Will baseball return to Greenville?

[Spartan]

You know, that is a good point. I can say that I, an probably thousands like me, do not particularly enjoy driving on I-85, 385, or 36 for that matter. So why build a stadium near an interstate, and force everyone to drive on it to get there, thus cloggin up the interstate itself?

[goodbye]

I think it could work if the planning was properly done; however, I recall the many cries to steer clear of any project which could encourage further urban sprawl in Greenville County. Therefore, it only makes sense to allow the stadium to be built in the most urbanized area in the upstate where it can both add to the development of downtown, and also thrive from the already strong pedestrian vibrancy located there.

[vicupstate]

Interesting article on cities and sports stadiums....

Building stadiums, not schools

By DERRICK Z. JACKSON

The Boston Globe

In his first major address this month as the new president of the National League of Cities, Mayor Anthony Williams of Washington called for a national online network where people could access important information about other cities. Williams said he wanted to

[goodbye]

Those figures are unfathomable! I'm glad that our issues are currently on a much smaller scale. Not that I think it is any less important, just a little more in the realm of sanity.

[Spartan]

Interesting.

[goodbye]

In case you missed this article in the Greenville News on Sat.

Mandalay files baseball plansPosted Saturday, January 1, 2005 - 1:08 am

STAFF WRITER

[email protected]

Mandalay Baseball Properties filed the paperwork Friday to build a $27.3 million stadium in the Upstate and met its New Year's Eve deadline, but it declined to say where it wants to build.

The cities of Greenville, Mauldin and Greer have said they are seeking a team to replace the Greenville Braves, who have left after more than 20 years here.

"We made our formal application in time for the deadline," Mandalay spokesman Kevin Mortesen said. He said his group cannot release the proposed location or other details.

"The directive came from Minor League Baseball, who said they didn't want the (economic) package discussed in the media," he said. "We have selected a site."

The West Tennessee AA Diamond Jaxx team and the Capital City Bombers also have indicated interest in coming to metro Greenville.

But Minor League Baseball will approve only one team for the area.

The city of Greenville's plan calls for the single-A Bombers to move into a proposed stadium in the West End, and the Diamond Jaxx are talking with Mauldin.

[btoy]

Don't be suprised if the Mandaly plans don't include Greer. I was at Hot Jave friday and I over heard someone say to Dave Swenson of the Greer Development Corp something to the effect of "Sorry the Baseball thing fell through"

[vicupstate]

Don't be suprised if the Mandaly plans don't include Greer.  I was at Hot Jave friday and I over heard someone say to Dave Swenson of the Greer Development Corp something to the effect of "Sorry the Baseball thing fell through"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very inteersting... the plot thickens..

I wonder if they made a deal with Woodruff, LOL

Or maybe Mauldin...?

[Spartan]

Maybe he was one of the potential developers for the Greer site. I can't believe that they would just drop the idea altogether?

I still would lke to see it come to Spartanburg , but I know that won't happen. You need that Greenville market to stay afloat. Greenvillians won't come to Sparkle City like Spartans will go to Greenville.

[btoy]

He wouldn't have been a Developer. The Greer Development Corp. is a public/ private orginization whose job is to Recruit bussiness to Greer to create jobs and tax revenue.

[goodbye]

The Mandalay plan would definitely work in downtown as well, although I know that the city is currently contracted with the Bombers.

The larger size stadium, if built in a thriving location, would encourage minor league baseball officials to consider moving a higher level team to the ballpark in the future.

I don't mind a smaller stadium, though, and the early proposal from the Bombers would definitely fit in well with the growth of downtown in the West End.

[btoy]

I went and check out the Downtown Greenville location today, and I must say a ball park there would be awsome for that part of town. And while I have been partial to Greer I now think the West End location would be best, I just wish Mandalay would be the ones to do it there.

