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Winston-Salem Streetcar Plan


Danny 4 Peace

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Currently only major U.S. cities are bring back streetcars but Winston-Salem could set the pace for small to medium sized cities across the country. I think this is something Winston-Salem should find a way to make happen. I know its very very expensive.

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Of course when Winston was a smaller city than it is now, it did have a streetcar system that was viable and the downtown core was probably not much different in terms of residents but the biggest change is that RJR and other industries had very large workforces downtown and there was a vibrant retail sector as well.

With more residents and expansion of the art & craft related businesses in the Arts District, retail will come in time along with entertainment venues. I think the Arts District and Burke St can easily accomodate another 6-8 clubs of varying types (country, rock, comedy etc...)

The big thing is the the Piedmont business park. Wake Forest Baptist has several thousand people working in and around the hospital and while Wake has a substantial interest in the PTR park, I do not see many people going back and forth from the hospital to the park unless there are major research initiatives normally found in a hospital that are transplanted to the park.

If there are eventually 10,000 people in the PTR, what incentive is there for them to take the streetcar is they do not live downtown? On one hand, if nearly everyone drives downtown, that will requires thousands of parking spaces which will consume the better park of the reserved land in the park. Parking garages will alleviate some of the demand but perhaps the streetcar can facilitate that by connecting people from satellite parking areas (and there are plenty in the downtown right now) to either the PTR or Wake Forest Baptist. This is where the city can be smart with control over the development process. By putting restrictions on the amount of parking on surface lots and so forth and spreading out parking garages thorughout downtown, the scarcity of spots will force people to use streetcars. A bit draconian but in the example of Portland which is the city the planners of the project are comparing Winston to in terms of the streetcar use, Portland's planning process and urban land use rules fosters higher densities and more efficient land use which makes their streetcar line more viable. The city should never fear using the carrot & stick approach in making downtown work.

(graphic from Winston-Salem Journal)

streetcar_route.gif

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You know this might be more effective if they extended it further down Hawthorne to the Ardmore area to maybe Miller or Knollwood. I guarantee you if they did that then they WOULD get more riders because there are hundreds of doctors and medical students that live in the Ardmore vicinity that work at WFBMC.

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Since this is NC and given the difficultly in getting federal funding for a rail transit project these days, it is absolutely imperative that WS find a way to fund at least 25% of this line with local money. More would be better. If that were to happen the NCDOT may kick in 25%. In a minimum funding scenario, that would mean 25% local, 25% state, and 50% federal. Unfortunately if the area goes the federal route, that means going through the federal approval process which can take years.

Since this project is $52M, lets say $60M, then a much better plan would be for WS to come up with a way to generate 75% or $45M in local money and ask the state to kick in $15M. That ought to be very do-able. I would love to see it happen as this would be only the second rail project to be built in all of the Carolinas. It would also be important that this line somehow connect to the local Winston Salem connector to the state rail network, and the upcoming high speed rail line.

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Since this is NC and given the difficultly in getting federal funding for a rail transit project these days, it is absolutely imperative that WS find a way to fund at least 25% of this line with local money. More would be better. If that were to happen the NCDOT may kick in 25%. In a minimum funding scenario, that would mean 25% local, 25% state, and 50% federal. Unfortunately if the area goes the federal route, that means going through the federal approval process which can take years.

Since this project is $52M, lets say $60M, then a much better plan would be for WS to come up with a way to generate 75% or $45M in local money and ask the state to kick in $15M. That ought to be very do-able. I would love to see it happen as this would be only the second rail project to be built in all of the Carolinas. It would also be important that this line somehow connect to the local Winston Salem connector to the state rail network, and the upcoming high speed rail line.

This project should be viewed as what it could be-- AN EXCELLENT START. It's not going to go to all the portions of Winston-Salem immediately, but neither did the Interstate Highway system touch all 50 states the day the first section opened.

As the streetcar system gains functionality, its benefits will become more obvious to the naysayer crowd. While this system will not itself connect to the state rail network immediately, the Twin City Streetcar would very much help those efforts to link Winston to the existing services and SEHSR by showing people transit could work.

As for the money, monsoon is right. The Federal process is a mess these days, and so is the Federal Transit Administration. If Winston can go it alone or with NCDOT money, they should. Alas, that's a lot of money for going alone.

One key here may be to point out the increasing value in real estate that the streetcar will bring. The streetcar means people living along the route will need fewer cars for daily living. Fewer cars means fewer parking spaces. Fewer parking spaces required means more developable space for higher-revenue commercial and residential space instead of decked parking. Tax-increment financing models may be appropriate for this. The businesses and homes along the line that will see their property values rise from the investment may also pay a greater tax assessment for that city investment.

