New Greenville developments

[DowntownCityGirl]

I had a feeling this project might show up on here.

I am the developer for this project and we still have a lot of hurdles to get over before this thing becomes a reality.

I held a meeting last Thursday night at the Cain Halter YMCA to gauge the attitude toward this project from those living in a three block radius.

We had a turn out of about 43 concerned people but for the most part it was received much better than I could have hoped. There will still be some opposition but I am hoping to keep it to a minimum with information and some open communication between me and the residents.

The project still has to get through the rezoning and I really do believe it is not only good for the neighborhood but the city as a whole, but without that rezoning this project cannot move forward.

I hope to have a website up in the next couple of weeks which will hopefully help me market the project as well as gauge the interest from potential tenants.

For this project to work I will be looking at the highest rental rates in Greenville. The high rental rates are due to the flood plain issues, Extremely high land cost, and intentionally keeping the number of units low so that the project would fit into the neighborhood without overloading it.

A two bedroom unit will most likely be in the $1,700 a month range but these will be designed to look and feel as little like apartments as possible. I do not think this would work with 80 to a 100 units but I am gambling a lot that there are 30 people willing/able/ and excited about being in a unique development in that location.

I would love to hear some opinions on if the price point works, as well as any other ideas that might could work.

I was disappointed (although admittedly, not terribly surprised) to see this my facebook news feed this afternoon:

http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/neighbors-opposed-to-apartments-at-cleveland-park-stabl.html

[GvilleSC]

I was disappointed (although admittedly, not terribly surprised) to see this my facebook news feed this afternoon:

http://www.gopetitio...park-stabl.html

They'll always find something wrong... They use the word "massive" to describe this development, and out of scale (at the height of 40 feet tall to the peak of an angled roof). They should be thankful that the proposed demographics are in line with the neighborhood, and it looks this GOOD! Typically these people are ill-informed.

I can't see why the City would block this; one of many reasons for them to approve it: the Swamp Rabbit Trail. The City/County is receiving lots of great publicity and praise for this initiative, and this simple approval vote would go a long way towards endowing its future as a SAFE, and widely used trail.

[Urban Infill]

This is very unfortunate and I imagine the developer is going to have a long road ahead of him as the site is not zoned for his use. There are several individuals that live in that area that has political clout and the ability to prevent the project from going forward. It appears to be a great project with a definite demand for the proposed use. I never really understood the NIMBY mentality when it comes to responsible development as I don't see how this can detract from their home value. I could somewhat understand if the proposed product was low income housing (I am a proponent for affordable housing in the proper location by the way) or an unappealing retail user.

I think it would be in the developer's best interest to hold a neighborhood meeting before this goes in front of council and layout how this project can positively impact the neighborhood and address any concerns. I am familiar with the group doing this and believe they are very capable of delivering a solid project.

[greenvilleARC]

I appreciate the postive comments guys and yes I know and have always known that I would be fighting a serious uphill battle concerning this project. I have had several meetings with the local community over the last several months and most of those I have met with I have felt walked away feeling better about the project.

I understand the communities concern and I also understand the sensitive and important nature this location and have worked very hard to try to put together a project that not only had the mass to hold anchor at such a vital point in this neighborhood but also remained as understated as possible.

What that letter fails to say is that per code I am allowed to do 40 units. THE ONLY reason that the number is less than that is to keep this project from seeming to big or dense. Ask any developer what I am giving up in those five units and they will tell you what a difference it makes on a spreadsheet.

As far as traffice is concerned I have had several meetings with the cities Traffic Engineer and he was just short of rolling his eyes at the idea that there is to much traffic in this area. Yes, the dog park creates parking issues, but per the city they have plans to relocate the dog park soon.

Also, if this property is not rezoned from its current zoning of r9/r6 then this property will remain in a state of Limbo as the current zoning simply is unreasonable due to the floodplain issue. I understand that many residents who live in this area are very reluctant to see change in what is pretty much an ideal situation but I do not think they are looking at the long term ramifications of what they are fighting.