Brad

[Spartan]

This keeps getting better and better. Look like Brad was right- Greer is out, Anderson is in. I found this on the SHJ site but its a direct feed from the Independant-Mail. I edited the article becuase alot of contained info that we already know.

Mandalay: Anderson now batting for team

By Emily Berry | Anderson Independent-Mail

Until this week, it seemed as if the tussle over Minor League Baseball in the Upstate would remain at a distance.

Now Anderson County is in the game.

Mandalay Baseball Properties, which had been negotiating with the city of Greer over relocating a single-A baseball team there, submitted an application last week to Minor League Baseball requesting permission to move its Hagersville, Md., team to Anderson County, county economic development director John Lummus said.

Lummus and County Administrator Joey Preston on Tuesday confirmed the county had sent a letter to Mandalay offering standard economic development incentives similar to what the county would offer an industry or a large-scale commercial project. That typically involves membership in a multicounty industrial park, which would allow for infrastructure credits. Neither Preston nor Lummus would elaborate on the specifics of the proposal.

Neither Mandalay spokesman Kevin Mortesen nor Minor League Baseball would comment this week on the specifics of its Upstate proposals, but said there are three pending applications from teams that want to move to the region.

The decision rests solely with league President Mike Moore, and there is no deadline for his decision.

When one proposal is chosen, it will eliminate the others, since league rules prevent teams from locating in adjacent counties.

Jim Ferguson, director of media relations for Minor League Baseball, said it's highly unusual for the league to have three proposals for a single market. The only other relocation in the league this year is a team moving a few miles from its current location to a new stadium, he said.

Lummus said he couldn't offer any details on where a stadium might locate, or what kind of incentives might be offered in exchange for the $27.3 million Mandalay is proposing to invest.

"The county was introduced to Mandalay by a private third party," Lummus said. "We have talked with them about baseball for Anderson County. I cannot give you any specifics on it because Minor League Baseball has asked that we not talk about specifics."

He did confirm that Anderson County has been included in Mandalay's proposal.

Mortesen said the company would not discuss specific locations for the same reason, but did say the company is prepared to build a state-of-the-art stadium, much like ones it built in Frisco, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio. The company has been successful in those towns, he said.

Its team in Dayton has played in front of sold-out crowds for every game over the past five years, and both stadiums have won awards from within the industry, he said.

The Dayton team has won the Prism award, designating it the best franchise in all of minor league sports twice in a row, he said.

If the Hagerstown, Md., team moves, the company will buy another team to locate there, he said.

Mandalay's negotiations with Greer broke down over revenue and taxation issues, City Administrator Ed Driggers said.

He said most of the sites under consideration in Greer were near the interstate. Mandalay wanted Greer to retain ownership of the land on which the stadium would sit, making it tax exempt and eliminating any property tax revenue.

Greer and Greenville County would be left with parking fees and hospitality tax, he said.

Based on the projected attendance, that revenue wouldn't pay off the bond issues offered by Greenville and Spartanburg counties as an incentive. The deal stalled.

"We shook hands and wished them well," Driggers said.

http://www.independentmail.com/

[vicupstate]

Thanks for the scoop Spartan!

Very interesting indeed. Like someone said, this is far more interesting than an actual baseball game. My preference is first for the West End, followed second by anywhere outside of Greenville County.

If Anderson does get it, that will mean Freedom Weekend Aloft and Minor League baseball have both left Greenville for Anderson.

[btoy]

I think Anderson is getting a team from the wooden bat league as well. THat is for college players to play on in the summer.

I can promise you this, if they go to Anderson I won't go to any games, and they will have to compete with Clemson as well. That is Clemson territory and I promise you that lots of the baseball fans in the area I bet would rather see Clemson Baseball than Minor league.

But then again I may be wrong, Anderson is a growing market. They have a shopping center that is going to be built at I-85 and HWY 76 (600,000 sf) that is going to be bigger than the Shops at Greenridge (575,000 sf?)at Woodruff and I85 in Greenville/Mauldin.

