Bull Street Common

[The_sandlapper]

I was wondering what had become of this last time I heard anything about it was a few months ago. So does anybody know what's cooking in the pot for Bull St.?

Agency asked to guide Bull Street project

City, state want nonprofit foundation to coordinate interests at State Hospital site

By JEFF WILKINSON

Staff Writer


Gov. Mark Sanford and Columbia Mayor Bob Coble have asked an influential charitable foundation to oversee development plans for the 178-acre State Hospital campus on Bull Street.

The unusual arrangement to tap the Central Carolina Community Foundation is needed to balance the states and the citys wishes, both sides say. The governors office wants a quick sale. City Council wants development compatible with surrounding neighborhoods and downtown businesses.

The State Hospital campus is the largest, most valuable parcel to become available in downtown Columbia in decades.

The tract is eight times larger than the old Central Corrections Institution property being developed on the Columbia Canal. It is the last large tract expected to become available in the urban city core.

Bull St. Project

[vicupstate]

The State Hospital campus is the largest, most valuable parcel to become available in downtown Columbia in decades.

The tract is eight times larger than the old Central Corrections Institution property being developed on the Columbia Canal. It is the last large tract expected to become available in the urban city core.

Bull St. Project

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hope that the city does a better job with this property than they have done with the CCI tract. The city took ownership of the CCI property in 1995. Here it is almost 2005, and it is still undeveloped. The city has put millions into the CCI property with nothing to show for it yet. The mayor and city council's incompetence is appalling.

[The_sandlapper]

I hope that the city does a better job with this property than they have done with the CCI tract.

Edited November 15, 2004 by The_sandlapper

[Spartan]

I'd like to see Elmwood continue on to Barnwell or Gregg St. It will most likely be a residential development- apartments, townhomes- with some basic commercial needs like a grocery store, pharmacy, and gas station.

I would prefer some small apartment low rises where there aren't historic structures to be refurbished. They will have to rework the inside of the thing though, because I can't imagine that the old "Lunatic Asylum" rooms will be very accomidating to modern life.

[ResearchMan]

As for the CanalSide verus DMH property the city got out of the CanalSide

development business because they felt they could not handle both projects.

It's interesting they abandoned one for another..after so much CanalSide time

invested. One of the long delays with CanalSide was the preservationist folks

(and relatives of long-time prisoners) wanted to save the prison industries building.

The city waited a long time for different developers to suggest how to use that

in a mix of residential housing. After a long time each developer had no way to

utilize the building and they tore it down.

I'm not sure Elmwood can flow on thru DMH. It's a convaluted path down

through there. Gregg has a nice entrance but I think a Barnwell extension

would go through a building. Several of the buildings are likely to be on a

historic register somewhere. I can ask my brother who has worked there for

maybe 20 years. Heck, my uncle died there in like 1965. He was a patient..attacked

by a pig as a child and he went insane. I recently found out he killed a fellow

patient while there. An old family secret.

[Spartan]

Certainly a bizzare secret.

I am all for historic preservation, but it was a prison. Its not like it was some medieval dungeon or something. I can't see how it would have bee beneficial to save it.

[ResearchMan]

It happened in the fifties and I just found out about it. My mom and her family never talked about him. Now that I know I cannot ask because the family survivors all have Alzheimers. When I asked my aunt's 84 year old husband he changes the subject.

The area at Calhoun and Bull has some historic buildings. Historical buildings are well defended in downtown Columbia. You cannot put storm windows on the front of a house downtown without approval of the historic preservation committee.

[Spartan]

I'd say that the historic structures are rightly protected in most cases. Columbia lost alot of history during the 1864 "urban renewal" by mr sherman. I remember a couple years ago when they made a big stink about USC wanting to tear down two old dilapidated houses in the Universtiy neighborhood on Pendleton. It seemed really stupid to me at the time, but I'd say in restrospect, their compromise to incoporate them into the USC Inn worked out well. Over all it seems like Columbia doesn't have an over abundance of historic buildings. I know alot of places (particularly my hometown of Spartanburg) are quick to tear down the old in favor of the new.

