Will baseball return to Greenville?

[heyheyhey]

My point is that the Bombers are fully funding the stadium in Greenville.

They didn't bulid in Columbia because they wouldnt fund part of a stadium with the City and USC. The lack of support was a part too, but not the only one.

Do people in Greenville go to see Clemson baseball games alot?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You must not be reading the same articles I am about the Bombers efforts in Columbia. In every article I read the Bombers offered $3 million towards the construction of an $11 million stadium.

I mean freakin Mauldin has figured out to how to come up with $11 million in bonds for a baseball stadium and our STATE CAPITAL can't! These things disturb me.

Ron Morris then wrote that the Bombers had offered to build the stadium (same deal as Greenville) and allow USC to be the primary tennant, but the university did not want to pay rent to the Bombers and play in a facility that they did not "control".

The Bombers attendence in Columbia last season was an 98,000 the Braves was 143,000 in a "lame-duck" season. Traditionally we averaged around 150-175,000.

I was annoyed that the G-Braves left for Mississippi just like everyone else.

Again, these are businesses. I completely understand why the Braves left. The G-Braves were playing in an outdated facility, especially for AA, and were nowhere near getting a new stadium anytime soon b/c of the division of county and city gov.

Most people up here who studied the issue understood why they left.

The G-Braves were offered a FREE stadium in Mississippi. Who wouldn't go. It's the equivalent of someone from Florence walking into my dry cleaning business and saying "Hey, hey. We love dry cleaning over in Florence. If you will bring your business to Florence we will give you a state-of-the-art facility FREE of CHARGE."

I'd be gone from the upstate in a second.

And no I don't go to Clemson games. I perfer the pro game. B)

[jfl25]

Correct me if im wrong ,but isn't the dead line for a decision Jan.31 . 3 days until some awnsers finally.

[btoy]

I herd on WORD 1330 AM yesterday that there was no deadline at that it could be a while before a decision was made. Something about there being questions that needed to be answered that none of the proposals answered.

[vicupstate]

Very informative and interesting article from the current issue of Metrobeat

JANUARY 26, 2005

IN THE BALANCE: Take Me Out To The Cleaners

What will Minor League Baseball decide?

BY JIM HENNIGAN

With all three minor league baseball teams identifying sites for their teams, lots of us are pondering which team's proposal we like best. Not that anyone's asking, but I have to admit that I would attend more games in Mauldin than elsewhere if given the choice. I'm sure downtown ballparks are fine, but you couldn't move the Mauldin site any closer to my house without it being a nuisance. Perfect location if you ask me.

Sadly, nobody's asking me. Or you. The decision is up to Mike Moore, the president of Minor League Baseball. So I'm going to examine what his choice will probably be (and pray he doesn't prove me wrong before we go to press).

Minor League Baseball has rules that make its decision easy to handicap. With the big bucks that owners pay to play, rest assured Baseball won't break from these rules without damn good reason.

Rule #1 says that Baseball will review the highest class team's application first. And Rule #2 says that, between teams in the same classification, the first to submit its proposal will be reviewed first.

That means the AA DiamondJaxx (Mauldin) are first, the Single A Bombers (Greenville) are second, and the Single A Suns (Powdersville) are third. If an application is incomplete or has serious gaps, Baseball will reject it and look to the next in line. It's not a shootout or beauty contest. Once Baseball finds an acceptable proposal, the review process stops and that team is awarded the territory.

The Suns, owned by Mandalay Sports Entertainment, have an incredible package on the table. Yet they are at a huge disadvantage under Baseball's rules. As attractive as their package may seem to regular folk like us, Baseball probably won't even consider it.

The Suns play in the same league as the Bombers, the Bombers have the required league approval to move here while Mandalay's proposal is missing that key element. At least not unless Mandalay finds a team from another league - one that would place their proposal at the top of Mike Moore's in-box. Mandalay could do all that if they change their proposal to bring a AAA team to Greenville instead of the Suns. (See Rule #1).

Mandalay owns a AAA team in Las Vegas, a city now being eyeballed by the Major League Oakland Athletics, who could send Mandalay what amounts to an eviction notice. Mandalay also plans on acquiring a second AAA team eventually - and the Ottawa Lynx are currently on the block. If Mandalay bumps up to a AAA team, it's case closed, because Moore will award them the territory hands down.

