New Greenville developments

[greenvilleguy]

However I don't really think tall buildings are a neccessity unless you can fill them. For years people have been screaming "mixed use, mixed use, mixed use," and now that all of the new developments are predominantly mixed use they can't even fill them up. I know you can't expect all the reatil/restaurants spaces to fill up over night, but I haven't seen very much progress, only vacant spaces. And until the city (not including the annonymous bank) does something about the parking problem downtown, no retail company is going lease the spaces. Free weekends just don't cut it for big name retailers. You must have available parking continually, or downtown is going to be filled with small locally owned retail. And while I like to see this type of retail exist, I just don't feel the need to pay $5.00 to park downtown to shop at the Pink Azelea.

[btoy]

However I don't really think tall buildings are a neccessity unless you can fill them.  For years people have been screaming "mixed use, mixed use, mixed use,"  and now that all of the new developments are predominantly mixed use they can't even fill them up.  I know you can't expect all the reatil/restaurants spaces to fill up over night, but I haven't seen very much progress, only vacant spaces.  And until the city (not including the annonymous bank) does something about the parking problem downtown, no retail company is going lease the spaces.  Free weekends just don't cut it for big name retailers.  You must have available parking continually, or downtown is going to be filled with small locally owned retail.  And while I like to see this type of retail exist, I just don't feel the need to pay $5.00 to park downtown to shop at the Pink Azelea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is just my opinion, but parking being a problem to me is a myth. I go downtown all the time, and I never have trouble finding parking, and I never pay for parking. So I don't understand what the problem is.

Also, I don't think we really know what the true status is on these mixed use structures until the developers tell us how full they are.

[RestedTraveler]

This is just my opinion, but parking being a problem to me is a myth.  I go downtown all the time, and I never have trouble finding parking, and I never pay for parking.  So I don't understand what the problem is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's not just an opinion, Brad, it's a fact.

There is always plenty of free weekend parking (except for special events) at the Richardson Street Garage (just behind the Mast General Store and Piazza Bergamo). Additionally, the Washington Street Parking Deck is free on evenings and weekends. The Bowater Garage (on Falls Street) is now offering free evening and weekend parking. And, rumor has it that SunTrust will be offering free evening and weekend parking on their lot as well.

Yea - there's a bit of a walk involved sometimes, but that's what's so great about downtown...if Downtown Greenville were a User Interface, Alan Cooper would be proud! It's very user-friendly and walkable.

[btoy]

And Don't forget about Poinsett Corners and The Transit Authority. The Transit Authority is where I usually park.

Also there is plent of parking at 2nd Pres. on River Street and the lot behind Greenville Summit.

[RestedTraveler]

...I just don't feel the need to pay $5.00 to park downtown to shop at the Pink Azelea.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And if you do choose to park at the Spring Street Garage, it's only $0.75/hour. I can't imagine you spending hours and hours at the Pink Azelea. Then again, I have, thanks to my wife and daughter. Something about monogramed soaps?

Edited September 1, 2005 by RestedTraveler

[JCT]

If demand for living and conducting business downtown continues to increase, we will have no choice but to build taller buildings.

Edited September 1, 2005 by JCT

[JCT]

This is just my opinion, but parking being a problem to me is a myth.  I go downtown all the time, and I never have trouble finding parking, and I never pay for parking.  So I don't understand what the problem is.

Also, I don't think we really know what the true status is on these mixed use structures until the developers tell us how full they are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with this. Greenville has over 7000 public parking spaces downtown. That seems like a lot for a city this size to me.

[csedwards72]

Cities like Paris and Prague illustrate that a dense and vibrant CBD can exist without very tall buildings. I would certainly not say that these great cities have a shaky foundation, but imagine a big tall tower in the center of Prague's historic core. I think that would definitely hurt its charm and appeal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Paris and Prague have vibrant centers without tall buildings because the buildings there serve different purposes than they do in Greenville and other places in the US.

