Bull Street Common

[growingup15]

A publicly funded baseball stadium has been a success in Fort Wayne, Ind., because it triggered urban renewal in a once-decaying area, the Midwest city’s redevelopment director said.

“I’m not aware of a baseball stadium that pays for itself,” Fort Wayne Redevelopment Commission director Greg Leatherman said last week, “but we’re getting exactly what we wanted.”

He was referring to his city’s interest in using the ballpark as a catalyst to revitalize what was a blighted part of town almost five years ago when Parkview Field held its first minor league game.

http://www.thestate.com/2014/01/18/3215370/is-fort-waynes-baseball-park-a.html

[carolinagarnet]

^ That's a good point. It's tough to find a case study where a baseball stadium has catalyzed development in an area on its own because a stadium is usually coupled with other development efforts. In this case, you have to question whether Columbia Commons would be successful without a minor league stadium. If so, you then try to figure out whether the stadium provides a bump and try to quantify the bump. There will be a lot of new housing and office space in the area just within Columbia Commons, but if the rough neighboring areas draw interest from developers, then that will probably signal that the stadium is having a wider impact.

[growingup15]

^ That's a good point. It's tough to find a case study where a baseball stadium has catalyzed development in an area on its own because a stadium is usually coupled with other development efforts. In this case, you have to question whether Columbia Commons would be successful without a minor league stadium. If so, you then try to figure out whether the stadium provides a bump and try to quantify the bump. There will be a lot of new housing and office space in the area just within Columbia Commons, but if the rough neighboring areas draw interest from developers, then that will probably signal that the stadium is having a wider impact.

in my opinion. I call it the Walmart effect. its when something big like just example a walmart springs up in a area it basically creates a whole town around that area. i look at this stadium as a massive attraction for business. that whole build it and they will come, might really apply here.

 

i can imagine if they build this within the year the next 5 years wil be booming for this area.

[CorgiMatt]

in my opinion. I call it the Walmart effect. its when something big like just example a walmart springs up in a area it basically creates a whole town around that area. i look at this stadium as a massive attraction for business. that whole build it and they will come, might really apply here.

 

i can imagine if they build this within the year the next 5 years wil be booming for this area.

Actually Walmart has always followed cul-de-sacs, not the other way around.

[Spes]

in my opinion. I call it the Walmart effect. its when something big like just example a walmart springs up in a area it basically creates a whole town around that area. i look at this stadium as a massive attraction for business. that whole build it and they will come, might really apply here.

 

That would be really nice if it happened, except most economists have shown that it's seldom the case.

 

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2013/11/stadium-financing

http://www.psmag.com/navigation/business-economics/america-has-a-stadium-problem-62665/

http://books.google.com/books?id=PGRkblShhU8C&pg=PA214&lpg=PA214&dq=minor+league+baseball+public+fund+return+economics&source=bl&ots=EBfBrgrh3P&sig=z8COtuFJMbc0BP8eblsqH34M_BU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=gHjeUoONBaPNsQS094LICQ&ved=0CDIQ6AEwATgK#v=onepage&q=minor%20league%20baseball%20public%20fund%20return%20economics&f=false

[krazeeboi]

On a 4-3 vote, City Council gave the first of two required approvals to a deal with Atlanta-based Hardball Capital to bring a minor-league baseball team to the Capital City to play in a projected $35 million, year-round ballpark.

 

The contract calls for Hardball to put $6 million toward construction costs as well as to sweeten the deal for the city by pledging to assume greater financial risk should the stadium fail to attract the promised number of visitors or to become the catalyst for construction in the surrounding Bull Street neighborhood.

[krazeeboi]

Hughes released details that are not widely known among Columbia residents hungry to know every detail of his plans for the entire 165-acre tract.

 

They include:

 

•  The taxable projects would wrap around the stadium’s 16 luxury suites and extend along the first and third baselines and into the outfield.

 

•  Each floor would have 15,000 to 20,000 square feet of space with either access to the concourse or clear views of the field. Offices or hotel rooms beginning on the third floor would have views into the stadium as well as into the surrounding new neighborhood.