If Mandalay doesn't supersize its proposal inside a week or two, they will confirm the suspicion that they are really just making the case to get help with a new stadium in Hagerstown. That leaves the DiamondJaxx proposal atop Moore's in-box.

Too bad, then, that when Moore opens it up, he'll see that the DiamondJaxx proposal has more holes in it than Swiss cheese with a terminal case of acne. And it will stink like said cheese, too.

For starters, in a market where single A teams are pitching in $4 to $6 for every dollar of public funding, the DiamondJaxx are only investing 20 cents for each publicly financed dollar. Another huge problem is the timetable. For the DiamondJaxx to move here by April 2006, Mauldin claims stadium construction must begin within 45 days. Mauldin can't risk starting construction on a stadium for a team that might not move here, so it has to wait for baseball to decide and then pay off Jackson, TN to forego its 45-day option to buy the team and keep it there.

Mauldin also can't break ground until it has funds it intends to raise by selling bonds. But there's a pending lawsuit that contends the component of the financing approved by Greenville County illegally cheats the school district out of tax revenue. Litigation is rarely a catalyst for the conservative bond community to loosen its pursestrings.

Before buying bonds, the bond community also likes to feel confident that they will be repaid. They know - and Mike Moore knows - when numbers and assumptions are being pulled out of someone's, uh, hat. So Moore won't overlook the fact that repayment hinges on the DiamondJaxx attracting someone willing to pay $8 million in naming rights (or $400,000 per year for 20 years). That's a million more than the NFL Carolina Panthers negotiated just a year ago. Last month, Greensboro, NC - a city once seriously considered as a home for the Minnesota Twins - closed a blockbuster naming rights deal for under $3 million.

Repayment also assumes 1,000 cars parked per game at $3 each and 240,000 fans per year paying a $1.50 ticket surcharge. Add another $0.83 per fan so the team can pay its lease costs and that's $2.33 per ticket extra that must be collected to pay back bondholders - without driving away any of those 240,000 fans.

For every 10,000 fans short of 240,000 admitted, add 10-15 cents per ticket (thereby introducing rainouts into the stadium financing analysis). The Jaxx drew 159,000 last year while the G-Braves drew 143,000 in their lame duck season (suggesting a $3.00 or higher surcharge is in order; and tack on at least $1 extra if the naming rights deal is similar to Greensboro's).

Moore has reviewed enough of these projects to understand it will take some Pollyannish bond customers to fund the Jaxx' second new stadium in 7 years.

Which underscores yet another problem - the embarrassment of Baseball bailing out a team that wants to ditch a city with 13 years of payments remaining on the team's other new ballpark. This alone should be enough to make Mike Moore take a peek at the proposal that's next in line. My guess is, if the number two proposal is sound, he will find a way to force the Jaxx to make a bona fide effort in Jackson (which isn't close enough to any other leagues to attract a replacement baseball tenant).

If Moore takes that peek, the proposal he'll find is one from the Bombers, hoping to relocate from Columbia, SC to downtown Greenville. The Bombers hold the Ace of Spades in this slowly unfolding drama - the flexibility to make a mid-season move to its new stadium. The Bombers have the ability to move here even if their new stadium isn't ready on time. That's because only the Bombers can play in the City of Greenville's Municipal Stadium until their new digs are ready. If the DiamondJaxx can't move into their stadium by Opening Day 2006, they're screwed.

Probing the Bomber's proposal deeper, Moore will hit nothing but bedrock - a financial package that is sound and locked in, with no wild assumptions. The stadium, paid for by the team, represents almost $12 million of direct investment. But the complete package, when you add in additional residential and retail development included in the team's commitment, will come to almost $30 million. That's ten times what the DiamondJaxx are risking in local investment.

Baseball knows that the DiamondJaxx' stadium is a house of cards. With each day that passes without a decision, some people might assume Mike Moore is extending a lifeline for the Jaxx to get things fixed. I tend to think the more line that goes out, the easier Moore is making it for the Jaxx to tie their own noose so he can rule on the Bombers' proposal without any argument. On the bright side, with an anticipated $17 per game savings for my family in ticket surcharges alone, that drive downtown might not be so bad after all.

Jim Hennigan is a Greenville attorney and proud Republican who represented Tony Trout in his defense of the 2004 primary challenge.