US downtowns are almost exclusively commercial; until recently, almost nobody lived in downtowns but people lived in suburbs, so the buildings in US CBDs are designed to maximize office and accompanying retail space with minimum land costs, which means skyscrapers with shoe shine parlors and the like in the bottom.

In European cities, lots of buildings all over town have both commercial and residential space in them; people and live and work all over town, and areas aren't divided into either residential or commercial space like they are in the US. La Defense near Paris (the office/commercial district built in recent decades outside tourist/classic Paris) and the City of London are like US-style "downtowns" with limited residential areas, but most European cities don't have those types of areas.

There is a really interesting book called "Downtown" about CBD development and history that came out a few years ago; it's fascinating.

[vicupstate]

This is just my opinion, but parking being a problem to me is a myth.  I go downtown all the time, and I never have trouble finding parking, and I never pay for parking.  So I don't understand what the problem is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. As long as you don't expect to visually see your final destination from your parking space, you can find a space. Granted some times/days are easier than others, but it never takes me very long either. For starters, don't even bother looking on Main during business hours. Try the side streets (Spring, McBee, Brown, etc.) first.

[JCT]

Paris and Prague have vibrant centers without tall buildings because the buildings there serve different purposes than they do in Greenville and other places in the US. 

US downtowns are almost exclusively commercial; until recently, almost nobody lived in downtowns but people lived in suburbs, so the buildings in US CBDs are designed to maximize office and accompanying retail space with minimum land costs, which means skyscrapers with shoe shine parlors and the like in the bottom. 

In European cities, lots of buildings all over town have both commercial and residential space in them; people and live and work all over town, and areas aren't divided into either residential or commercial space like they are in the US.  La Defense near Paris (the office/commercial district built in recent decades outside tourist/classic Paris) and the City of London are like US-style "downtowns" with limited residential areas, but most European cities don't have those types of areas.

There is a really interesting book called "Downtown" about CBD development and history that came out a few years ago; it's fascinating.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks csedwards, I will definitely check it out the book you mentioned. You are right; comparing Greenville to any old European city is a bit of a stretch. My point was really just that any architecture that completely ignores its surroundings does have a negative effect on the environment it is placed in.

I agree that US downtowns serve a different purpose than historic European city centers. At the same time, I think that the recent trend toward live, work, shop type communities is a reaction to our strictly segmented

[csedwards72]

JCT- you made some really excellent points. When I read "Downtown," I realized that US downtowns were pretty much doomed from the day that they were built; naturally, people would get sick of long commutes from suburbs into CBDs and would want stores and offices nearer their houses.

I think that the trend of building housing in CBDs is really exactly what CBDs need to become vibrant. European centers didn't die as much as US ones did (although European cities do have some problems competing with suburbs) because people lived in them and there was plenty of nice housing in city centers. Not so in the US.

I'd also hope that US cities would build lots of low-rise mixed-use buildings around downtowns; I completely agree with you about high-rise buildings. Uptown Charlotte, for example, has tons of parking lots around a few streets of skyscrapers. It seems as if plans are in the works for most of those parking lots, but it seems to me to make sense to build European-style 5-10 story buildings containing housing/offices/stores in the same buildings on them. Gateway Village in Charlotte is a good example of what I think is good development.

[NYTransplant]

It's not just an opinion, Brad, it's a fact.

There is always plenty of free weekend parking (except for special events) at the Richardson Street Garage (just behind the Mast General Store and Piazza Bergamo).  Additionally, the Washington Street Parking Deck is free on evenings and weekends.  The Bowater Garage (on Falls Street) is now offering free evening and weekend parking.  And, rumor has it that SunTrust will be offering free evening and weekend parking on their lot as well.

Yea - there's a bit of a walk involved sometimes, but that's what's so great about downtown...if Downtown Greenville were a User Interface, Alan Cooper would be proud!  It's very user-friendly and walkable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. The only time I've even come close to not finding a parking space was last year at Fall for Greenville.

