Bull Street Common

[growingup15]

1 hour ago, mpretori said:

With Charlotte's economy crumbling, Columbia should capture all the opportunities it can get. I mean, this could very well be a future southpark, it looks like it from the renderings. 

What you mean Charlotte Economy Crumbling? You mean fron that HB2 bill in NC right now?

[lucjanrc]

13 hours ago, carolinagarnet said:

You mean city-data? Or is there another?

yeah city-data

2 hours ago, mpretori said:

With Charlotte's economy crumbling, Columbia should capture all the opportunities it can get. I mean, this could very well be a future southpark, it looks like it from the renderings. 

I thought Charlotte was doing better than Atlanta in some aspects?

[HopHead]

9 minutes ago, lucjanrc said:

yeah city-data

I thought Charlotte was doing better than Atlanta in some aspects?

Charlotte's economy is crumbling would be news to a lot of people...

[urbanlover568]

58 minutes ago, growingup15 said:

What you mean Charlotte Economy Crumbling? You mean fron that HB2 bill in NC right now?

Yes, new growth is down by 50+ percent. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article79503287.html#storylink=cpy

[lucjanrc]

2 minutes ago, mpretori said:

Yes, new growth is down by 50+ percent. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article79503287.html#storylink=cpy

I heard about this but I had no clue it had made such an impact, wow

[growingup15]

3 hours ago, lucjanrc said:

yeah city-data

I thought Charlotte was doing better than Atlanta in some aspects?

Thats what i thought

2 hours ago, mpretori said:

Yes, new growth is down by 50+ percent. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article79503287.html#storylink=cpy

Wow. Well That just shows you.companies Don't take it to kindly to hate. Like When the Battle flag wax flying on the statehouse here. Soon as they Took it down like over night businesses left and right started flooding into columbia and SC

[lucjanrc]

Charlotte is pushing the "Charlotte's got a lot" advertisement more than ever right now. We should release our own ad saying "Columbia happily welcomes all of Charlotte's jobs and businesses"

[HopHead]

5 hours ago, mpretori said:

Yes, new growth is down by 50+ percent. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article79503287.html#storylink=cpy

"The report also says inquiries about new economic development are down 58 percent since lawmakers passed the bill in March, and client visits down 69 percent from last year." ...  Your statement of "new growth is down by 50+ percent" is a rather misleading. The report referred to inquiries, not actual hard "growth". While HB2 has impacted the entire state of NC, it hasn't turned the economy into another Detroit. Though, the longer the HB2 cloud hangs over the longer the negative effects will take to recover from. 

[growingup15]

1 hour ago, lucjanrc said:

Charlotte is pushing the "Charlotte's got a lot" advertisement more than ever right now. We should release our own ad saying "Columbia happily welcomes all of Charlotte's jobs and businesses"

We are already  gaining a lot of their business now. I think the state needs to jump on it and start working on getting t those businesses that left or leaving NC.

 

Bring them to columbia

[urbanlover568]

 

16 hours ago, growingup15 said:

We are already  gaining a lot of their business now. I think the state needs to jump on it and start working on getting t those businesses that left or leaving NC.

 

Bring them to columbia

Yup, I mean Columbia could stand a fair chance to grow exponentially. Innovista needs to kick it into high gear asap. 

[lucjanrc]

I think the Bull Street Common stands a bigger chance of getting business than Innovista in the short term, office buildings are already going up in the Commons (the first and second base buildings). Innovista is trending more towards student housing right now.

[urbanlover568]

35 minutes ago, lucjanrc said:

I think the Bull Street Common stands a bigger chance of getting business than Innovista in the short term, office buildings are already going up in the Commons (the first and second base buildings). Innovista is trending more towards student housing right now.

Good point. Know this is OT, but i wish the core of the city would reinvent itself like the vista and bull street neighborhood did.

[growingup15]

38 minutes ago, mpretori said:

Good point. Know this is OT, but i wish the core of the city would reinvent itself like the vista and bull street neighborhood did.

Well if the city stop shunning away dense highrise development or have 3 people complain about what they dont want then downtown the center city could get it together. Example:

 

The possible Highrise Apartment on Lady and Park. The land across the street which is for sale could be another huge mixed used high rise office or apartment.

Possible high rise on Park and Washington next to the library. 