The current stables are in need of a serious infusion of money and horses to make this a viable and attractive future use. As it stands now they will continue to fall into disrepair till you have vacant and delapidated buildings that are the only buffer from a heavily used public park and the adjacent high dollar neighborhood. Without a substantial residential development of some kind on this property to ensure an attractive and populated long term buffer I think the neighborhood as a whole would suffer. In teeth and real estate decay always spreads until it is dealt with.

The Public Hearing will be Feb 9th. Due to the fact that the city will not allow me to submitt this project as a PD because it is not mixed use I am having to try and have it rezoned as RM 1.5. Basically this means that the council should make a decision based on "THE BEST" possible zoning use for this property and not the project itself. In actuallity my project should not come into play but I am sure it will and I am happy to present it as it is as something that is good for the entire community.

I am sure I will be making lots of new friends at the public hearing but I do not have a problem defending what I believe is a good thing. I do hope that misinformation concerning this project is not what is driving the opposition.

Anyway I am always open for comments, critiques or suggestions regarding the project.

[greenvilleARC]

I know there are some members on this site who are proponents of this project and I would like to extend the invitation to anyone who would like to join me in stepping in front of the firing squad next Thursday and make an argument for well thought out urban development versus decisions based on fear and a NIMBY attitude.

I think the neighboorhood has all the right in the world to let their feelings be known and their opinions considered. Likewise, if the planning commission truly believes that this project is not good for the area I have no problem with them rejecting the project. I do have a problem with those elected to be the cities forward thinking and future planning vangaurd caving to public opinion. I know I am so vested in this deal at this point that it is hard for me to have a objective view point but I do not see how anyone could look at this property with an impartial eye and say that it should only be residential single family.

Anyway, if anyone is interested in getting together and talking about some possible arguments that could be put forth in favor of a higher density use on this unique property, I would love to get together somewhere downtown next tuesday evening to discuss.

Also if anyone besides me is dumb enough...errr I mean feels so pationatly about this issue that they would like to speak out in favor of it at the public hearing then that would be welcomed as well.

Feel free to IM me if interested.

Thanks

Edited January 31, 2012 by greenvilleARC

[goodbye]

Have you thought about referring to the Richland at the Park development? Those are fairly tall residential structures, but they are not disruptive to the character of the community, in my opinion. Also, a new 4-level home was recently built on McDaniel Avenue, across from the Rock Quarry Garden. It is not disruptive either. In fact, I believe both are excellent examples of "tall" residential structures in the same neighborhood that are attractive rather than disruptive.

[GvilleSC]

^^ Going off that too, there's lots of examples of very wide, older homes in the neighborhood. So, your massing really can't be far off the mark for what is already established, a good many of which are on Woodland Way...

[greenvilleARC]

I appreciate the help and yes there are plenty of examples in that area that go toward making the point. Unfortuantly, common sense and resonable discussion has been thrown out of the window. LIke I said, I cannot see how someone who looks at this objectivly does not think that a solid multifamily use is perfect for that area. I can understand if someone has issues with the design and really nothing is set in stone at this point, but the limitations and challanges of the property also limit design options.

I will be very impressed if the Staff and Planning Commission will be able to make a decision that is not heavily influenced by the amount of pressure that will coming down on them.

[scgubers]

Have you thought about referring to the Richland at the Park development? Those are fairly tall residential structures, but they are not disruptive to the character of the community, in my opinion. Also, a new 4-level home was recently built on McDaniel Avenue, across from the Rock Quarry Garden. It is not disruptive either. In fact, I believe both are excellent examples of "tall" residential structures in the same neighborhood that are attractive rather than disruptive.

The four story home across from the Rock Quarry is, in my opinion, a hideous unfinished stone monstrosity. However let me go on the say that I live near these proposed apartments and am excited at the prospect of them being built. You could also point to the old 1930's condos on the corner of Newman and Cleveland.

[GvilleSC]

You could also point to the old 1930's condos on the corner of Newman and Cleveland.

I LOVE those! They're fine now, but they could be wonderful if someone would invest some money into them.

