Will baseball return to Greenville?

[gs3]

But that 30 miles grom Spartanburg is a solid 45 min to an hour drive depending on where you are coming from. I can guarantee if it gets bulit in Anderson I won't go to many (if any) games.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Again, my post said "Anderson County", not "Anderson". Anderson County starts about 7 mile from downtown Greenville. Look on a map. I think the upstate as a whole has a very reasonable commute...downtown Greenville to downtown Spartanburg in 25 to 30 minutes.....far less than the commute for Atlanta suburban communities into downtown Atlanta (and people from Gwinnett, Alpharetta, etc still go to Braves games).

If the site is right inside Anderson County on I-85, the southern burbs (Simpsonville, etc) could jump on the connector and be there in 15 minutes.

[vicupstate]

Again, my post said "Anderson County", not "Anderson". Anderson County starts about 7 mile from downtown Greenville. Look on a map.  I think the upstate as a whole has a very reasonable commute...downtown Greenville to downtown Spartanburg in 25 to 30 minutes.....far less than the commute for Atlanta suburban communities into downtown Atlanta (and people from Gwinnett, Alpharetta, etc still go to Braves games).

If the site is right inside Anderson County on I-85, the southern burbs (Simpsonville, etc) could jump on the connector and be there in 15 minutes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Downtown Greenville to Downtown Spartanburg is not 30 minutes. At least not during most times. 45 minutes to an hour if there are no wrecks/traffic jams.

[gs3]

Downtown Greenville to Downtown Spartanburg is not 30 minutes.  At least not during most times. 45 minutes to an hour if there are no wrecks/traffic jams.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just did a "mapquest"....Main Street Greenville to Main Street Spartanburg is 28 miles. Considering 97% is freeway 30 is about right. I actually make it in less than 30, but then I will admit I'm a very aggressive, fast driver (but always safe!)

[goodbye]

But I forget that even parts of the Piedmont area of Greenville is in Anderson County.

Too true! I have family living there (Powdersville ), and it is as close to downtown as many places on the Eastside, and even some within the city itself, when you consider travel time.

And BTW, I have been on the Southern Connector many times and know that it is only a 10-minute drive from one end to the other, making Powdersville very accessable to the large population in the Golden Strip.

Another thing to consider is, if a stadium were to be built in Powdersville, the Connector itself would also benefit from the additional travelers that would take it to the home games. This would make the owners very happy!

As I've said before, I am in no way a proponent of urban sprawl in any form, so my preference remains to have the stadium built in downtown Greenville.

[Spartan]

Again, my post said "Anderson County", not "Anderson". Anderson County starts about 7 mile from downtown Greenville. Look on a map.  I think the upstate as a whole has a very reasonable commute...downtown Greenville to downtown Spartanburg in 25 to 30 minutes.....far less than the commute for Atlanta suburban communities into downtown Atlanta (and people from Gwinnett, Alpharetta, etc still go to Braves games).

If the site is right inside Anderson County on I-85, the southern burbs (Simpsonville, etc) could jump on the connector and be there in 15 minutes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you take 585-85-385 you can do it in 30 mins. I will confess that I've done it in 30 mins at night. But in the day its horrible. People hate driving on 85 (at least in Spartanburg). Also, Anderson County is a psychological barrier. Unless you are truely dedicated, people will say "I deally fon't want to drive to Anderson." I want you to understand that I see your point, but that its the principle of the thing. I would be much more likely to go if it were in DT Greenville.

Downtown Greenville to Downtown Spartanburg is not 30 minutes.  At least not during most times. 45 minutes to an hour if there are no wrecks/traffic jams.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Like I just said. It is possible in 30 mins, but not probable, at least not during the day. You can hardly make it to Greer in 30 mins during rush hour. I spent 10 minutes on N. Pine in Spartanburg, going north between St John St and McRavey Dr (near Regional) the other day during rush hour. That is normally about a minute and a half to two minute trip. 3 if you catch the lights wrong. That add ten minutes (at a total of 40 now) to Greenville. Then consider how backed up 85 gets.....

This is where I get into my spill about extending 585 closer to downtown. I think transit planning in Spartanburg is rather poor, although it has improved.