 

talked Matt Kendall 3 days ago about the huge empty parking lot across the street from the library and we was talking about an idea that we talked about on here years ago about turning that land into a Mixed Used hub. Something similar to Charlottes Epicentre with a high rise condo hotel or apartment attached to it. 

 

If Columbia focus on density in that matter. Then it can grow just like vista and bull street.

 

Im tired of hearing ( we don't want to be like Charlotte) I always ask what you dont want? Growth?

[carolinagarnet]

19 hours ago, HopHead said:

"The report also says inquiries about new economic development are down 58 percent since lawmakers passed the bill in March, and client visits down 69 percent from last year." ...  Your statement of "new growth is down by 50+ percent" is a rather misleading. The report referred to inquiries, not actual hard "growth". While HB2 has impacted the entire state of NC, it hasn't turned the economy into another Detroit. Though, the longer the HB2 cloud hangs over the longer the negative effects will take to recover from. 

Yeah not to pile on, but Charlotte is still one of the fastest growing metros in the country if not the fastest. It stands to lose momentum, but all of the announcements thus far have been relatively low impact (concerts, mid size new offices). The banks continue to grow organically, Metlife is taking another full floor in their office in Ballantyne, and companies are still moving to the region. Columbia may get a little spillover, but the area that stands to really benefit is Rock Hill/Fort Mill. Moving there allows companies to access Charlotte talent, get huge tax incentives from the state, and avoid the bad PR.

1 hour ago, lucjanrc said:

I think the Bull Street Common stands a bigger chance of getting business than Innovista in the short term, office buildings are already going up in the Commons (the first and second base buildings). Innovista is trending more towards student housing right now.

Getting back to Bull Street, I agree that companies will go with the shovel ready project first. At this point it will probably consist of relocations within the area, for instance a company moving its office from St. Andrews to Bull Street. The best candidates seem to be FIRE (finance, insurance, real estate) and law firms. I'm a little surprised that more companies have not announced moves, but there is not as much pent up demand here. USC will end up driving most of the growth in Innovista over time. The university is getting very creative with corporate partnerships (see: IBM/Fluor, 650 Lincoln). This is a lot slower of a process. I haven't thought about it much, but there may be some opportunities for them to outsource key functions like they did with IT. This kind of organic growth will take years to materialize since the state's economic development efforts focus on manufacturing in rural areas of the Lowcountry and the Upstate. In many ways Columbia is on its own.

Edited May 28, 2016 by carolinagarnet

[lucjanrc]

There's still a lot of work to be done with connecting the Vista to the CBD across Assembly Street. The sudden expansion of USC/Innovista across Assembly triggered the streetscaping of Assembly between Pendleton & Blossom and now Greene street towards the river, making both streets much more pedestrian friendly. The same needs to happen now on Assembly between Senate & Washington and the key will be as growingup15 noted, new construction on parking lots and parking garages between those streets.

[lucjanrc]

32 minutes ago, carolinagarnet said:

Yeah not to pile on, but Charlotte is still one of the fastest growing metros in the country if not the fastest. It stands to lose momentum, but all of the announcements thus far have been relatively low impact (concerts, mid size new offices). The banks continue to grow organically, Metlife is taking another full floor in their office in Ballantyne, and companies are still moving to the region. Columbia may get a little spillover, but the area that stands to really benefit is Rock Hill/Fort Mill. Moving there allows companies to access Charlotte talent, get huge tax incentives from the state, and avoid the bad PR.

Getting back to Bull Street, I agree that companies will go with the shovel ready project first. At this point it will probably consist of relocations within the area, for instance a company moving its office from St. Andrews to Bull Street. The best candidates seem to be FIRE (finance, insurance, real estate) and law firms. I'm a little surprised that more companies have not announced moves, but there is not as much pent up demand here. USC will end up driving most of the growth in Innovista over time. The university is getting very creative with corporate partnerships (see: IBM/Fluor, 650 Lincoln). This is a lot slower of a process. I haven't thought about it much, but there may be some opportunities for them to outsource key functions like they did with IT. This kind of organic growth will take years to materialize since the state's economic development efforts focus on manufacturing in rural areas of the Lowcountry and the Upstate. In many ways Columbia is on its own.

