First Ward Urban Village / North Tryon Vision Plan

[Charlotte_native]

These floors don't hold up well. They put them in 230 South Tryon. They aren't vinyl, but are thin strips of wood on top of something. They dent and ding very easily, doesn't require a high heel, the scratch easily, and you'll not be able to refinish them (we tried). Be careful with them and they'll look fine, but otherwise they get scuffed and beat up quickly. Oh, and they can buckle after just a bit of time in an area with lots of daytime sunshine on them.

[UrbanFuture]

She didn't know backing out was a choice. After reading the contract thoroughly, it read as if once you signed, you were obligated to proceed with the process..... My bud bought in the Quad because it would be her home and her first.

You have 7 days under NC law to cancel a condo contract, after that you are bound by the terms. That being said, if you bought originally, there was a clause that stated after a certain amount of time passed if the condo was not completed and conveyed to you that you could get your earnest money back and move on. I believe it was 30 months from date of contract. This is also my first home that I will own, I am still excited about it. I think over time, as well as right now, that it will be a great place to live. I can't speak to financial gains from the property but I seriously doubt you will get wiped out if you hold it for 2-5 years, its still one of the lower priced developments inside of 277.

unc2007lsu, I tried to send you a message but you haven't posted 10 post yet so its not working.

[palmetto75]

I don't think its a written law anywhere, but it is commonly understood that you cannot force anybody to buy real property in NC. Do you most likely forfeit your EM deposit and any upgrade deposits??? Yes!!! Depending on the amount, that maybe a small price to pay in the uptown real estate game.

6mm laminate is not only the cheap in terms of overall flooring, but actually some the cheapest laminate available. Apoligize for the negativity, but if you were promised something else you should get it. Just imagine the invitations to yr house warming party. Right under the RSVP stating "Please do not wear high heels and only bring boxed wine or can bear as any sharp or heavy objects may damage my new floors!"

Just remember you have leverage with the developer before you close. In these times that is even more so. However, once you close you are in a whole different ball game.

[UrbanFuture]

I was approximating, i have no idea what grade of laminate they used, it varies from 5mm to 12mm in production.

Actually, if you qualify, and weren't deemed under duress or mentally incompetent when you signed your contract and it has no escape clause, then the developer can sue you for specific performance of the contract. "No one ever does this" because there was always another person who would buy it. I doubt it would come to that, but you still need a very good reason not to close at all.

Palmetto75 is right, your leverage and negotiating power pretty much ceases as soon as you sign your name at closing.

Edited November 20, 2008 by QCkid

[world44]

Are laminate considered Hardwood Floors?

Centro is advertising Quad condos for sale on a realtor website with "Hardwood Floors". The first asking price is $224,900 for a 1/1. Should a condo in First Ward at this price in this economy with "laminate floors" cost this much?

What are Hardwood Floors? Any experts out there willing to elaborate?

[atlrvr]

My unsolicited 2 cents. If you don't know the difference between hardwood and laminate, then what are you worrying about? You or your friend will be perfectly happy. There is no magic formula to valuing these places, and if you asked 10 appraisers to do a cost approach or sales approach appraisal of the property, you would see a range much wider than the cost of upgrading to a solid wood floors.

Buy a condo because you like it and because it satisfies your needs and wants. If you don't like what is delivered make a fuss, threaten to refuse to close until a compromise is reached. A good compromise is when no one is happy.

Any discussion of value is relative ($800 sq. ft. for new construction in NYC has thru-wall A/C units and $50 sq. ft. in Detroit will buy you a gilded age masterpiece mansion). Buy for your own tastes, and not for your perception of what the market demands, because if the intent is to sell in the next 2 years, its probably cheaper to walk away from the downpayment and rent your dream place.

[palmetto75]

Are laminate considered Hardwood Floors?

Centro is advertising Quad condos for sale on a realtor website with "Hardwood Floors". The first asking price is $224,900 for a 1/1. Should a condo in First Ward at this price in this economy with "laminate floors" cost this much?