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You know this might be more effective if they extended it further down Hawthorne to the Ardmore area to maybe Miller or Knollwood. I guarantee you if they did that then they WOULD get more riders because there are hundreds of doctors and medical students that live in the Ardmore vicinity that work at WFBMC.

Ardmore was the first true suburb of Winston and has higher than normal densities than other suburbs in Winston but if we expand our thinking a bit, let the route continue along south Hawthorne, stop at Forsyth Medical then arrive at the Shangri-La : HANES MALL!

Downside, doubling the length of the line may mean perhaps doubling the cost as well but I assure you, a streetcar shuttling between the mall and Wake Forest/Baptist may have ridership exceeding the Wake Forest/Baptist to Downtown segment.

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Of course that is not the only possible extension to the proposed system. Potential later extensions would include lines south to Old Salem and the N.C. School of the Arts, north to Wake Forest University, the fairgrounds and sports venues, and east to Winston-Salem State University. It would make sense to tie in the universities and technical colleges like Forsyth Tech as large bodies of students without ready access to a vehicle would be the primary users of the system. Only problem would be the lack of riders between downtown and these points of destination.

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Oh most definitely! :thumbsup:

Very unlikely. The mall is a place that discourages walking. The area immediately around Baptist is so-so for walking, but it is a high-density trip generator. Places with job density and walkability will have more riders than the mall. Believe me, if the consultant thought that a streetcar between the mall and Baptist would have more riders, they would have sold it as the first segment.

The areas between Baptist and the mall are mostly pedestrian-unfriendly single use districts. THe proposed streetcar line is in the right place.

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  • 5 months later...
  • 6 months later...

I wonder what a survey of W-S residents asking if they would ride a streetcar at least 3 times a week would look like. To me it screams outdated and old fashioned. I think the public (W-S residents and workers of all income levels) should be polled several times over the next few years to find out if the idea has any vaule to the public at large. If not there is little hope of street cars being used if they are brought to W-S.

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I wonder what a survey of W-S residents asking if they would ride a streetcar at least 3 times a week would look like. To me it screams outdated and old fashioned. I think the public (W-S residents and workers of all income levels) should be polled several times over the next few years to find out if the idea has any vaule to the public at large. If not there is little hope of street cars being used if they are brought to W-S.
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Sreetcars would be an extraordinary addition to W-S, and would be, I believe, highly utilized. Not only are they an efficient means of local urban transport, they also increase tourism, and would be a boon to Old Salem as well as the indicated sorely needed connector between Hawthorn Hill and the PTRP (and don't forget that the new baseball stadium is halfway between, and can be used for other events out of baseball season).

W-S should approve and finance this without a second thought. W-S is achieving critical mass, and must "take the ball" and run if they really want, as indicated, to join progressive urban cities.

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Street cars will be used as a means of transportation from WFUBMC to PTRP. Right now the medical center is having to run a fleet of vans to all of their various locations and they are a big supporter of Street Cars as a connector from the medical center to the research park.

It is a proven fact that street cars bring all kinds of new developments along their path. People are going to have to start thinking differently if Winston-Salem is ever going to join the league of a true urban city. I support Street Cars for many reasons. I do beleive this will happen in Winston-Salem, because I know it is being supported by some of the city council members and a big supporter is the medical center. Street cars are not outdated, just the opposite. Alot of major metropolotian cities have street cars as public transit throughout their downtowns.

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The leaders should listen to the citizens and make the decisions the public wants, not just a select few. Representatives should always make sure what they are doing is what the majority of the citizens they are representing want as long as it does not go against current laws.
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Unfortunately, if the leaders of Winston-Salem were to listen to all of the narrow minded individuals, who are so opposed to change, Winston-Salem would and will turn into a dying city. It's not about what those workers in the past have thought, it's about the future and how to make this city more appealing to attract those who will ride street cars, who will take public transportation, who will live downtown. Those who don't like change can move. The are plenty of small, non progressive towns in NC to choose from. Unfortunatley, I don't want Winston-Salem to be ones of those places any longer and I am going to do all I can to support downtown revitilization. I am sure there are plenty of people who would welcome these types of changes.
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Any large, progressive city will have numerous topics of healthy discussion and discord, but as indicated, W-S must have the ability to respond to change. It did not have this ability numerous decades ago, which is (partially) why Charlotte and even Raleigh (although it is the State Capital) have long outstripped W-S. Speaking of historical, this is really bringing back the streetcars.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Build the streetcars!! Winston-Salem needs a new dimension to attract visitors and re:invent the downtown area. It will bring money to the City. Yes, it is a bold new idea that many locals do not

understand. Here in Roanoke there is a move to build streetcars once again but I'm afraid in VA the state could care less about them. Politicians can only support something that will provide them tangible results like sports stadiums, etc. Not many cities build streetcars-its kinda far out!

Good Luck and I hope I can travel there to ride them!

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