 

If each floor is built at the high end of the square-footage range, the taxable property could be as much as 100,000, according to Hughes’ estimates.

 

•  The height of the project would not block views of the historic Babcock Building’s red cupola. “It’s not going to go above the dome,” Hughes said. A client is interested in converting the nearby Babcock Building into a 200-room hotel, he said.

 

•  Construction of the taxable property would begin at the same time as the stadium but could be completed before baseball would be played there.

 

Hughes is prepared to hire a designer for the structure, in concert with the stadium operator, immediately after a final vote by council.

 

Hughes said interest in adding non-baseball amenities to the ballpark is clear, though he released no names of potential clients.

[krazeeboi]

An editorial from The State decrying the city's role in bringing baseball to the Bull Street campus. Excerpts:

 

If the Columbia City Council doesn’t make the terms of an arrangement to finance a minor league baseball park much more favorable to the public than the one it tentatively approved last month, it should reject final approval Tuesday...

 

Local governments should not be the major backers of stadiums for professional teams; minor league parks require a particularly large investment, with minimal return. It would be acceptable for Columbia to provide a modest, limited contribution toward a new ballpark, but that’s not where things are headed...

 

While City Council committed more than we’d like for infrastructure at Bull Street, it was a defensible, bold step aimed at boosting the local economy. But this obsession with being the major benefactor for a minor league baseball team is a far-too-risky detour.

[krazeeboi]

Columbia City Council decided Tuesday night to authorize a management contract for a city-owned baseball stadium in the yet-to-be-built Bull Street neighborhood downtown.

 

The 4-3 vote to hire Hardball Capital of Atlanta to bring a minor-league team to Columbia and to operate the stadium is the first step toward spending $29 million in public money for a $35 million year-round facility.

 

An initial vote on spending the money is likely sometime in May, the city’s chief financial officer said after the 10:10 p.m. vote by the same council members who supported the Hardball contract in the preliminary vote March 5.

[growingup15]

 

Columbia City Council decided Tuesday night to authorize a management contract for a city-owned baseball stadium in the yet-to-be-built Bull Street neighborhood downtown.

 

The 4-3 vote to hire Hardball Capital of Atlanta to bring a minor-league team to Columbia and to operate the stadium is the first step toward spending $29 million in public money for a $35 million year-round facility.

 

An initial vote on spending the money is likely sometime in May, the city’s chief financial officer said after the 10:10 p.m. vote by the same council members who supported the Hardball contract in the preliminary vote March 5.

 

Finally This excited me to see progress in the city to get things done.

[CorgiMatt]

When the major corporations in the area don't seem to give a rip about downtown, sometimes the people have to step up to the plate.  Pardon the pun.  The best thing is the stadium will be a venue for year-round entertainment.

[carolinagarnet]

I can't help but feel that this is a bad idea. Columbia Commons is not really connected to its surrounding neighborhoods or to Main Street, so I feel like development might be limited to the campus itself. Columbia does not seem big enough city to sustain gentrification in multiple areas, which makes me wonder if development in Innovista and on Main Street will suffer as a result of both the location and the amount of public money flowing into the Commons. Charlotte's new minor league stadium is a huge success by all indications, but Charlotte is much larger and more centralized than Columbia. I'm afraid this will be a huge drain on the city.

[Spes]

When the major corporations in the area don't seem to give a rip about downtown, sometimes the people have to step up to the plate.  Pardon the pun.  The best thing is the stadium will be a venue for year-round entertainment.

 

Maybe we should ask why the companies in the region don't care about downtown before we jump to any conclusions

[CorgiMatt]

Maybe we should ask why the companies in the region don't care about downtown before we jump to any conclusions

Ask whom?  You got any idea why?

[mr. chips]

 The best thing is the stadium will be a venue for year-round entertainment.