[goodbye]

I would be much more likely to go if it were in DT Greenville.

My point exactly! It is people just like you, who come to Greenville for a night on the town, that will make the difference in the ultimate future success of a baseball stadium in the upstate. Like I've already said, build it in the very epicenter of business and tourism and it will have to survive.

[goodbye]

Here's an article from today's Greenville News on the subject...

County says no tax money at risk in baseball stadium deal

Posted Friday, January 14, 2005 - 8:23 pm

By Nan Lundeen

STAFF WRITER

[email protected]

Residents won't be responsible to repay bonds that could be issued to help return minor league baseball to the area, Greenville County Attorney Mark Tollison said in response to a lawsuit filed against the county.

The Greenville Braves moved to Mississippi last year, and three teams are vying for the venue. Only one will be chosen by Minor League Baseball.

Special source revenue bonds are allowed under state statute and don't pledge the full faith and credit of the taxing power, Tollison wrote in a response to a lawsuit filed against the county by resident Ned Sloan challenging a multicounty industrial park funding mechanism.

The mechanism has been upheld by the state Supreme Court, Tollison wrote.

The bonds aren't general obligation bonds, as Sloan has claimed, according to Tollison.

The county states that it followed all appropriate rules in passing an ordinance establishing a multicounty park.

Sloan said he had no comment, and his attorney wasn't available. No court date has been set.

The court case could hurt Mauldin's chances to land a double-A, Chicago-Cubs-affiliated Diamond Jaxx team, as the multicounty park mechanism is part of the city's $20 million financial package.

The city of Greenville also is vying for a new team the single-A, Boston-Red-Sox-affiliated Bombers to be located in a new stadium in the West End.

Friday, Mandalay Baseball, who at first courted Greer where it would build a $23 million stadium for its single-A, New York Mets-affiliated Hagerstown, Md., team, announced it will make a presentation to Anderson County 6 p.m. Tuesday.

Mandalay spokesman Kevin Mortesen said the firm has picked a site, but he wouldn't reveal it.

Anderson County Council Chairwoman Gracie Floyd wouldn't say whether the council will consider offering Mandalay tax incentives.

Nan Lundeen can be reached at 298-4316.

[btoy]

Mandalay Announced thier new site in Anerson County. IT is to be at the Intersection of i-85 and HWY 153. More info to come.

[Spartan]

Here is that site. My mapping program predates the Southern Connector. Maybe I should invest in a new one?

That green square is the most likely site.

Thanks for that info brad!

[goodbye]

Actually, I think it will be diagonally across I-85 from where your green box is. The posted map is definitely in need of an overhaul. That will put it in my kin's backyard!! They live in Woodson Lake Estates, so if the park is built there, I'll be able to park for free and walk to the games!

Even so, I would still rather the stadium be built in the West End.

[Spartan]

Actually, I think it will be diagonally across I-85 from where your green box is.  The posted map is definitely in need of an overhaul.  That will put it in my kin's backyard!!   They live in Woodson Lake Estates, so if the park is built there, I'll be able to park for free and walk to the games!

Even so, I would still rather the stadium be built in the West End.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well that creek will have to be diverted, which is why I put the box where I did.

[goodbye]

Here's the article in Greenville News...

Powdersville stadium pitched

Posted Tuesday, January 18, 2005 - 10:54 pm

By Anna B. Brutzman

STAFF WRITER

[email protected]

Powdersville residents could be getting a major professional baseball venue in their backyards if the latest proposal for an Upstate team gets approval from Minor League Baseball.

A 200-acre site on Interstate 85 and State 153 is the county's choice for a business park where California-based Mandalay Baseball Properties wants to build a $27.3 million stadium and 2,500 parking spaces on 30 acres, according to Rich Neumann, the company's vice president for development.

As part of the development, an additional 37 acres would be set aside for condominiums, retail and a 140-room hotel, he said. The business park's remaining 133 acres could be developed some time in the future, Neumann said.

On a 4-2 vote Tuesday, Anderson County Council approved a $17.5 million incentive package. It lets Mandalay use 25 percent of all the property taxes collected inside the 200-acre business park for 20 years to pay off stadium infrastructure, but it is capped at $17.5 million, Anderson County economic development director John Lummus said. Reaching the cap would require investment in the park of more than $250 million, he said.