[btoy]

I almost wonder if Mandaly was planning on Anderson from the start. I had heard someone say that when Greer was aproach by them that they thought Greer was being used as a barganing tool. I thought if so it was being done with Greenville, but I wouldn't be surprised if they used Greer to get better incentives from Anderson and kept Anderson secret the whole time so that it would work.

Then again, I may just be imagining a conspiracy.

[vicupstate]

I think Anderson is getting a team from the wooden bat league as well.  THat is for college players to play on in the summer.

I can promise you this, if they go to Anderson I won't go to any games, and they will have to compete with Clemson as well.  That is Clemson territory and I promise you that lots of the baseball fans in the area I bet would rather see Clemson Baseball than Minor league.

But then again I may be wrong, Anderson is a growing market.  They have a shopping center that is going to be built at I-85 and HWY 76 (600,000 sf) that is going to be bigger than the Shops at Greenridge (575,000 sf?)at Woodruff and I85 in Greenville/Mauldin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excellent point about Clemson. If the site is just inside Anderson County, I don't think that effect would be as strong. The further down I-85 toward Anderson, the more likely the pull of Clemson and the distance from Gville would be issues IMO.

[Spartan]

I think Anderson is getting a team from the wooden bat league as well.  THat is for college players to play on in the summer.

I can promise you this, if they go to Anderson I won't go to any games, and they will have to compete with Clemson as well.  That is Clemson territory and I promise you that lots of the baseball fans in the area I bet would rather see Clemson Baseball than Minor league.

But then again I may be wrong, Anderson is a growing market.  They have a shopping center that is going to be built at I-85 and HWY 76 (600,000 sf) that is going to be bigger than the Shops at Greenridge (575,000 sf?)at Woodruff and I85 in Greenville/Mauldin.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I completely agree. That is why I now support the Bombers moving to the West End. The Bombers had to compete with the Gamecock baseball in Columbia, and I see no reason why Anderson should have a team to compete with Clemson. Downtown Greenville now seems like the most logical place to me.

[goodbye]

Thanks for the post, Spartan!

I heard about this article early in the morning, but was unable to do anything, or even read it for myself. I knew one of you would help us out though, so thanks a bunch!

My take on Minor League Baseball in Anderson is this:

I nearly have no trouble seeing Anderson being able to support a single A team currently. In some ways, the people in the county (which is mostly rural) could really take pride in a professional team to call their own, and give it their full support over the next few decades. On the other hand, since I know the area well, I can't say for sure that a team playing in a triple-A stadium will be able to attract enough of the locals from the small towns and communities to properly feed the franchise. People living in the central/southern/western parts of the county live entirely different lives than do people living in and around the larger cities and suburbs of Greenville and Spartanburg. Life is much slower and home/family oriented, which can potentially mean there would be a high risk that they may become less interested in showing up for all of the home games that are played by a baseball team of this scale. I am also presuming that there will not be the kind of fan support coming from Greenville that a franchise moving to the Upstate might want.

There is a quick run-down on my own thoughts regarding this idea.

[btoy]

Today's Greer Citizen made some good points. What is going on right now is just the fighting for the rights to a franchise territory. Which ever on the three teams is awarded the territroy they are not bound to the site on their application. Therfor if Mandaly or any other team wins the territory they can then choose to locate where ever they want in that territory wether it be the west end, Greer in Greenville County, Greer in Spartanburg County, Anderson or Mauldin. Just something to think about.

Oh and this is something to look into. Did Mandalay ever meet with the Anderson City Council?

[Spartan]

That is a goo point that I had not considered. It might be in the Independant-Mail, but I'm not that interested in giving all of the viltals required to view their articles.

[goodbye]

Great point! I'll be looking for that possibility after Minor League Baseball makes up their minds.

[gs3]

This keeps getting better and better. Look like Brad was right- Greer is out, Anderson is in. I found this on the SHJ site but its a direct feed from the Independant-Mail. I edited the article becuase alot of contained info that we already know.