See this article in today's NY Times about baseball stadiums:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/10/sports/baseball/baseball-anyone-anyone.html?hp&_r=0

 

"Attendance at ballparks can be pretty spotty this time of year, when it’s often cold and rainy in many big-league towns. But the first week and a half of the 2014 major league season has produced some especially bleak scenes…"

[CorgiMatt]

See this article in today's NY Times about baseball stadiums:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/10/sports/baseball/baseball-anyone-anyone.html?hp&_r=0

 

"Attendance at ballparks can be pretty spotty this time of year, when it’s often cold and rainy in many big-league towns. But the first week and a half of the 2014 major league season has produced some especially bleak scenes…"

New Yorkers who could afford tickets to the majors are in Paris and London on the weekends and they're workaholics during the week.  People from other cities with major-league ball who could afford tickets are in New York on the Weekends... and on down the line.  Columbia Common's stadium will be about year-round entertainment with minor-league ball acting only as the catalyst for having the stadium in the first place.  The stadium itself will draw people at first and they will feel like they've been out for a social event and will want to come back for more.  

 

http://www.thestate.com/2014/04/10/3378568/morris-minor-league-stadium-will.html?sp=/99/181/

[carolinagarnet]

I'm all about finding ways to keep recent grads in Columbia. I don't think Columbia can stem the flow of young professionals to Atlanta and Charlotte, if only because Columbia is too small to offer the career mobility that bigger cities support. It can probably limit the flow to Charleston and Greenville, but there are much larger issues than a perceived lack of things to do. Crime is a huge deterrent to living in many places downtown and that issue won't go away until Columbia finds a way to fix its government structure. Closer collaboration between city and county or a strong mayor format would probably help solve the sheriff issue, but both prospects seem unlikely with the current makeup of City Council.

 

The biggest issue in my view is that there is a lack of connectedness between 5 Points, the Vista, Main Street, and Columbia Commons. The neighborhoods are so far apart that momentum can not really build upon itself in the same way as it has in other cities. Building out Gervais would connect 5 Points, the Vista, and Main Street, but neglect Columbia Commons. Focusing on Main Street would help bridge the Vista and Columbia Commons, though you would still have the 4 blocks of Elmwood separating Main and Bull Streets (assuming a linear path). Don't get me wrong, I'm all about developing Columbia Commons. To place a catalyst for development in a neighborhood that is too far to walk (especially given the humidity in the summer) encourages people to drive in and out rather than walk around some of the other budding areas of town like Main Street and the Vista. I just don't think it will have the impact people are projecting.

Edited April 10, 2014 by carolinagarnet

[CorgiMatt]

I'm all about finding ways to keep recent grads in Columbia. I don't think Columbia can stem the flow of young professionals to Atlanta and Charlotte, if only because Columbia is too small to offer the career mobility that bigger cities support. It can probably limit the flow to Charleston and Greenville, but there are much larger issues than a perceived lack of things to do. Crime is a huge deterrent to living in many places downtown and that issue won't go away until Columbia finds a way to fix its government structure. Closer collaboration between city and county or a strong mayor format would probably help solve the sheriff issue, but both prospects seem unlikely with the current makeup of City Council.

 

The biggest issue in my view is that there is a lack of connectedness between 5 Points, the Vista, Main Street, and Columbia Commons. The neighborhoods are so far apart that momentum can not really build upon itself in the same way as it has in other cities. Building out Gervais would connect 5 Points, the Vista, and Main Street, but neglect Columbia Commons. Focusing on Main Street would help bridge the Vista and Columbia Commons, though you would still have the 4 blocks of Elmwood separating Main and Bull Streets (assuming a linear path). Don't get me wrong, I'm all about developing Columbia Commons. To place a catalyst for development in a neighborhood that is too far to walk (especially given the humidity in the summer) encourages people to drive in and out rather than walk around some of the other budding areas of town like Main Street and the Vista. I just don't think it will have the impact people are projecting.