I just hope they aren't looking for as many relocations as they are new business because relocations can hurt other areas such as Main Street that have taken years to revitalize. Didn't the law firm that moved into the First Base building relocate from Main Street? Also, where are people parking for the baseball games and when is the first parking garage going to be built?

Edited May 28, 2016 by lucjanrc

[urbanlover568]

1 hour ago, growingup15 said:

Well if the city stop shunning away dense highrise development or have 3 people complain about what they dont want then downtown the center city could get it together. Example:

 

The possible Highrise Apartment on Lady and Park. The land across the street which is for sale could be another huge mixed used high rise office or apartment.

Possible high rise on Park and Washington next to the library. 

 

talked Matt Kendall 3 days ago about the huge empty parking lot across the street from the library and we was talking about an idea that we talked about on here years ago about turning that land into a Mixed Used hub. Something similar to Charlottes Epicentre with a high rise condo hotel or apartment attached to it. 

 

If Columbia focus on density in that matter. Then it can grow just like vista and bull street.

 

Im tired of hearing ( we don't want to be like Charlotte) I always ask what you dont want? Growth?

Lots of potential for Columbia obviously. Columbia, really has got to put the foot to the pedal in recruiting businesses. I think only 1 tenant has moved into the first base building in Bull Street, 3 others have been on the market for a year now. I think once Columbia get's phase 2 under construction and tenants announced, the city will/should focus on the CBD. I think first, the city should build something similar to epicenter and create a entertainment hub, thats more dense than the vista. Then after, focus on creating a road system around the city more efficient and something like a beltway. Once, the city has the infrastructure(ie roads, internet, and city utilities) and entertainment, businesses should rapidly flock to the city. 

 

Also, one thing Columbia has, that Charlotte does not. 

Hint, Grand Rapids is a very good example of it. 

 

Also, do you know about specifics on the boded? 

Edited May 28, 2016 by mpretori

[urbanlover568]

1 hour ago, carolinagarnet said:

Yeah not to pile on, but Charlotte is still one of the fastest growing metros in the country if not the fastest. It stands to lose momentum, but all of the announcements thus far have been relatively low impact (concerts, mid size new offices). The banks continue to grow organically, Metlife is taking another full floor in their office in Ballantyne, and companies are still moving to the region. Columbia may get a little spillover, but the area that stands to really benefit is Rock Hill/Fort Mill. Moving there allows companies to access Charlotte talent, get huge tax incentives from the state, and avoid the bad PR.

“We have said all along that the economic loss has been real, the risk of further loss is great, and this is potentially catastrophic to our economy,” Morgan said.

When the Chamber throws out the C word you know troubling times are coming. Not to say, Charlotte wont recover, but it's going to take years to decades. Metlife is only 1 company, and a company that's already established in Charlotte. A office tower under construction, just lost a anchor. Lots of losses being incurred on developers right now with new businesses drastically being reduced. And i digress on the rock hill/fort mill notion. Most residents there use NC as entertainment and dramatic reduction of new businesses in Charlotte reduces addition of those services dramatically, so thats where Columbia can offer that and draw people and businesses south. 

[growingup15]

1 hour ago, mpretori said:

Lots of potential for Columbia obviously. Columbia, really has got to put the foot to the pedal in recruiting businesses. I think only 1 tenant has moved into the first base building in Bull Street, 3 others have been on the market for a year now. I think once Columbia get's phase 2 under construction and tenants announced, the city will/should focus on the CBD. I think first, the city should build something similar to epicenter and create a entertainment hub, thats more dense than the vista. Then after, focus on creating a road system around the city more efficient and something like a beltway. Once, the city has the infrastructure(ie roads, internet, and city utilities) and entertainment, businesses should rapidly flock to the city. 

 

Also, one thing Columbia has, that Charlotte does not. 

Hint, Grand Rapids is a very good example of it. 

 

Also, do you know about specifics on the boded? 

We have a great riverfront thats untapped

[lucjanrc]

The riverfront is coming but it's going to take another 5-10 years. First a bridge has to be built across the railroad track for Greene Street to be extended towards the river. Greene Street will be a streetscaped pedestrian/bike/car road that will connect residents from downtown Columbia to the river. Things are progressing slowly because the land right along the river has to be cleaned because of tar pollution or something, I forgot. The first phase of Greene should be completed by August. The second phase along with the bridge will be started in 2017 and finished in 2019, and from there plans for the riverfront park should quickly emerge. For the riverfront park I would say 2020 for construction start at the earliest.