[ResearchMan]

I've not seen the plans to see how the old buildings fit in with the hotel plans. Black House (the one on the left) was a mess inside..I recall the architicture was unique and the USC Neighborhood Association (USCNA?) fought to keep it. I'm a member of the Assoc. and had been inside..and was ambivalent about saving it. The building on the right was not unique IMHO. The USCNA basically wants landlords in the area to clean up student-rented housing. No parking in the front yard, etc. They don't want the rental space to grow. Me..I'm grandfathered in and just get the newsletters.

This thread could lead into another thread or two..USC's relationship with the community and businesses downtown.

In the late 60's USC took over much land downtown. Some by imminent domain. Many locals resented them for it (I recall my dad ranting about it). USC now does development through the USC Development Foundation .. public-private organization to bypass some of the rules government agencies have regarding spending money. The hotel was a done deal until downtown hotel owners compained that USC would compete with them. Palms could not resolve it but Sorrenson-Coble did work it out. The hotel owners are still angry at Mike McGee for not hosting that stupid bowl at the Stadium on Christmas day. They still write letters to the editor five years later. He was right on..otherwise 500 USC employees would have to work for a football game on Christmas day for perhaps 20,000 attendees. That decision followed McGee turning away the Panthers training camp.

Many locals have the opinion USC doesn't care much about Columbia. The local businesses complain loudly about the lack of support from the University. In particular the hospitality businesses. High tech companies think USC is mostly a God-send.

[Spartan]

I think that the Columbia/USC relationship tend to lean more towards USC dominance. It could be argued that the city wouldn't be what it is with out USC, but it could also be argued that USC wouldnt be what it is with out Columbia. Its a very co-dependant relationship. Its funny that the local business would complain about USC seeng as how alot of businesses are supporeted by USC money (Not just 5points and the Vista either).

[ResearchMan]

I think USC should have more than 50 percent say in the relationship. City officials focus more on short term (and often political) issues. Unfortunately their vision is often how to survive the next election. They think short term (2-3 years). Today's State rips them on the failure-to-close projects problem. The university is always pursuing a vision of what public education should be five or ten years from now. Typically this vision is part of some multi-year master plan where they work towards that vision. They are limited in that vision by the legislature and the Commission on Higher Ed. Since every South Carolinian pays for higher ed I think the state should have more to say about USC's growth than the city. The city may have something to say about how it grows in the community but I think most business decisions are more appropriately set in the USC board room (or the governor's office). Not at Ciy Council.

As for the business community..it's always what have you done for me lately. But you are right..it's a symbiotic relationship and you can argue both ways.

[jinkin]

Perhaps part of the Bull St. campus could be used to house CMRTA's bus barn. There's plenty of space for it, I would imagine it might be a bit steep financially to set it up, but wouldn't that be a sweet piece of property for the bus system!

[ResearchMan]

They suffer NIMBY there too. Last year that neighborhood fought off the move of the Oliver Gospel mission. It's the same with the bus hub.It's an eyesoar area until DMH is redeveloped. To see the bus system visually I have city bus route maps up with my Food Panty Analysis page.

Where to locate the hub is very similar to the where to put the homeless services. Not many places are left downtown. I sent my maps on where to consolidate homeless shelter to the head of CMRTA. The neighbors will fight a homeless shelter more. There are only a few places to locate NIMBY type facilities downtown.

Edited November 22, 2004 by ResearchMan

[emerging.me]

This is an old thread dedicated to this project, but I thought I'd bump it up with the latest...

There's some cool news in The State today. DPZ, the planning firm that's working on the Bull Street site, is coming to Columbia on May 17th for a week-long public planning session. It's something they do for every project -- taking public input is a real core value. I've been fans of their work since I started studying New Urbanism a couple of years ago. These guys are truly world class and I think it'd be a really cool thing to go to -- it's at the convention center. We're going to be on vacation most of that time, but I'm thinking of going to the 23rd and 24th sessions when they're going to unveil the rough plan for the site. Pretty exciting.

Here are some clips from the story and a link...

Public has opportunities to give input on design

Neighbors, community groups, public officials, developers and anyone interested can weigh in next week with their vision for the redevelopment of the former State Hospital campus.

...

The Miami-based design firm Duany Plater-Zyberk & Co. is collecting the public comments as part of a weeklong design process for the site. The input sessions will be held at the Columbia Metropolitan Convention Center, May 17-24. All input sessions are open to the public.

