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100,000 Iraqis Killed since Bush's Invasion

monsoon

By monsoon
in The Coffee House

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ShowMeKC Hamlet

ShowMeKC

Posted
Posted

People don't agree with this war for many many reasons, the main one being, they hate Bush and would oppose everything not related to 9/11...

Another, this is a different kind of war... In WWII we never saw the millions upon millions of civilian casualties that were even worse off than these poor souls. We never saw the carnage and horror of the war unless you fought in it yourself... The truth is, war is hell and always will be hell...

In WWII, over 35,240,000 civilians were killed...

Addition to over 6,000,000 Jews murdered...

Over 60,000,000 people died in WWII...

Yet almost no one protested that war in ANY country.

In Vietnam, 4,000 US soldiers died in just 1 year... In this war, 1,000 US soldiers died in just 1.5 years.

For the first time, we are able to see SOME of the horrors of war on both sides of the conflict. People are waking up to what war really is.

What you see now, is what has always been, it is nothing new to the world. The only thing that is new, is the media coverage...

That prisoner abuse scandel, the photo of that soldier, etc... would have barely even made the back page in newspapers 50-60 years ago...

On another note...

I just added up the 5 major wars of the 20th century, the civilian and military casualties... The total adds up to be well over 105,000,000 people... War truely is hell...

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josita Whistle-Stop

josita

Posted
Posted

KC, coverage of the war in Iraq is very lacking.  Much worse than it was in other wars.  No one in the USA is being exposed to the carnage as they were when the Vietnam war was taking place.  This despite the huge advances in technology. 

The media is highly sensitive now to not upsetting their viewers with the facts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. I was born in the 70s, so I am not in the position to compare Vietnam to this war, but what I have heard is that there would be much more an outrage, like the 60s peace movement, if our media did show more images of the war.

Al-Jeezera does show these images and helped to increase the cause and fight against the US and its policies around the world.

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MathNerd05 Hamlet

MathNerd05

Posted
Posted

I haven't read all of this thread, so forgive me if I say something dumb or restate.

I feel we need to support what is going on, regardless of how we got there. It is pointless to try and find a scapegoat for what went wrong and when it went wrong, rather to learn from those mistakes and make sure they do not happen again.

On an international scene, the United States has to finish what it has started. Allies or no allies, backing out in the middle doesn't solve anything.

Terrorism is not an internationally recognized form of warfare. The Geneva Conventions do not cover the etiquette of terrorist warfare. The morality of it can be thrown out the window, so it is pointless to argue; "All is fair in love and war" becomes a frighteningly true statement. The killing of a human being, soldier or civilian, cannot be justified in my book. While the Iraqis are fighting for their life, realize that our men and women are doing their jobs. And they are damned good at it. However, desperation is a powerful ally...

News coverage has been pitiful.

We are there. Lets finish it and get the hell home. As a population we need to stop arguing over how we got there or the morals behind invading another country who maybe didn't want to be saved (or even the morality of the dead numbers), rather finish the job we started and return to our lives. When did America lose sight of our own beginnings and become "the United Hypocritical States"?

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ShowMeKC Hamlet

ShowMeKC

Posted
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Also in Vietnam, 4,000 people died in a year... 1,000 soldiers have died in 1.5 years in Iraq... You can in no way compare both wars...

Also, at the start of the war, over 250,000 US troops were in Iraq. Plus the other coalition troops...

The USA has over 1,400,000 active troops, we do not need a draft...

We had over 700,000 troops in Vietnam with the draft...

We can put over 700,000 troops in Iraq, without a draft...

(and I was kidding on my Bush hating comment, didn't you notice the ;) ?)

In 2002, the US Army had 480,000 active duty soldiers and 555,000 reserve troops...

As of 2002, the US Marines has 170,000 active duty troops and 40,000 reserve troops...

The Navy has over 500,000 active duty and reserve troops...

As you can see, no draft is necesarry

We could put more troops in Iraq than were ever in Vietnam... Without a draft :)

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ShowMeKC Hamlet

ShowMeKC

Posted
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Dude, my point was that we can put alot of troops in Iraq without the help of a draft... I know very well we can't put everyone in Iraq.

btw, the A-Bomb and the Nuke are two very different things... Atomic Bombs are nowhere near as powerful as nukes...

Bush wouldn't ever reinstate the draft (by that I mean making it completely active). This war won't last till 2007...

I also believe Iran has said they will stop their production of nuclear materials...

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ShowMeKC Hamlet

ShowMeKC

Posted
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We would also show the terrorists that we can't control the situation if we institute a draft...

Thus increasing terrorist activity in Afghanistan and Iraq.

If we just add some more troops in each country, mainly Iraq, we will be able to control the situation better...

We just need 1 more year till the Govt of Iraq is stronger and their military is in a good situation... After that, they can take care of themselves...

Imagine if Kerry had been elected, history HAS shown Democrats are worse in war but better in peace... Look at Vietnam as an example... Most of it was Johnson's fault.

I'm sorry but if Kerry had been president, a draft would have been the result... Unless he had pulled all of our troops out of Iraq. Which would have also been a huge mistake.

But like I said... We don't need a draft when we have over 1,000,000 army troops that can fight...

Even if there was a draft, how long would it last??? There are over 1,000,000 kids available for the draft each year... Way more than enough needed for Iraq...

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ShowMeKC Hamlet

ShowMeKC

Posted
Posted

Johnson was the one that got uys into the major part of the war... The idiot democrats complain about this war b/c we haven't found WMD and that the war was started for nothing...

Look at Vietnam...

Johnson told congress we were attacked by North Vietnam off the Gulf of Tonkin, however we were never attacked and he acted on premature and unreliable information... Sure it started with Eisenhower, but Johnson started the actual war by escalating our involvement in the conflict and indirectly declaring war on North Vietnam.

Anyhow... A draft is not needed and never will be needed for Iraq.

If a draft is created, the terrorist will notice us with the draft, and will thus believe we are weak and can't handle the situation... Then they will increase their activities in Iraq and Afghanistan to take control of the situation...

If we institute a draft, the situation WILL become like Vietnam and we WILL lose the war...

Right now, we are winning the war. No matter what some democrat says...

Critisizing Bush for unreliable information is just hypocritical for democrats...

Anyhow. I don't care if there is or isn't a draft, as long as it isn't started in 2006 on... My family won't be affected and I won't be affected as long as it isn't started in '06...

Bush, Rumsfeld and Cheney have all stated they will not allow nor create a draft... No matter what Kerry says about them or the draft...

May I also remind you that it was Kerry who started all this stupid draft talk... In fact, he was doing it to bash Bush and scaring people to voting for him...

I'm just gonna stop arguing about this... I have faith in Bush, and I will pray for no draft to come... This war will not last for 2-3 more years... This war won't get significantly worse, no draft is needed... I refuse to listen to democratic propoganda...

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paulblackgsx Whistle-Stop

paulblackgsx

Posted
Posted

Anyhow. I don't care if there is or isn't a draft, as long as it isn't started in 2006 on... My family won't be affected and I won't be affected as long as it isn't started in '06...

That's kind of a selfish attitude.

I find it highly unlikely we will see a draft for Iraq. I will agree, a lot of the draft talk was scare tactics. However, it is true that if Iran starts a war, and certainly if they involve atomic weapons, we likely will have a draft.

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Brickell Burg

Brickell

Posted
Posted

I'm on the fence on this one. I don't think rummy and bush want to create a draft. But I do think it will be inevitable if we involve Iran. The way the administration is handling things and the sabrerattling that iran is doing, I'd put those odds at 50/50 right now.

so i'm not going to be surprised when they start the draft up.

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