Edited May 28, 2016 by lucjanrc

[carolinagarnet]

21 hours ago, mpretori said:

“We have said all along that the economic loss has been real, the risk of further loss is great, and this is potentially catastrophic to our economy,” Morgan said.

When the Chamber throws out the C word you know troubling times are coming. Not to say, Charlotte wont recover, but it's going to take years to decades. Metlife is only 1 company, and a company that's already established in Charlotte. A office tower under construction, just lost a anchor. Lots of losses being incurred on developers right now with new businesses drastically being reduced. And i digress on the rock hill/fort mill notion. Most residents there use NC as entertainment and dramatic reduction of new businesses in Charlotte reduces addition of those services dramatically, so thats where Columbia can offer that and draw people and businesses south. 

Which office tower lost its tenant? The only building under construction with a tenant that I'm aware of is 300 South Tryon. Babson is both financing and anchoring it, so that would be odd. At any rate, I don't think Charlotte's loss will necessarily be Columbia's gain. Companies looking to relocate to Charlotte also consider cities in the same class: Atlanta, Nashville, and maybe Raleigh. Columbia is not in that equation, so the best South Carolina can hope for is probably a manufacturing facility that otherwise would have located in Charlotte metro. I would argue that Rock Hill/Fort Mill are much better positioned to gain business because companies can locate in Charlotte metro without facing the bad press associated with North Carolina. HB2 aside, Charlotte is an attractive city in which to locate due to the existing businesses, work force, cost of living, and location.

18 hours ago, lucjanrc said:

The riverfront is coming but it's going to take another 5-10 years. First a bridge has to be built across the railroad track for Greene Street to be extended towards the river. Greene Street will be a streetscaped pedestrian/bike/car road that will connect residents from downtown Columbia to the river. Things are progressing slowly because the land right along the river has to be cleaned because of tar pollution or something, I forgot. The first phase of Greene should be completed by August. The second phase along with the bridge will be started in 2017 and finished in 2019, and from there plans for the riverfront park should quickly emerge. For the riverfront park I would say 2020 for construction start at the earliest.

The big key for riverfront development will be the extension of Williams Street. The whole plot of land between Gervais and Blossom is effectively inaccessible at this point. The road is part of the Richland County Penny Tax program, but with the Department of Revenue investigation that has frozen state distributions, it is unclear whether the plans will be scrapped or delayed. As you mentioned, there is also the SCANA tar removal just south of the Gervais Street Bridge. This is scheduled to take a few years I believe and the timeline may be extended due to the floods. At this point, there is not a compelling reason to extend Williams since there is still plenty of developable land on Huger. Once that starts to become scarce, that land will become much more attactive.

Edited May 29, 2016 by carolinagarnet

[urbanlover568]

14 minutes ago, carolinagarnet said:

Which office tower lost its tenant? The only building under construction with a tenant that I'm aware of is 300 South Tryon. Babson is both financing and anchoring it, so that would be odd. At any rate, I don't think Charlotte's loss will necessarily be Columbia's gain. Companies looking to relocate to Charlotte also look at at cities in that same class: Atlanta, Nashville, and maybe Raleigh. Columbia is not in that equation, so the best South Carolina can hope for is probably a manufacturing facility that otherwise would have located in Charlotte metro. I would argue that Rock Hill/Fort Mill are much better positioned to gain business because companies can locate in Charlotte metro without facing the bad press associated with North Carolina. HB2 aside, Charlotte is an attractive city in which to locate due to the existing businesses, work force, cost of living, and location.

615 south college announced they had a anchor a few months ago, but nothing has been signed and no further announcements have been made. The announcement of a anchor was made right before HB2(ie paypal withdraw). Also, i think it's unfair to say companies would rather relocate to ATL and CHH or RAH. Also, note RAH is in NC, which is also loosing business. With the right growth strategies, CAE can become a rapidly growing city. Haley is gearing ahead for more tacit, knowledge-based jobs. I think once the riverfront is complete, things will rapidly boom. I mean, you have Lake Muarry and it's dirt cheap to live on it too compared to Lake Norman. GDP growth has also increased steadily for CAE. 