If they're not on the historic register, they need to be added before it's too late.

[GVLbikeNboard]

The four story home across from the Rock Quarry is, in my opinion, a hideous unfinished stone monstrosity. However let me go on the say that I live near these proposed apartments and am excited at the prospect of them being built. You could also point to the old 1930's condos on the corner of Newman and Cleveland.

I agree about that four story one, seems like they have been trying to finish it for more than a couple of years now and it hasn't impressed me at any stage of the build!

[scgubers]

I LOVE those! They're fine now, but they could be wonderful if someone would invest some money into them.

If they're not on the historic register, they need to be added before it's too late.

Couldn't agree more. They're the hidden secret of that neighborhood I think. 90,000 gets you an awesome 2 bed 1 bath within walking distance to downtown. Saweeeet.

[GvilleSC]

The Greenville News is reporting that a private entity wants to develop the proposed Cancer Survivors' Park between Falls and Cleveland Parks. Their plans go far beyond the City's original proposal for the link. Not only does it involve a new bridge over the Reedy, but also a pavilion, water wall, and a spire-type structure that would be lit at night and be visible from Church Street. The Chamber of Commerce will give up part of its parking for the revamped greenspace.

Sounds pretty impressive!

[vicupstate]

An ambitious, privately developed park that will connect Falls Park downtown with Cleveland Park along the Reedy River in one long stretch could break ground this year, ultimately adding a new access point to the Swamp Rabbit Trail and an eye-catching architectural mark just off Church Street.

The park’s primary purpose will be to celebrate cancer survivors with monuments, a pavilion, meditative space, a water wall and possibly a bell, backers say.

It’s taken years to coordinate numerous parties with a stake in the prime riverside stretch, which winds from Cleveland Street behind the Chamber of Commerce building, beneath Church to the rear of County Square at the foot of Falls Park.

What is now one of the trail’s grimmest stretches that hairpin-turns around a precipitous embankment of kudzu could become another downtown gateway and a key piece of an economic development node that includes a redesigned boulevard on Church and the NEXT Innovation Center.

The nonprofit group Patients First will overseee the project, said Diane Gluck, the group’s acting executive director, adding that the plan has yet to go before Renewable Water Resources, which owns some of the property, as well as Naturaland Trust, which also owns additonal pieces.

The city, which would maintain the site, has already budgeted $94,000 in restaurant tax funds for the site and has forecast more than $620,000 in future costs for trail access and a new bridge, though that money hasn’t been committed, city documents show.

Mayor Knox White said the city is interested in safer trail linkage and a new bridge, and that City Council will further deliberate its role in the project in the upcoming capital budget.

The current plan goes far beyond that scope. After more than 10 years piecing together the project, Gluck said formal fundraising is about to begin and color images of the space are turning heads.

With a flourish, architect Ben Rook showed a vibrant tableau this to council members week that depicts a cascading, multi-level development where the Chamber parking spaces and the dormant kudzu now sit. A deep carve-out will create space for a meandering ramp down to a green park space and the trail beside it. A water wall and cancer-related memorials will be there.

A pavilion with a tall spire referential of the Falls Park suspension bridge will extend from the upper level and cover bathrooms and possibly other space below, Rook said, adding that the structure will be lit at night and visible from Church.

More meditative green space will be arranged on either side of the river toward downtown, a new bridge will replace the clanking series of metal grates that currently run over sewer lines and some kind of access will descend from Church, Rook and Gluck said.

Landscape architect Tom Keith told GreenvilleOnline.com that the more active areas around the pavilion will extend the types of boulders and gardens found in Falls Parks, while the more passive areas across the river will highlight native plants in keeping with the wishes of Naturaland Trust.

The bridge and its pedestrian traffic will rise above much of the green space, he said, creating quiet gathering spots below.

All told, the project would complete a green swath of nearly two miles of unbroken park space and trails from Cleveland Park at Washington Street to the terminus of Falls Park just off Augusta Street.