Dissenting were council members Cindy Wilson and Michael Thompson.

Wilson objected Tuesday to Mandalay's proposal, saying that the site is too far from most Anderson County residents and county incentives should have been subject to more council review. State 153's Exit 40 near the Saluda River is about a 30-minute drive from downtown Anderson.

"It's going to be far closer to Greenville than it is to the city of Anderson," she said.

Mandalay applied late last month to move the single-A Suns of Hagerstown, Md., to Anderson County, said the company's spokesman, Kevin Mortesen.

It is one of three owner-operators of Minor League Baseball teams wanting to move into the territory abandoned this year by the double-A Greenville Braves, which will play in Mississippi in 2005.

B)

[goodbye]

Well that creek will have to be diverted, which is why I put the box where I did.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You know Spartan, you may be right. I thought it looked like it was over next to Cooper Road on the map they showed on TV, but I can't positively back that up. Either place will out-do Mauldin in my opinion.

[btoy]

When I posted last night that it would be at 85 and 153 I coulnd't remember where that was. BUt as soon as I saw the headline this morning I knew the exact site.

In my opinion Powdersville is a really bad idea, now I am for West Head completely.

Oh ya, who ever it was that said it would be just over the county lin ein Anderson, Good call.

[goodbye]

BTW, it is next to Cooper Road, across 85 diagonally from the green box.

I saw the overhead drawing in the Anderson Independent Mail this morning.

[Spartan]

BTW, it is next to Cooper Road, across 85 diagonally from the green box.

I saw the overhead drawing in the Anderson Independent Mail this morning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh well

[goodbye]

Here's an article from today's Greenville News...

Stadium decision expected in days

Posted Wednesday, January 19, 2005 - 8:48 pm

By Heidi Coryell Williams

STAFF WRITER

[email protected]

EASLEY

[heyheyhey]

Best article on the Greenville baseball drama that I've seen yet...

None of these teams will ever play a game as exciting as this one!

LINKY

[Spartan]

Welcome to the forum heyheyhey!

That is an interesting article. It still irks me that the Bombers are sticking it to Columbia, but I agree with the author that they will probably be the best choise.

I wonder why he thinks that the Jaxx will have holes in their proposal?

[jfl25]

A stadium in downtown would be great. I believe the downtown stadium would bring more people into downtown and help the buisness' on mainstreet. People could make a day of it (shopping, eating, enjoying falls park and seeing a ball game) what could be better.Plus it would remove an eyesore from the westend.What ever the decision i just wish it would hurry up i'm getting impatient.

[heyheyhey]

Thanks Spartan but I must admit I do not share in your assesment of the Bombers departure from Columbia.

I have friends who work in the local government that have told me the Bombers did everything short of building the stadium in Columbia (a city that hasn't proven it wants to support minor league baseball) going as far as committing to build the stadium, let USC be the primary tenant and only ask the city for land (same deal as Greenville).

As far as I am concerned the Bombers ownership group is conducting sound business. (That's what I'm interested in, the business not the baseball).

The current ownership group purchased the team from a horrible owner over two years ago. The current ownership group owns wildly successful franchises in Chattanooga and Portland (ME) so they know what they are doing. They negotiated for 2+ years and finally reached a deal with USC only to see your mayor "the champion of minor league baseball" chicken out and not take the offer to your city council. (Don't get me started on Columbia politics).

The ownership group then explored other markets and determined that Greenville had the population and past history of support (remember the Braves left not b/c of "lack of support" but b/c they got a sweetheart deal in Mississippit and I don't blame them one bit.) The Braves deal is almost complete opposite of the Bombers in that the city if FULLY FUNDING a $25 million ballpark. Boy I wish they'd build my dry cleaning business a nice new facility!

As Mr. Hennigan's article points out the Bombers and Suns ownership groups' asking very little out of public finance support and that sits quite well with me.

But like I said in the previous post I don't think we will see a game as exciting as this drama.

[Spartan]

My point is that the Bombers are fully funding the stadium in Greenville.