 

 

This will put CAE on the map for certain. 

Edited May 29, 2016 by mpretori

[urbanlover568]

@growingup15 Any word on the SCE&G lot on Huger Street. 

 

[carolinagarnet]

1 hour ago, mpretori said:

615 south college announced they had a anchor a few months ago, but nothing has been signed and no further announcements have been made. The announcement of a anchor was made right before HB2(ie paypal withdraw). Also, i think it's unfair to say companies would rather relocate to ATL and CHH or RAH. Also, note RAH is in NC, which is also loosing business. With the right growth strategies, CAE can become a rapidly growing city. Haley is gearing ahead for more tacit, knowledge-based jobs. I think once the riverfront is complete, things will rapidly boom. I mean, you have Lake Muarry and it's dirt cheap to live on it too compared to Lake Norman. GDP growth has also increased steadily for CAE. 

This is getting off topic, but 615 South College never publicly announced an anchor tenant. Portman started construction as a spec building because they knew they were going to hit the market ahead of Tryon Place and Stonewall Station. As for Columbia pulling development away from Charlotte, has that ever happened? I have never heard a company (read: not a manufacturer) announce that they were choosing between Charlotte, Columbia, and other cities. I would argue that Columbia's class is probably Greenville, Greensboro, Birmingham, and Knoxville. Like I said, I think Rock Hill/Fort Mill is in the best position to capitalize and rural South Carolina may pull a few manufacturing facilities that otherwise would have located in North Carolina. Haley (and by extension Bobby Hitt) will continue to prioritize manufacturing jobs over knowledge-based jobs so long as her base of support continues to be blue collar, rural voters. There is also an inherent bias against Columbia also suffers from not having a port- natural or inland- which will inhibit efforts to attract out-of-state companies. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Columbia. Unfortunately, the city will have to do the heavy lifting itself. 

That said, buildout of Bull Street may take a while if companies within the Midlands are not lining up to move into the new buildings. It is too early to judge the success of the development because most companies sign long-term leases and firms that may be interested may still be working through their lease terms. Given the high occupancy rate downtown, I expect another law or insurance firm to move within the next two years just to open up more space.

[urbanlover568]

1 hour ago, carolinagarnet said:

This is getting off topic, but 615 South College never publicly announced an anchor tenant. Portman started construction as a spec building because they knew they were going to hit the market ahead of Tryon Place and Stonewall Station. As for Columbia pulling development away from Charlotte, has that ever happened? I have never heard a company (read: not a manufacturer) announce that they were choosing between Charlotte, Columbia, and other cities. I would argue that Columbia's class is probably Greenville, Greensboro, Birmingham, and Knoxville. Like I said, I think Rock Hill/Fort Mill is in the best position to capitalize and rural South Carolina may pull a few manufacturing facilities that otherwise would have located in North Carolina. Haley (and by extension Bobby Hitt) will continue to prioritize manufacturing jobs over knowledge-based jobs so long as her base of support continues to be blue collar, rural voters. There is also an inherent bias against Columbia also suffers from not having a port- natural or inland- which will inhibit efforts to attract out-of-state companies. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Columbia. Unfortunately, the city will have to do the heavy lifting itself. 

That said, buildout of Bull Street may take a while if companies within the Midlands are not lining up to move into the new buildings. It is too early to judge the success of the development because most companies sign long-term leases and firms that may be interested may still be working through their lease terms. Given the high occupancy rate downtown, I expect another law or insurance firm to move within the next two years just to open up more space.

Yea, they sent out a notification they had a anchor months ago, but nothing and no lease has been signed. That means the perspective tenant has either backed off or waiting and seeing the further effects of HB2. Red Ventures just built a massive facility in rock hill, and Haley was right there at the ceremony. Columbia is just at the beginning stages of bringing gigabit internet to the city. Yes, office development has nearly stalled since Q4 of 2015, but i think that gives columbia time to make infrastructure improvements and make the city connected and walk-able. if you make the effort to build attractions and get your city ready for companies to come, companies will come. I think when the 80+ tenants hit bull street and it becomes a success, then you will see the CBD start to grow. But let me make this clear, Bull Street HAS to be a success, if it's not the city fails. So much has been staked on this development.