What are Hardwood Floors? Any experts out there willing to elaborate?

Maybe the best way to demonstrate the difference is to go to a site such as Lumber Liquidators and compare the specs/prices of laminate/engineered hardwood/solid hardwood. Not trying to argue real estate values here. Simply trying to say you should get what you paid for. That being said, yes the floorcovering at the end of the day is not that big of a deal in that it can be changed easily. If the unit had 7' ceilings, that would be a different story.

[Charlotte_native]

My unsolicited 2 cents. If you don't know the difference between hardwood and laminate, then what are you worrying about? You or your friend will be perfectly happy. There is no magic formula to valuing these places, and if you asked 10 appraisers to do a cost approach or sales approach appraisal of the property, you would see a range much wider than the cost of upgrading to a solid wood floors.

Buy a condo because you like it and because it satisfies your needs and wants. If you don't like what is delivered make a fuss, threaten to refuse to close until a compromise is reached. A good compromise is when no one is happy.

Any discussion of value is relative ($800 sq. ft. for new construction in NYC has thru-wall A/C units and $50 sq. ft. in Detroit will buy you a gilded age masterpiece mansion). Buy for your own tastes, and not for your perception of what the market demands, because if the intent is to sell in the next 2 years, its probably cheaper to walk away from the downpayment and rent your dream place.

I respectfully disagree. Flooring like this is a big undertaking over time to change once they've buckled or been severly scratched and dented (and they will be quickly -- believe me). Remember, you can't refinish them like true hardwood floors, once they are damaged or don't look good, they will need to be replaced.

It isn't a question of whether you can eye-ball them and see a difference, but what you have in terms of quality and durability. IF these floors are the ones they put in 230, they are awful. Unfortunately I think you'd be mincing words to prove they are or aren't 'hardwood' as they have a tiny layer of real wood over layers of soft compressed woods.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Charlotte_native

[unc2007lsu]

I am buying the unit as a place to live, not as a pure investment. Its interesting all the terms being thrown around, laminate vs Pre-engieered vs Solid. To me Laminate is a photo of wood that is very cheap looking and not at all what is in my unit. But its definitely not solid hardwood floor. I never even heard of pre-engineered hardwood until I asked what these floors were. When the floors are cleaned up, they look great. As for the ability to back out, I don't know what the rules are, but each day is making me more and more paranoid. I'm hearing threw another friend who is buying that only half of the units at the Quad are under contract now, that the Row is off the market and Centro is entertaining a bid from an Investor on that unit. So Centro might sell that unit to an investor, what is that going to do to our price? What is the investor going to do with the property? All the economics of the situation tell me to run, but I really think that the unit is nice and I want to live in uptown. Other buyers at the Quad, what were you told your closing date was going to be? Did you notice the sign on the back of the condo with a number on it? Anyone hear if the HOA dues are going to go up because only half of the units are under contract?

[Charlotte_native]

Anyone hear if the HOA dues are going to go up because only half of the units are under contract?

That shouldn't be true and sounds like rumor. HOA dues are assigned to the units themselves, not just divvied up between however many new owners there are. Your condo docs should spell this out pretty clearly and if the docs have been changed you are entitled to have a copy of the new ones before your purchase AND if they have changed you might have a way out of your contract.

If you want to own a place downtown and like your unit, like the building, and plan on staying there for a while, I wouldn't freak out about how many are or aren't under contract. Times are very tough right now and all the projects being finished at this time that I know of and know people involved with are having buyers drop out -- primarily from job loss or inability to get financing. If you are concerned for your job or income I'd definitely hold off buying, but otherwise you get huge tax benefits and you won't be tossing money away in rent and a few years from now when the economy is better you'll likely be very happy you moved forward. If you were buying just with investment in mind that's another story.

[SmellyCat]

In addition, high heels were not recommended on these floors. I thought laminate was pretty sturdy? This is a surprise. (the floors do look nice though)

As Neo states, high heels will dent just about any wood type - real, engineered, laminate, etc.