[jfl25]

I think the artical by Jim Hennigan makes alot of sence . Hopefully that means downtown will get the go ahead to start const. on its new stadium.

[Spartan]

You must not be reading the same articles I am about the Bombers efforts in Columbia. In every article I read the Bombers offered $3 million towards the construction of an $11 million stadium.

The Bombers attendence in Columbia last season was an 98,000 the Braves was 143,000 in a "lame-duck" season. Traditionally we averaged around 150-175,000.

Again, these are businesses.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. The Bombers offered more of their own money to Greenville than they did to Columbia. How much is their proposed stadium in Greenville? Its more than $3 million.

The Bombers are also AAA. GBraves were AA. Does that effect attendance in other cities?

Just so we're all clear here- My preferences are for the Bombers to get out of Cola. The stadium arrangement with USC and Columbia isn't a big concern to me Greenville will be best served by a downtown stadium. I hope the guy in that article was right, and that they win the bid.

[goodbye]

The game continues into the final innings - we can only hope.

Tennessee city could act to keep Jaxx

Posted Monday, January 31, 2005 - 8:15 pm

By Anna B. Brutzman and Heidi Coryell Williams

STAFF WRITERS

Mauldin wants the Diamond Jaxx, but the baseball team's hometown leaders in Tennessee are scrambling for a way to keep the double-A Cubs franchise where it is.

The Jaxx applied this fall to move to Mauldin after poor attendance triggered a clause in the team's contract with Jackson, Tenn., to leave the city of 60,000

[goodbye]

In case anyone is interested in reading the history of this funny thing we call "better than baseball," you will find the past articles from the Greenville News by clicking on the link below. Enjoy!

Attempts To Get A Baseball Team In The Upstate

[Spartan]

Good. I hope that Tennessee is successful

[vicupstate]

From the new issue of Metrobeat...

Upstate baseball stadium situation remains fluid

Take Me Out to the Cleaners, Part II

Since the overview of the Minor League Baseball proposals in last week's Metrobeat, there have been several developments, of which one could sway the decision by the Commissioner. As predicted last week, the City of Jackson, Tennessee is indicating it intends to ride out its 45-day option to buy the team, effectively putting the Mauldin/Diamond Jaxx proposal on ice. Unless the City of Jackson is paid enough money to release the team sooner, it will be difficult for the Commissioner to award Greenville's territory to a team that might be obligated to play in Tennessee. At least the Jaxx got some good news when taxpayer advocate Ned Sloan, under intense pressure from Mauldin, settled the key part of his lawsuit challenging the county's economic support of the Jaxx. It remains to be seen whether school district trustees will take up his fight to keep over $3 million in school district tax dollars from being shunted across America to repay Mauldin stadium bondholders.

The Powdersville stadium site has raised some eyebrows at the Greenville Water System. Even though it's in Anderson County, the stadium site could depend on water and sewer service from the City of Greenville-owned water system. One high-ranking city official noted that the Greenville Water System is under no obligation to provide water service to any site outside the city limits. Considering the significant extensions and infrastructure that would be required to provide service to the Powdersville stadium, the Greenville Water System could literally pull the plug on a Powdersville stadium and flush that proposal down the drain. This kind of intrigue had the Commissioner dispatch Baseball's independent counsel, George Yund, to town late last week to review all three proposals. Yund was mum on when a decision will be made, but considering how much entertainment this decision is creating, Metrobeat readers can't be blamed for hoping the Commissioner takes his sweet time. (Jim Hennigan)

The plot thickens...

[goodbye]

Very interesting, Vicupstate! If all of this info turns out to be in play, then I would have to say that Greenville's plan is currently the leader. But tomorrow may bring another twist in the plot...

[Spartan]

I saw on Channel 7 just now that Minor League Baseball chose the Bomber's for Greenville! They had a rendering which I am sure will be in the paper tomorrow.

[goodbye]

Yippy!!!! Thanks for that info! Man, what a great relief to hear such news. You just made my day/week/month/year! They made the BEST possible choice, I'm positive they'll see from day one on.

[goodbye]

Here is the same rendering I saw in the newspaper a few months ago. It is from the News4 website.

[goodbye]

Here is a blip of the story from News 4...