When I go out on a Saturday morning, I park on the second level of Bowater because there are no other cars on that level. No door dings B)

[greenvilleguy]

I personally don't have a problem parking downtown because I don't mind parking anywhere on mainstreet. Eventually I walk from North Main to the West End almost every time I go downtown just to see what has taken place. However the point I was making is that the parking situation is not acceptable for big name retailers like Borders, Barnes & Noble, etc. Someone mentioned earlier, "As long as you don't expect to visually see your final destination from your parking space, you can find a space." Someone else mentioned, " The Bowater Garage (on Falls Street) is now offering free evening and weekend parking. And, rumor has it that SunTrust will be offering free evening and weekend parking on their lot as well." While I don't have a problem with either of these personally, both are unacceptable if you expect to see names like Brooks Brothers, Crate & Barrel, etc. downtown. The fact is the downtown population cannot support these things on its own with out people coming in from the suburbs. If these people don't have abundant parking at ANY time of the day, it's not going to be worth the trip...

[btoy]

I personally don't have a problem parking downtown because I don't mind parking anywhere on mainstreet.  Eventually I walk from North Main to the West End almost every time I go downtown just to see what has taken place.  However the point I was making is that the parking situation is not acceptable for big name retailers like Borders, Barnes & Noble, etc.  Someone mentioned earlier, "As long as you don't expect to visually see your final destination from your parking space, you can find a space."  Someone else mentioned, " The Bowater Garage (on Falls Street) is now offering free evening and weekend parking. And, rumor has it that SunTrust will be offering free evening and weekend parking on their lot as well."  While I don't have a problem with either of these personally, both are unacceptable if you expect to see names like Brooks Brothers, Crate & Barrel, etc. downtown.  The fact is the downtown population cannot support these things on its own with out people coming in from the suburbs.  If these people don't have abundant parking at ANY time of the day, it's not going to be worth the trip...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Parking is alot harder to come buy in Chalreston and they have had no problem attracting the national retailors downtown.

[goodbye]

I understand your point Brad, but I believe that Charleston historically and currently has a much larger piece of the tourism industry pie. More people see it as a vacation destination and therefore visit for longer periods of time. That is a perfect setup for any national retailer. I think Greenville is making tremendous strides in the right direction, with more downtown hotels and plenty of locally and nationally owned restaurants and shops. We're getting closer to the day when a large retailer will have no problem staying busy everyday, but I can see the side that thinks there's not the available convenient and cheap parking necessary at all times of day and week -- YET. I personally think that a Borders type of store would have absolutely no problem surviving in our downtown as it is today. As for the desire for more convenient parking spaces, I don't think we need to worry about that because we're heading in the other direction, that being a destination for visitors and Upstate residents alike.

[goodbye]

And Don't forget about Poinsett Corners and The Transit Authority.  The Transit Authority is where I usually park.Also there is plent of parking at 2nd Pres. on River Street and the lot behind Greenville Summit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unless they've opened these to the public recently, they're for the church members and visitors ONLY (2nd Pres. and 1st Pres.), according to the posted signs I have seen there.

I didn't realize the Transit Authority lot was free.

[goodbye]

I agree.  The only time I've even come close to not finding a parking space was last year at Fall for Greenville.

When I go out on a Saturday morning, I park on the second level of Bowater because there are no other cars on that level.  No door dings B)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll let you all in on a secret. When you go to Fall for Greenville and parking is all taken or costs a small fortune, go to the new Library and park behind the old library (future ImagiNation Children's Museum) this puts you just over a block from Main Street, but it is free parking and last year took forever to come close to filling up. No matter where you decide to park for the festival, just plan on arriving early because the traffic is simply unbelievable.