For what it's worth, I have bamboo floors in my apartment. It's real bamboo, but when you pull the flooring up it appears to be engineered hardwood - that is, only a small cut of bamboo (a few millimeters) on top of a 1/4" of scrap wood. So, does this qualify as "real hardwood" or "engineered", or as unc2007isu calls it "pre-engineered"? I don't know nor care. It looks like wood, feels like wood. Easy to clean and care for.

I have a friend who works at Paresh Flooring in U. City whom I can get answers so some of your other questions.

[UrbanFuture]

Facts as I know them as of this morning:

-The Row is off the market and being negotiated for sale to one guy for all 18 units, retail excluded, if I had to guess, I'd say market rate apartments.

-A little over 50% of the units at the Quad and Ledge are confirmed under contract. They have been signing one to two contracts a week for the whole development, which is amazing considering the current economic realities.

-I have no closing date as of today, I think partly because they are avoiding the problems of giving out and changing another closing date to the people who had early walk-throughs, I heard they were under siege from buyers the first time they did this in October. As soon as the fire marshall passes the building on his final inspections, they can began closing.

-The HOA dues remain the same as they are per sq foot that you own. So you only pay dues on your condo.

On a side note, unc2007lsu, I agree with you, its a nicely done building both inside and out, and a great location for the price. The economy sucks and people have dropped out due to financing, job loss issues, and building time issues. I too was nervous and still get so every now and then when I let a news story or gossip get the better of me. However, I am moving forward and hanging in because I am also buying this as my first home and I think it will be a great place to live and ultimately I think the development will have a really good dynamic about it.

[Charlotte_native]

As soon as the fire marshall passes the building on his final inspections, they can began closing.

This is often a hold up for closing new buildings. Fire and sprinkler inspections are the last to take place and can really delay things so don't assume this says anything bad about this project. It happened in our building at 230 South Tryon and recently held up The Tremont for close to a month. Not from some big 'issue' or something done that wasn't up to par, but having to move a light here and there because it ended up to close to a sprinklin head, or moving other piping. Little minor details will prevent the Fire Marshall from signing off on the CO.

[unc2007lsu]

QCkid,

Nice recap, that is what I exactly heard and thought about the Row. Don't you think the Row going to market rate apartments is going to devalue the rest of the condos? Also, with almost 50% of the units on the market still, won't the developer cut prices to try to sell them, ultimately hurting the people that bought in early? Its not an investment, but I don't want to go down 10-20% just because the developer can't sell the units. Wouldn't buying in an established building be a "safer" (relative term) in this market. What I mean is that you will not be competing with the builder if you have to move in the next 3-5yrs. Each day that goes by I get closer to walking. I would encourage others really to think about the overall economics of this project. Why would they be selling an entire building to an investor? Do you think that investor is going to pay retail? Its going to be a cost plus deal, paying slightly above what the builders cost. Then they are going to turn it around and rent it out. Just gives me a bad feeling about the financial situation for the builder. Qckid, when I hit 10 posts, would love to talk offline about some more details.

[UrbanFuture]

Don't you think the Row going to market rate apartments is going to devalue the rest of the condos? Also, with almost 50% of the units on the market still, won't the developer cut prices to try to sell them, ultimately hurting the people that bought in early? Why would they be selling an entire building to an investor? Just gives me a bad feeling about the financial situation for the builder.

I don't think the market rate apartments will hurt as it is a separate building and will add more life to the block. I believe they are selling the building as a whole because they found someone willing to do it and would love to get these 18 units off their books in one fell swoop. Centro is not in the apartment or rental business and I don't think they are anxious to start. They have found a way to work this into their existing business model. As far as the units being just over 50% full, we'll see what comes of that. I don't doubt the developer will cut prices a little bit to add incentive to buy, but as of right now, they aren't doing it, at least on MLS. I doubt they will cut prices enough to do any serious damage to anyone. They have been working on this for 3 years, he has bills to pay and needs certain prices.