I don't buy the crime argument.  Not to call out any other city, but I've seen recent headlines about robberies in the nicest areas of the Charleston peninsula. That's not a statement about Charleston.  That's a statement about crime.  It is everywhere.  Columbia is no different.  Crime overall has fallen considerably in the city in the last couple years despite the headline-grabbing incidents, and as I've said many times, the city never even is on the yearly list of the FBI's 100 most dangerous cities per capita.  

 

No area that you mention is going to stop growing.  Each is a seed that will spread outward.  Downtown Columbia is growing by a different pattern, but there's no stopping the growth.  As I've said many times, when the dots start connecting and better yet when the edges of all the districts are contiguous to the central part of downtown through development of the corridors and the 'off-the-corridors' spots, look out - it's going to be a big downtown.  People accept the humidity as part of the package, like all southeastern cities. 

Edited April 10, 2014 by CorgiMatt

[Spes]

While that's fun to believe, historically cities have been in a period of dilatory expansion and contraction. As the years go by and land's use changes they get built out, yes, but from at least the start of industrial urban life until today there have been net migrations both into and out of cities, both independently and as a whole. Now I know this is an exercise in futility because some people (cough cough) refuse to grapple with the harsh daylight of reason, but a lot of the concern in urban development has to be whether the city will be cashing in on an urban influx before net migration favors periphery again. Columbia is a perfect case study of that, and I think what makes it especially difficult to develop is the reliance it's had on its suburbs for residential and commercial growth. I certainly hope we can buck that trend, but it's something to be concerned about and not something that gets brought up a lot in the rah-rah environment of development discussions.

 

Not to mention the fact that areas do in fact stop growing, start shrinking, and all grow at different paces that affect the place and the things around it. Matt mentioned Downtown Charleston so let's talk about Downtown Charleston. The area around and to the East of Joe Riley Park is, for all intents and purposes, a rough part of town, but Charleston has been seeing a dramatic period of growth in other areas that were previously depressed like Upper King, Coming north of the Crosstown, and to less of an extent northern stretches of East Bay. What that should show people is that growth doesn't just happen on its own like the Blob, but it depends what is driving the growth and what the area contributes to the growth. Further, the way that areas grow impact others: if King and Market Streets don't get the face-lifts that they got in Riley's earlier years, Upper King wouldn't be where it is today. If Greenville doesn't revamp Falls Park so dramatically, Main Street probably doesn't see its present level of success and the West End isn't such an attractive development option. It's just plain naive to say that A has grown and B has grown so C will necessarily grow.

[carolinagarnet]

I don't buy the crime argument.  Not to call out any other city, but I've seen recent headlines about robberies in the nicest areas of the Charleston peninsula. That's not a statement about Charleston.  That's a statement about crime.  It is everywhere.  Columbia is no different.  Crime overall has fallen considerably in the city in the last couple years despite the headline-grabbing incidents, and as I've said many times, the city never even is on the yearly list of the FBI's 100 most dangerous cities per capita.  

 

The nature of the crime is the biggest concern. Property crime is to be expected in wealthier areas. If Columbia just had a problem with robberies in nicer areas of downtown, I wouldn't be all that concerned about the impact on development. Violent crime, on the other hand, is a huge concern, particularly when it involves very high profile gang turf wars. These incidents have shifted from the Two Notch Road to Five Points in recent years. Charleston's gang issues seem to be concentrated in North Charleston, out of the main developing area on the peninsula. 

 

No area that you mention is going to stop growing.  Each is a seed that will spread outward.  Downtown Columbia is growing by a different pattern, but there's no stopping the growth.  As I've said many times, when the dots start connecting and better yet when the edges of all the districts are contiguous to the central part of downtown through development of the corridors and the 'off-the-corridors' spots, look out - it's going to be a big downtown.  People accept the humidity as part of the package, like all southeastern cities. 

 

Think about the actual street level. Would you feel comfortable walking from the Vista to Five Points along Gervais at night? How about USC to Columbia Commons along Bull Street? I don't care how much the individual neighborhoods develop, they will continue to be islands until the city links them by focusing on the streets that connect them. When we look at the growth pattern in Greenville, we're talking about linear development along a 1 mile stretch of Main Street. Fluor Field and Falls River Park are less than half a mile from each other and both on Main Street. Developers had a clear idea of where to place new apartments, stores, and offices. Charleston may be a better comparison due to its street grid, but even then there's a very clear development path up the peninsula.

