark or courtside that many of you would be able to tell the difference.

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