[NYTransplant]

I personally don't have a problem parking downtown because I don't mind parking anywhere on mainstreet.  Eventually I walk from North Main to the West End almost every time I go downtown just to see what has taken place.  However the point I was making is that the parking situation is not acceptable for big name retailers like Borders, Barnes & Noble, etc.  Someone mentioned earlier, "As long as you don't expect to visually see your final destination from your parking space, you can find a space."  Someone else mentioned, " The Bowater Garage (on Falls Street) is now offering free evening and weekend parking. And, rumor has it that SunTrust will be offering free evening and weekend parking on their lot as well."  While I don't have a problem with either of these personally, both are unacceptable if you expect to see names like Brooks Brothers, Crate & Barrel, etc. downtown.  The fact is the downtown population cannot support these things on its own with out people coming in from the suburbs.  If these people don't have abundant parking at ANY time of the day, it's not going to be worth the trip...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think I mentioned before that there is a Borders in Saratoga Springs, NY. The parking situation there is very similar to Greenville, but your point of a vacation destination may be more applicable to SS than Greenville. Its no Charleston, but the summer months bring plenty of horse racing fans into town.

[NYTransplant]

I'll let you all in on a secret.  When you go to Fall for Greenville and parking is all taken or costs a small fortune, go to the new Library and park behind the old library (future ImagiNation Children's Museum)  this puts you just over a block from Main Street, but it is free parking and last year took forever to come close to filling up.  No matter where you decide to park for the festival, just plan on arriving early because the traffic is simply unbelievable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks for the tip Skyliner

[btoy]

Unless they've opened these to the public recently, they're for the church members and visitors ONLY (2nd Pres. and 1st Pres.), according to the posted signs I have seen there.

I didn't realize the Transit Authority lot was free.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When their are large parking lots that are completely empty and the churchs are not open for service and historically have not done anything about parking then I'll use them. I know the lot behind The Summit has signs about no parking but they never do anything about it. As for 2nd Pres. I have never noticed signs.

I'll let you all in on a secret.  When you go to Fall for Greenville and parking is all taken or costs a small fortune, go to the new Library and park behind the old library (future ImagiNation Children's Museum)  this puts you just over a block from Main Street, but it is free parking and last year took forever to come close to filling up.  No matter where you decide to park for the festival, just plan on arriving early because the traffic is simply unbelievable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Make sure it is the old lib. parking lot, new lib. lot is not free.

[Chickenwing]

Personally, I am lazy and like to park near my destination. Even though I can park for free at the Landmark building, I find it frustrating to walk 5 or 6 blocks.

Edited September 2, 2005 by Chickenwing

[goodbye]

When their are large parking lots that are completely empty and the churchs are not open for service and historically have not done anything about parking then I'll use them.  I know the lot behind The Summit has signs about no parking but they never do anything about it.  As for 2nd Pres.  I have never noticed signs. 

Make sure it is the old lib. parking lot, new lib. lot is not free.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, ALL of the parking at the new and old libraries is FREE after 5pm. You can park there anytime before 5, but if you leave after 5, you'll never be charged a penny. I've had to do this many times, unintentionally at first, but I try to plan it that way now when my schedule allows.

[goodbye]

Can anyone say, "Aggieville?" Downtown Greenville is awash in maroon shirts, hats, and hair ribbons today as obviously a large crowd of Texas A&M fans are taking the opportunity to visit the heart of the Upstate. I daresay Greenville will have hundreds of new fans after today.

[Greenville]

After this weekend, I hope they love Greenville and hate Clemson.

Go Tigers!

[gs3]

Can anyone say, "Aggieville?"  Downtown Greenville is awash in maroon shirts, hats, and hair ribbons today as obviously a large crowd of Texas A&M fans are taking the opportunity to visit the heart of the Upstate.  I daresay Greenville will have hundreds of new fans after today.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I chatted with a couple of them and they were amazed at GV. Their first time here and they had nothing but positive things to say. I think GV has made a few more fans! Downtown is stunning today, with the weather being so perfect.