 

Columbia's large gridwork makes it somewhat difficult to anticipate where development should and will occur. Columbia's strategy appears to be linking the Vista to Columbia Commons along Main Street, which I think is the great path. The problem is we're talking about 1.7 miles (from Jillian's to the Babcock Building). The student population is shifting west to Huger Street, even further from Columbia Commons. Obviously the City can't force USC to encourage student residential developers to build north of campus, but it makes for a series of disconnected growth areas. While I believe Main Street will fill in over time, I can't imagine that it will happen very quickly.

Edited April 10, 2014 by carolinagarnet

[CorgiMatt]

The nature of the crime is the biggest concern. Property crime is to be expected in wealthier areas. If Columbia just had a problem with robberies in nicer areas of downtown, I wouldn't be all that concerned about the impact on development. Violent crime, on the other hand, is a huge concern, particularly when it involves very high profile gang turf wars. These incidents have shifted from the Two Notch Road to Five Points in recent years. Charleston's gang issues seem to be concentrated in North Charleston, out of the main developing area on the peninsula. 

 

 

Think about the actual street level. Would you feel comfortable walking from the Vista to Five Points along Gervais at night? How about USC to Columbia Commons along Bull Street? I don't care how much the individual neighborhoods develop, they will continue to be islands until the city links them by focusing on the streets that connect them. When we look at the growth pattern in Greenville, we're talking about linear development along a 1 mile stretch of Main Street. Fluor Field and Falls River Park are less than half a mile from each other and both on Main Street. Developers had a clear idea of where to place new apartments, stores, and offices. Charleston may be a better comparison due to its street grid, but even then there's a very clear development path up the peninsula.

 

Columbia's large gridwork makes it somewhat difficult to anticipate where development should and will occur. Columbia's strategy appears to be linking the Vista to Columbia Commons along Main Street, which I think is the great path. The problem is we're talking about 1.7 miles (from Jillian's to the Babcock Building). The student population is shifting west to Huger Street, even further from Columbia Commons. Obviously the City can't force USC to encourage student residential developers to build north of campus, but it makes for a series of disconnected growth areas. While I believe Main Street will fill in over time, I can't imagine that it will happen very quickly.

The fact is there is nowhere to run and nowhere to hide to be 100% safe from all possibility of being a victim of violent crime or any other type of crime if you want to be in a city and enjoy what it has to offer.  Heck, there's nowhere to run and nowhere to hide from violent or any other type of crime anywhere.  Just read the paper or watch the news.  When it happens in the thick of where hundreds of people gather it somehow becomes a mark against the place's reputation, while the small towns and places in the country where people are shooting and stabbing each other are still getting a free ride from the media in terms of their images or reputations.  Those places are still portrayed as the place to be to get away from the evils of the big city, when in fact they are showing up in news reports for the same evils just as often.  And this just in: Columbia's new police chief seems like the right man at the right time.  He exudes confidence and intelligence.  He says he will make Columbia proud, and I believe him. 

 

In terms of the connectivity of downtown Columbia, you're speaking in the present tense.  The future is where it's at as far as connecting the growing areas of downtown, if they don't develop to the point that they connect contiguously anyway, which they will over time.  I'm not concerned with where most of the student population is going to be living as far as having enough patrons for Columbia Common or for anywhere else in the downtown area.  People in general will fill up the grid, students and non-students alike.  Three thousand housing units at Columbia Common aren't going to be mainly for students, but students will have their opportunities to live there if they choose to, I'm sure.  

 

Would I currently feel comfortable using Gervais on foot to get from the Vista to Five Points?  It's not that I would feel uncomfortable, as I see people of all stripes walking and jogging along there, but psychologically there's nothing to make me want to do that and besides - there's currently no reason to.  But when the new law school is built, when the children's law school occupies the old Dunbar Funeral Home, when Greyhound has moved and that huge parcel has popped into something major, and when the Clarion Townhouse Hotel... (Did I hear they plan a major expansion?)..., etc., and so on and so forth...  