Minor League Baseball Returning To Greenville

Capital City Bombers Moving From Columbia To Greenville

POSTED: 5:25 pm EST February 11, 2005

UPDATED: 6:25 pm EST February 11, 2005

GREENVILLE -- A year after the Greenville Braves minor league baseball team moved to Mississippi, Minor League Baseball says Greenville will get another minor league team this year.

Officials with the Capital City Bombers in Columbia said they learned just before 5 p.m. that they have been given permission to move to Greenville.

The decision means that two other teams, the Class AA West Tennessee Diamond Jaxx and the Class A Hagerstown Suns, will not be coming to Mauldin and Powdersville, respectively.

Only one minor league team can occupy a county or adjacent counties.

Bombers General Manager Rich Mozingo said the team will play at Municipal Stadium on Mauldin Road this season, while a new $15 million stadium is built in the Old West End just south of downtown Greenville.

Mozingo said the team will change its name to the Greenville Bombers.

WYFF News 4's Marla Cichowski and Erin Hartness will have the latest on this story at 11 p.m.

[btoy]

That is so Great. That is going to spur so much new growth in the West End. I am really excited. I was going to be really mad if it ended up in Powdersville.

[btoy]

From the Greenville News

Baseball fans to get team in Greenville's West End

Posted Friday, February 11, 2005 - 9:50 pm

By Ben Szobody, John Boyanoski and Julie Howle

STAFF WRITERS

Minor League Baseball called the game Friday, informing the Capital City Bombers as business hours ended that the single-A Red Sox affiliate from Columbia has the green light to relocate to downtown Greenville.

It means a new baseball stadium will take shape in the city's West End, not in Mauldin or Powdersville. It means local fans will have a game to watch this season, not a wait for next year. And it means the hometown team will supply the long-cursed and now world champion Boston Red Sox, not the long-cursed, non-world-champion Chicago Cubs or New York Mets.

On the lively downtown scene Friday night, bar and sidewalk patrons greeted the news predictably well, though not all for the same reasons.

What will be good for Cecil Lawson's Island Blend restaurant traffic is a relief for Mauldin residents Jim and Sue Chamberlin, who will be able to attend games without the requisite baseball traffic near their home.

"I'm thrilled to have baseball back," Sue said. "There's more to do downtown before and after the game."

"It's a great benefit," said Franky Erby, a Greer resident who talked up the associated activities and family functions. "You're talking about a whole lot of money for Greenville," he said.

In picking the Bombers, league president Mike Moore sent packing the double-A Diamond Jaxx, which had proposed locating in Mauldin, and the single-A team that Mandalay Baseball Properties proposed establishing in Anderson County. Both of the other groups had trumpeted prime suburban locations and higher-priced stadiums.

Greenville Mayor Knox White said the Bombers' downtown stadium will do more than just put baseball near the city's epicenter

[vicupstate]

Indeed this is great news! I guess the Metrobeat writer knew what he was talking about.

Six months after the new stadium opens, everyone will wonder why ANY other site was even considered.

Greenville Mayor Knox White said the Bombers' downtown stadium will do more than just put baseball near the city's epicenter — it will be the last major piece of downtown's redevelopment.

Now that the baseball stadium seems to be in place, I think the city and county need to look at an expanded and relocated Zoo. I haven't been to the Zoo here, but the location is a little remote, and I understand that it is pretty small. They should look at the large vacant area on Academy Street just as you head toward downtown. Although, I understand some of that area is plenty low and is in the flood plain.

While the stadium will fill in the last remaining "anchor" for the West End/Downtown, the city needs to still fill in some gaps. The city should proceed with a new "old" city hall, and developing more condos in that area.

[btoy]

The Zoo in Greenville is not remote. It is at Cleavland Park on Washington Street which connects Main St. to Laurens Rd. Cleavland Park is connected to Falls Park isn't it? (that is an actual question not sarcasam, I am not really sure weather or not it is but I am thinking it is). Washington St. has been seeing its share of new developement, just accross the street from Cleaveland Park is going up the Richland, an upscale condo building.

You are right that the zoo is small, but can we wupport something bigger? I think already they have financial problems with the size it is. I think it needs to be better promoted and bring back the traveling exipitions like it used to.

[jfl25]

Finally the right decision was made, does anyone know the groundbreaking date.

[btoy]

One of the articles said some time in April.