The ambition of the project surprised City Councilwoman Gaye Sprague, who said this week she was familiar with the simpler city plans to add trail access there and replace the bridge.

White said the parts that go beyond the city’s needs for a better trail and bridge would have to be privately funded.

City Councilman Davidd Sudduth said he gets more complaints about the “cheese-grate bridge” next to the sewer lines than any other part of the trail. Rook said he’s working with a British firm on a high-end, streamlined, supported span, not a suspension bridge.

City budget documents show $54,000 marked for a trailhead this year and $517,000 forecast for the next fiscal year. Another $40,000 is budgeted in the current year for a new bridge, with $110,000 forecast but not committed.

Gluck said she’s working with a total budget of roughly $3 million, or closer to $4 million if you include city funds. Rook and Gluck said they have some money in hand already, and that more intensive fundraising begins shortly.

The Chamber, which is giving up some of its parking space, sees the project as a huge benefit, though careful planning is necessary for the two days during the week when Chamber parking is at its peak, executive vice president John Moore told council members.

Ultimately, the site helps transform both Church and the trail, White said.

“We see more housing and offices along the improved Church Street and connecting it all to Falls Park and the river,” he told GreenvilleOnline.com.

Rook said the space, including the pavilion, will be public. The city has long envisioned a new place to park and ride the Swamp Rabbit Trail at that point. A separate access spot is being developed on the other side of downtown, near the Salvation Army’s Kroc Center.

The survivors garden been a long time comping, and was initially planned on a different stretch of riverbank. Rook said six to eight entities, from the Army Corps of Engineers to the Wyche law firm, have an interest in the stretch. The cancer group is catalyst, while he said the city presides over it all.

A memorandum of understanding between the groups has been completed, and Gluck said she’s running the emerging plans by a couple more parties, including the sewer authority. During years of false starts, she said the project’s scope has been muted publicly, until now.

Donors will be able to shape some of the particulars in the survivors garden, and Rook said he’d like to see a bell that people can ring in celebration.

The idea, backers say, is to enhance unfettered public access to the trail while peeling off a quiter space appropriate to the subject of cancer survivors. Gluck said it’s intended for anyone touched by the illness.

Sounds Impressive!!

[Galley]

We discussed the "cheese grater" bridge at our most recent Bikeville meeting. The reason for the grated surface, of course, is that it lies in a flood zone. The bridge would have to be raised at least six feet, and thus would be much longer. The sewer pipes will remain.

[GVLbikeNboard]

That grated bridge is so dangerous to cyclists, hence the signs saying to walk across. I managed fine with the larger tires on my mountain bike but have heard plenty of stories of people going down on skinny road tires. A friend of mine went down a while back, and although he caught himself on his feet his bike was not so lucky! It was totaled because of the frame being bent in a couple of places. A new bridge would be awesome.

[goodbye]

Ben Rook also designed the original (abandoned) plans for the Cancer Survivors Park, which was to be built along the creek behind the West End Market. The dramatic gazebo structure in thatthe design is apparently still planned at the new site.

[vicupstate]

From the Gville News:

The University of South Carolina will follow Clemson University in establishing a presence for its business school in downtown Greenville.

But don’t expect a big Tiger versus Gamecock rivalry because USC’s footprint will be much smaller than Clemson’s, and the deans of the two business schools say they will cooperate.

Hildy Teegen, dean of USC’s Moore School of Business, said the school plans to open an office with two classrooms at a central downtown location by the end of the month.

She said the office will be linked to Columbia and other Moore School locations around the state via advanced telecommunications technology and will be used to deliver instruction from Columbia for the school’s professional MBA program.

Greenville-area students in that program now meet for classes at the University Center on Pleasantburg Drive, but they will gather downtown once the new office opens, Teegen said.

She said the Moore School needed to control its own space in Greenville and sees benefit in being close to restaurants and hotels downtown.

Teegen said she wasn’t at liberty to disclose the exact location of the office because details are still being arranged. She said the Moore School has already signed a lease to occupy about 1,600 square feet of office space.

In addition to MBA classes, the downtown office could also be used for alumni events and special programs, Teegen said.