 

I'm not talking about tomorrow.  I'm talking about organic growth that will happen over time.  It's happening already and will get exponential. Columbia Common will help facilitate that, but it would happen even without Columbia Common, and when it did we would wake up one day and ask why we let the opportunity with the Bull Street property fall through and the historic buildings rot and crumble.  And let's not forget that the public transit system has every intention of using penny sales tax revenue to link up the giant grid via shuttle buses.  Columbia's moving to a bigger league.    

Edited April 11, 2014 by CorgiMatt

[krazeeboi]

For now, I see Five Points remaining separate from the rest of the core just due to distance. I think, outside of improvements to Gervais east of Assembly, connecting it to the rest of the core should be a little lower on the priority list. And as far as crime in Five Points go, it's largely limited to that area and no new residential development is happening there so that's kind of a non-issue at this point.

 

I completely understand the issue about disparate nodes in downtown and it's a legitimate concern. Would it have been better for the city to discourage minor league baseball from coming to the Bull Street campus altogether due to concerns that resulting development would detract from potential new development elsewhere downtown? Isn't that an issue in developing the campus whether baseball comes or not? Should the city have just sat tight and thought about selling the campus to a developer once enough development radiates out from Main and the Vista? 

 

I think by focusing on key corridors and intersections, the city can encourage connectivity between these disparate areas but of course, they will only fill out over time. For now, the city should concern itself with the low-hanging fruit, which is connecting Main and the Vista which is underway via the overhaul of Assembly and recent improvements to Gervais. A circulator would also be a great idea. I know in Chattanooga, a city known for its successful riverfront revitalization, the CBD is a bit removed from the riverfront (as well as the warehouse district) but a free bus is provided at the convention center Marriott to the riverfront for guests to use. Something similar should be explored by Columbia; in the long run a downtown streetcar route would be great as well, similar to the one under construction in Atlanta which will be 2.7 miles long and connect the MLK Historic District with Centennial Olympic Park. Or for an example from a peer city, in Little Rock, their 3.4 mile vintage streetcar line connects downtown attractions such as the convention center and Clinton Presidential Library.

[carolinagarnet]

The Streetcar is a great idea down the road. Since lines are pretty expensive, Columbia might require more density in the core to compete for a federal Tiger grant. Connecting the disparate developments is key to giving people a sense of connectivity within the city.

 

The problem with the baseball stadium is that it draws from hospitality funds that currently fund museums and other attractions and could potentially be used for other improvements downtown. $29M is a big commitment, though honestly I expect the price to go higher. Charlotte just built a stadium in Third Ward and there was a development boom. It is impossible to say whether this resulted from the stadium or the adjacent Romare Bearden Park (likely both). Of course Charlotte is the fastest growing city in the country and there is huge pent up demand for apartments in Uptown. Maybe the stadium is necessary to develop Columbia Commons and maybe the underdeveloped stretch of North Main will fill the gap between the Nick area and Elmwood. All I'm saying is that building a spec stadium so far away from the edge of development is a huge bet.

[SCastroman]

NPR did a radio story on the archaeology project underway at the Bull Street project

 

http://www.npr.org/2014/04/23/305851397/race-to-unearth-civil-war-era-artifacts-before-developer-digs-in

[carolinagarnet]

Bolton wrote an interesting article about the investment in Bull Street and the tax incentives to student housing developers in Innovista. While the article is mostly critical, he highlights Benjamin's motivation: to build the tax base to compensate for all of the non-taxable government, church, and USC property. That point is often lost in the larger discussion about funding these projects. As much as people have complained about the penny sales tax, it really is needed to fund a lot of the projects that aim to draw people into city limits.

 

http://www.thestate.com/2014/04/23/3404916/bolton-is-columbia-paying-too.html?sp=/99/168/