[vicupstate]

The Zoo in Greenville is not remote.  It is at Cleavland Park on Washington Street which connects Main St. to Laurens Rd.  Cleavland Park is connected to Falls Park isn't it?  (that is an actual question not sarcasam, I am not really sure weather or not it is but I am thinking it is).  Washington St. has been seeing its share of new developement, just accross the street from Cleaveland Park is going up the Richland, an upscale condo building.

You are right that the zoo is small, but can we wupport something bigger?  I think already they have financial problems with the size it is.  I think it needs to be better promoted and bring back the traveling exipitions like it used to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can't see it from Washington Street, which is a street only a local would know about anyway. The Columbia Zoo has it's own interstate exit. At least on Academy Street, it would be on a US highway, and you could walk to it from downtown easier. The two parks do connect, under the Church Street bridge, but it is not very inviting.

The whole support,size/promotion,location thing is a catch-22. If they had a better location and promoted it more, it could support itself better. But which comes first? This would definitely need to be a long-term, down-the-road project. But I think the site and the goal should be put in place now. We don't want to stop stretching ourselves just because we finally have a baseball stadium. On the other hand, we do have three vacant musuems too.

[btoy]

From this mornings Greenville News, tells about what the baseball team could do for the west end.

Team's arrival means a whole new ballgame

Posted Sunday, February 13, 2005 - 12:32 am

By Ben Szobody

STAFF WRITER

[email protected]

Greenville's team came to town Saturday, with all the blazing honesty of a weary survivor in a three-way smackdown.

It turns out the ruckus could only now be heating up, the months-long battle to put pro baseball in Greenville merely the light salad before what is now a mad binge to build a downtown stadium in a year, hold a home opener in 61 days and find base-path chalk, hot dog warmers and a local phone number posthaste.

Minor League Baseball gave its blessing to the Bombers and their plans for a downtown stadium last week, ending months of fierce competition between three prospective baseball groups. The team begins local operations on Monday. Staff and executives arrived Saturday expressing overt relief and some anxiety.

Aside from the Bombers, as they will be known for at least one more year, West End landowners will now scramble to flip suddenly prime parcels of dirt and pavement for handsome lucre. The city of Greenville commences an ambitious beautification push for a district that has seen its supposed rebirth only in fits and starts.

Private developers are readying drawings for the stadium's fringe, a mixed-use project that could at long last put retail and urban residential units where town prostitutes once preferred to stroll.

And residents, fans, downtown patrons and idle watchers are scratching their heads, trying to absorb what this all means.

On the weekend downtown bar scene, reactions were expectedly rosy yet oblivious to the hundred things that will happen soon, and not just the scratching, chewing and stretching habits of nine guys on a field.

For years, the Rocks and Ropes climbing gym has looked across the street to weeds and barbed wire. Dozens of nights each summer, there will soon be a ballpark's noises

[goodbye]

The Zoo in Greenville is not remote.  It is at Cleavland Park on Washington Street which connects Main St. to Laurens Rd.  Cleavland Park is connected to Falls Park isn't it?  (that is an actual question not sarcasam, I am not really sure weather or not it is but I am thinking it is).  Washington St. has been seeing its share of new developement, just accross the street from Cleaveland Park is going up the Richland, an upscale condo building.

You are right that the zoo is small, but can we wupport something bigger?  I think already they have financial problems with the size it is.  I think it needs to be better promoted and bring back the traveling exipitions like it used to.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The zoo is inseparably connected to Cleveland Park, and technically Falls Park as well. I would love to recomend the hiking/biking trail which runs from Falls Park to Cleveland Park along the Reedy River, but the area between the two parks is in extreme need of beautification. Currently, you may pass one or two homeless people along the trek. It isn't very far at all, though. I've been on that trail many times. It could become an incalculable asset to downtown pedestrian traffic in the near future as more development happens up and down the Reedy.

One stop along the path that you should make is the Rock Quarry garden just off of McDaniel Raod. It is a compact park that you can easily miss, but in the Spring it boasts beautiful flowering trees and shrubs, and ponds with a small waterfall spilling over a large rock face. The grassy space in the middle, next to the creek, is excellent for picnicing. I've seen people out there doing photo shoots more than once in the past. Check it out!

[Spartan]

I found this:

I can't remember if someone has posted this before, but its still relvant

edit: actually this link is a comprehensive list of articles about baseball in Greenville.