They didn't bulid in Columbia because they wouldnt fund part of a stadium with the City and USC. The lack of support was a part too, but not the only one.

The G-Braves' attendance wasn't that great as I recall.

So the Bombers are going to fund their own stadium in Greenville, whose baseball apetite isn't that much better the Columbia? Just doesn't seem right to me.

Also, after they applied in Greenville, they turned around and asked if they coudl stay in Cola just incase their deal with Greenville doesn't work out.

That said- I am not trying to say Greenville doesn't need the Bombers. I would be more likely to go to a Bombers game if it were downtown for sure, and I do want to see Greenville have a team. I was annoyed that the G-Braves left for Mississippi just like everyone else.

Columbia does have Gamecock Baseball which will probably always be more active/profitable than a private team.

Do people in Greenville go to see Clemson baseball games alot?

[goodbye]

Not I.

[btoy]

As Good as the Clemson Team is I never so tons of people at any of the Clemson games I went to. But I never went to enough to say they are poorly attended.

Brad

[goodbye]

Here is an interesting history of baseball in Greenville I thought you all might enjoy.

Baseball in Greenville, S.C.

Former stars for Upstate South Carolina team

have included Shoeless Joe Jackson, Nolan Ryan

Through the 2004 season, Greenville, S.C., located just a couple of hours away from Atlanta, had served as a haven for much of the Braves' future talent. Its proximity to the parent team left Greenville as a prime location for rehabbing injured major leaguers. Greenville hasn't always been a Braves town.

Baseball made its way to Greenville in 1907 when the town entered a team in the S.C. State League (D Class). The Greenville Eskimos -- an interesting nickname for a team in Upstate South Carolina -- finished 25-28 and 12 games out of first place.

In 1908, team management changed the nickname from the Eskimos to the Spinners to reflect Greenville's chief industry of textiles. That 1908 team included future Major Leaguer Joe Jackson. Jackson hit .346 and was one of the league leaders. Thomas Stouch managed the team from 1907 until 1912. In 1910, the Spinners finished 63-40 to win the Carolina Baseball Association championship.

In 1919, the Spinners moved to the South Atlantic Association. Seven years later, in 1926, the Spinners beat Richmond four games to one in the Southern Association playoffs. The next season, the Spinners knocked off Portsmouth in the opening series of the playoffs, but fell to Jacksonville 4-3 in the second round.

The Spinners finished 85-57 in 1930 and won the league playoff over the Macon, but lost the Southern Championship to Selma.

In 1930, the team became a part of the D-Class Palmetto League for one season. That league disbanded on July 23, 1931 and the minor league team disappeared from Greenville from 1932 until 1938 when it resurfaced as part of the South Atlantic League.

The war years of 1943-45 left Greenville without a baseball team. But, in 1946, Greenville rejoined the South Atlantic League. Two years later, the team finsihed 84-69 and won the championship by beating Columbia 4 games to 1 in the championship series.

In 1951, the Spinners moved to a new league, the Tri-State League, B-Class. In 1955, the Spinners finished second in the league with a 60-55 record, but lost in the playoffs to Spartanburg.

The Spinners were out of minor league baseball from 1956 until 1960. They reappeared in 1961 as a member of the South Atlantic League. In 1963, the team became a part of the Western Carolinas League (A) and became an affiliate of the Milwaukee Braves. In 1965, the team changed its name to the Greenville Mets and were affiliated with the New York club.

From 1968 until 1971, the Greenville baseball team was a member of the Boston Red Sox system. In 1972, the team spent a year as part of the Rangers' organization.

Baseball disappeared from Greenville in 1973 and didn't come back until the city was awarded the AA affiliate of the Atlanta Braves for the 1984 season. Since that time, the club has played at Greenville Municipal Stadium. The facility seats 7,027 and opened in 1984.

Nolan Ryan pitched for Greenville during the 1966 season. He pitched in the Western Carolinas League All-Star game and was named the contest's Outstanding Pitcher.

The Greenville Braves were located in Greenville, S.C., through the end of the 2004 season. That's when the team opted to make the move to Pearl, Miss. The move brought an end to a streak of AA baseball in Greenville that began in 1984.