Duany

[emerging.me]

And here's a link to the DPZ website, in case anyone wants to read more about them or see previous projects.

[The_sandlapper]

That is good news! I like the way there developments look! I'd be glad to see when they have some renderings!

[The_sandlapper]

Bull St. project future is shaping up. It is soon to be decided what to do with the largest piece of undeveloped land in the city. I would love to see a neo-urban neighborhood developed with affordable housing/ townhomes, parks, trails, and bike paths, and even a fresh fruit market or two. This could really be a development that could really set the city apart. What would you like to see?

Do not post copyrighted material

Bull St.

Edited May 19, 2005 by Spartan

[sonofaque86]

My mom works there...She was saying they were probably going to move them to Farrow Rd. or something like that

[emerging.me]

Bull St. project future is shaping up. It is soon to be decided what to do with the largest piece of undeveloped land in the city. I would love to see a neo-urban neighborhood developed with affordable housing/ townhomes, parks, trails, and bike paths, and even a fresh fruit market or two. This could really be a development that could really set the city apart. What would you like to see?

Bull St.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm anxious to go to one of the meetings at the Convention Center next week and see what DPZ is dreaming up for us! We're on vacation right now (yes, I'm on the computer... sad.) and we're staying near Seaside, Florida -- the DPZ community that was kind of a catalyst for the whole New Urbanism movement (you've probably seen it in The Truman Show). It's pretty sweet.

I would consider moving into the new Bull Street community, but my wife is convinced it's going to be haunted by ghosts of the mentally ill! eek. She's also poo-poo'ing my other urban living option -- CanalSide -- for similar reasons (former home of the electric chair, chief among them). But that's all fine and good... we've begun spearheading a modern multi-family residential project near Olympia. I'll hopefully have more on that soon!

[krazeeboi]

Wow, seems like things are heating up for Columbia all the way around....the boom is on the way!

[waccamatt]

Bull Street Design is Unveilled

The design for the Bull Street development has been released. There have been no figures set for the whole project, yet, but I'm thinking it will be in the $500 M to $1B range, what do y'all think?

Do not post copyrighted material.

Edited May 19, 2005 by Spartan

[Mr.Marc]

Bull Street Design is Unveilled

The design for the Bull Street development has been released. There have been no figures set for the whole project, yet, but I'm thinking it will be in the $500 M to $1B range, what do y'all think?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was hoping for a few mid or highrises. I guess my hopes are too high although they would have looked great coming into Columbia off I-126.

[waccamatt]

I was hoping for a few mid or highrises. I guess my hopes are too high although they would have looked great coming into Columbia off I-126.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wouldn't count out some midrises. They are discussing some high density development with lots of green space. I agree that some highrise apartments or condos would look great at that location and they would have a great view of downtown, too!

[Spartan]

I woud like to see some midrises as well. However, as long as there is some density, it will be acceptable.

The latest news is that the architect wants to transform Bull, Harden, Elmwood, and Colonial Drive into "people-friendly" avenues. He accurately says that these roads are unnecessarily wide and not friendly to foot traffic. Having a narrower road with curbside parking and (presumably) wider sidewalks would connect the neighborhood to the surrounding ones better.

He goes on to say that this adjustment won't affect traffic patterns. I don't see how making a road smaller can accomplish that, particulartly at such a key intersection as Elmwood and Bull, and in a city that is growing. I'm not a traffic engineer though.

Source Article

You guys need to break this habit of copying and pasting stuff form articles. I know its easy to do, but you need to paraphrase it instead. If it fits, a paragraph is ok to copy, but ideally you should paraphrase the important info. Stop copying & pasting things directly from newspapers. Eventually it will come to some sort of punishment. The higher-ups are less lenient than I.

[Spartan]

Here are the 3 concepts they released today. Photobucket it down, so I will move these to my server when it goes back up.

A rectangular grid.

A curved grid with a diagonal boulevard.

This plan features "vistas" which are some sort of noteworyth structure at the end of the street. The article uses the State House when coming down Main St or Longstreet Theatre on Sumter St. as examples.

There is not too much left to say about them, but you can read it here

I like the rectangular grid of the first and the diagonal boulevard of the second. They should merge the two. B)