Mandalay: Anderson now batting for team

By Emily Berry | Anderson Independent-Mail

Until this week, it seemed as if the tussle over Minor League Baseball in the Upstate would remain at a distance.

Now Anderson County is in the game.

Mandalay Baseball Properties, which had been negotiating with the city of Greer over relocating a single-A baseball team there, submitted an application last week to Minor League Baseball requesting permission to move its Hagersville, Md., team to Anderson County, county economic development director John Lummus said.

Lummus and County Administrator Joey Preston on Tuesday confirmed the county had sent a letter to Mandalay offering standard economic development incentives similar to what the county would offer an industry or a large-scale commercial project. That typically involves membership in a multicounty industrial park, which would allow for infrastructure credits. Neither Preston nor Lummus would elaborate on the specifics of the proposal.

Neither Mandalay spokesman Kevin Mortesen nor Minor League Baseball would comment this week on the specifics of its Upstate proposals, but said there are three pending applications from teams that want to move to the region.

The decision rests solely with league President Mike Moore, and there is no deadline for his decision.

When one proposal is chosen, it will eliminate the others, since league rules prevent teams from locating in adjacent counties.

Jim Ferguson, director of media relations for Minor League Baseball, said it's highly unusual for the league to have three proposals for a single market. The only other relocation in the league this year is a team moving a few miles from its current location to a new stadium, he said.

Lummus said he couldn't offer any details on where a stadium might locate, or what kind of incentives might be offered in exchange for the $27.3 million Mandalay is proposing to invest.

"The county was introduced to Mandalay by a private third party," Lummus said. "We have talked with them about baseball for Anderson County. I cannot give you any specifics on it because Minor League Baseball has asked that we not talk about specifics."

He did confirm that Anderson County has been included in Mandalay's proposal.

Mortesen said the company would not discuss specific locations for the same reason, but did say the company is prepared to build a state-of-the-art stadium, much like ones it built in Frisco, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio. The company has been successful in those towns, he said.

Its team in Dayton has played in front of sold-out crowds for every game over the past five years, and both stadiums have won awards from within the industry, he said.

The Dayton team has won the Prism award, designating it the best franchise in all of minor league sports twice in a row, he said.

If the Hagerstown, Md., team moves, the company will buy another team to locate there, he said.

Mandalay's negotiations with Greer broke down over revenue and taxation issues, City Administrator Ed Driggers said.

He said most of the sites under consideration in Greer were near the interstate. Mandalay wanted Greer to retain ownership of the land on which the stadium would sit, making it tax exempt and eliminating any property tax revenue.

Greer and Greenville County would be left with parking fees and hospitality tax, he said.

Based on the projected attendance, that revenue wouldn't pay off the bond issues offered by Greenville and Spartanburg counties as an incentive. The deal stalled.

"We shook hands and wished them well," Driggers said.

http://www.independentmail.com/

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In talking with some friends in real estate, they told me some interesting points on the above. Notice the article states several times "Anderson COUNTY", not "Anderson". Anderson County starts imediately where 185 meets 85 on the west side of Greenville....very few miles from downtown. (Greenville County is extremely narrow). From what I gather (not facts, but guesses from reliable sources), Mandalay wants to put the stadium on 1-85, just west of of the 185 / 85 interchange, which would put it near the growing Highway 153 area....a burb of Greenville. This would actually be a very central area for upstate....about 30 miles from Anderson (city) and 30 miles from Spartanburg, obviously right on the Greenville southwest side doorstep.

[btoy]

Good point, I just naturally here Anderson County and think Anderson, to me that is all that is in the county. But I forget that even parts of the Piedmont area of Greenville is in Anderson County.

Thanks for bringing that up.

[Spartan]

But that 30 miles grom Spartanburg is a solid 45 min to an hour drive depending on where you are coming from. I can guarantee if it gets bulit in Anderson I won't go to many (if any) games.