For example, she said, Greenville-area residents might use the telecommunications network to take part in the Moore School’s annual Economic Outlook Conference in Columbia.

Or BMW executives in Greer might join colleagues in Munich over the network for real-time executive training by the Moore School, Teegen said.

She said the Moore School recently opened a similar office in Charleston’s historic district with the help of Charleston businessman Charlie Way, one of its board members.

Teegen said the telecommunications network uses high-definition “telepresence” technology and was developed over the past two years with the help of AT&T, Cisco Systems, and Polycom.

Moore school sites in Aiken, Spartanburg, Bluffton, Columbia and Charleston are already connected, she said.

“We can now have true interactivity between and among actors at each of these sites,” Teegen said.

“So you could be sitting in Spartanburg, I could be sitting in Aiken and we could have some other students sitting in Bluffton, and it looks as though they’re in the same classroom and they can talk and work with each other simultaneously.”

Clemson moved its master’s of business administration program and other programs downtown in 2010, taking more than 30,000 square feet in the former Bowater Inc. headquarters next to Liberty Bridge and Falls Park.

About 300 graduate students study at the site, called Clemson by the Falls.

Claude Lilly, dean of Clemson’s College of Business and Behavioral Science, said he welcomes the Moore School to downtown.

“I don’t see this as a battle,” he said. “I see this as a win for the Upstate.”

[GvilleSC]

I wish they were going to be taking up more office space. Being a distance learning operation, this is a lot less exciting than I anticipated it to be...

I guess we'll take every square foot of leased office space we can get.

[GvilleSC]

Greenville Daily Photo is featuring the new look of Brown Street today: http://www.greenvilledailyphoto.com/index.php/2012/02/14/brown-street-renovations/

"Wow" is all I can say! The archways are completely unexpected from the generic arches I was expecting. Though I'd rather have seen more string lights down the street, I think the City did a nice job!

[vicupstate]

I agree it looks nice. Once the trees green up, it will look even better. Hopefully they will do the next block too, eventually.

[Greenville]

I agree, this looks really nice. Definitely transforms the look and feel of Brown Street!

With that said, I don't really understand why Brown Street was chosen for such an investment. I love Brown Street Club, but other than that what is there? I'm just not seeing the potential here for much more development, especially since some of the buildings on Brown street don't even seem "developable" in the urban sense of the word. Is it possible to have inviting storefronts there, with street level retail? I'm envisioning a street with a surface lot, a parking building, and some other buildings that back up to Brown Street. Someone please enlighten me (and convince me I'm wrong while you're at it!).

[vicupstate]

I agree, this looks really nice. Definitely transforms the look and feel of Brown Street! With that said, I don't really understand why Brown Street was chosen for such an investment. I love Brown Street Club, but other than that what is there? I'm just not seeing the potential here for much more development, especially since some of the buildings on Brown street don't even seem "developable" in the urban sense of the word. Is it possible to have inviting storefronts there, with street level retail? I'm envisioning a street with a surface lot, a parking building, and some other buildings that back up to Brown Street. Someone please enlighten me (and convince me I'm wrong while you're at it!).

What is to prevent the surface lot from being built on? What is to prevent the office building from converting from blank office windows to a storefront?

Nothing.

In fact the latter is already occuring in the next block of Brown.

Also on THIS block a outdoor patio for al fresca dining is already in the works. Also, the upper floors of the 808 building could fill up in response to this.

[north mainer]

I just walked Brown Street to check out the recent renovations and think that they have made quite a positive difference. I love the fact that this is a solid investment in developing the core of the city off of Main St. However, I really don't like the new archways. IMHO, they don't fit in with the character of Greenville's downtown and look like they belong at a theme park. In addition, they are pushed right out to the ends of the block and so are not even visible unless you are across the block or farther away (especially strange on the end facing E. North St .)

I am trying not to be too critical, but our city gets so much "right" that it is surprising to see this detail done poorly.

[StrangeCock]

All this for like one storefront? I guess it looks nice...but really puzzling.