Real estate is by nature a long term hold and also has some degree of risk. Buying a first home carries a good deal of stress and worry with it normally and this current economic situation is adding heavily to it.

[Charlotte_native]

QCkid,

Nice recap, that is what I exactly heard and thought about the Row. Don't you think the Row going to market rate apartments is going to devalue the rest of the condos? Also, with almost 50% of the units on the market still, won't the developer cut prices to try to sell them, ultimately hurting the people that bought in early? Its not an investment, but I don't want to go down 10-20% just because the developer can't sell the units. Wouldn't buying in an established building be a "safer" (relative term) in this market. What I mean is that you will not be competing with the builder if you have to move in the next 3-5yrs. Each day that goes by I get closer to walking. I would encourage others really to think about the overall economics of this project. Why would they be selling an entire building to an investor? Do you think that investor is going to pay retail? Its going to be a cost plus deal, paying slightly above what the builders cost. Then they are going to turn it around and rent it out. Just gives me a bad feeling about the financial situation for the builder. Qckid, when I hit 10 posts, would love to talk offline about some more details.

I think what the builder is doing is a way they are preserving (if it works) value in the other. One investor buying a whole building as apartments won't affect the value of single condo units in nearby buildings and was likely just a way of getting a whole block of units off the books without having to sell them one by one. These won't be comps because it is a completely different sale -- now effectively an investor buying an apartment building as opposed to single buyers buying single units. That isn't meant to imply that in time they won't drop prices in your building if units won't move, but as QC pointed out, they haven't done that yet and didn't do it at Trademark and Courtside. In their own interest, at least for now, they won't want to drop prices on inventory -- when your bank goes and has your unit appraised it would bring the value of your unit down and might prevent you from securing your financing.

[unc2007lsu]

Its a sticky situation in my opinnion. Its either they are having financial trouble (trying to dump the property) or they see the opportunity to unload a building off there books. Would love to understand truly why they are doing this. Anyone buying in the development (the Quad, The Ledge) hear anything about what is going on? Settlement date yet? Anyone having issues with there units?

[dubone]

[The park on S Church St is Third Ward Park, and the associated question was moved here: http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/3rd-Ward...n-P-t41135.html ]

[mdadolfo]

I bought into the Quad. This is a surprise to me. I do have a closing date. Why don't you? Did send message to Centro on these concerns and have not received a reply.

[UrbanFuture]

I bought into the Quad. This is a surprise to me. I do have a closing date. Why don't you? Did send message to Centro on these concerns and have not received a reply.

I now have a closing date. And Centro is now currently almost positive they will not be selling the Row as a whole package. In other words, the Row is still individual condos for sale.

[monsoon]

It seems to me that if a portion of this complex has converted to apartments, and this wasn't the plan that was presented to you when you signed the contract, then you have a legitimate reason to walk away without penalty. You might have to hire an attorney to help you do it. This would concern me a great deal, especially if the builder does it with more units.

[UrbanFuture]

I believe all 3 buildings are separate entities, with separate HOAs and separate public offering statements. If they were all one legal entity, then I think Monsoon's way out would definitely work. It seems Centro has thought better of the idea or it fell through, because I have heard that the Row selling to an investor idea is no longer on the table.

Edited December 1, 2008 by QCkid

[SmellyCat]

Sounds to me like unc2007lsu is just getting cold feet. He cited multiple reasons for not wanting to close...the flooring, the viability of Charlotte, possible 9% U.S. unemployment per Goldman Sachs, HOA dues, developer possibly selling blocks of condos. What else, is the color they've painted the building not to your liking? Perhaps it needs to be more of an impact color. :-)

[UrbanFuture]

Perhaps it needs to be more of an impact color. :-)

I say paint it CLEMSON ORANGE... but I may be a bit biased

[mdadolfo]

I now have a closing date. And Centro is now currently almost positive they will not be selling the Row as a whole package. In other words, the Row is still individual condos for sale.

Continue to wait for a response...did check Centrocityworks website and the Row is no longer listed. Are you certain of the Row's future?