Bull Street Common

[growingup15]

19 minutes ago, carolinagarnet said:

To be fair, almost nobody that lives anywhere near Uptown goes to Epicentre. I went there a few times when I first moved to Charlotte and found that everyone was from the extreme outer suburbs- Kannapolis, Concord, Rock Hill, Matthews. It's popular because it's easy to locate, not because it has a great mix of bars. I agree with Spes that Columbia needs to focus on street facing retail, restaurants, and bars. Greenville's approach to development was smart- focus on one main corridor and then on its branches (side streets). Columbia is too large to do this, so for now there will be large gaps between the cores of the Vista, Main Street, 5 Points, and BullStreet. Long term the idea of a diagonal greenway that connects BullStreet to downtown and the Vista an interesting way of tying these islands together. 

I think a street car system mixed with overhauling Bull st that connects to Gervais st, Elmwood, the rest of Assembly that connects Elmwood, Gervais, Green St, Blossom and Rosewood, Overhaul the Rest of Harden St that connects all those same roads and to Bullstreet. and BOOM perfect connected city. now we just have to find a way to upgrade retail and living in those gaps. example like Harden street near Bullstreet Commons. nice houses right next to a sketchy neighbourhood. I used to live over there. they need a way to keep it cheap but refurbish that whole neighbourhood for mixed income families to move in. makes it less sketchy and people would look more into opening businesses along that corridor from there all the way down to Five points., Gervais st needs to upgrade like today. now no waiting just get ahead of the game before it gets out of hand. theres so many vacant retail there and businesses that looks like it doesnt fit on that street., Assembly its ok just need to finish their rehabilitation project. Elmwood IDK it looks fine just need to resurface and rebrand the rd now since its going to be a main connector to BullStreet Commons. again theres a lot of old buildings that are flling apart or vacant. Main street is supposed to finish its look soon that should bring more business down that way in the near future. and Bull Street is a mixed bag of does and donts in the wake of this new project.

[victory]

21 hours ago, growingup15 said:

I think a street car system mixed with overhauling Bull st that connects to Gervais st, Elmwood, the rest of Assembly that connects Elmwood, Gervais, Green St, Blossom and Rosewood, Overhaul the Rest of Harden St that connects all those same roads and to Bullstreet. and BOOM perfect connected city. now we just have to find a way to upgrade retail and living in those gaps. example like Harden street near Bullstreet Commons. nice houses right next to a sketchy neighbourhood. I used to live over there. they need a way to keep it cheap but refurbish that whole neighbourhood for mixed income families to move in. makes it less sketchy and people would look more into opening businesses along that corridor from there all the way down to Five points., Gervais st needs to upgrade like today. now no waiting just get ahead of the game before it gets out of hand. theres so many vacant retail there and businesses that looks like it doesnt fit on that street., Assembly its ok just need to finish their rehabilitation project. Elmwood IDK it looks fine just need to resurface and rebrand the rd now since its going to be a main connector to BullStreet Commons. again theres a lot of old buildings that are flling apart or vacant. Main street is supposed to finish its look soon that should bring more business down that way in the near future. and Bull Street is a mixed bag of does and donts in the wake of this new project.

You make some good points. The nice looking homes were part of a redevelopment of the Celia Saxon public housing (I believe), on Harden. I would love to see the new Gonzales Gardens replicate this model, assuming that land will eventually be the site for public housing again.

[growingup15]

4 hours ago, victory said:

You make some good points. The nice looking homes were part of a redevelopment of the Celia Saxon public housing (I believe), on Harden. I would love to see the new Gonzales Gardens replicate this model, assuming that land will eventually be the site for public housing again.

Yeah I just hope hey dont do what they did on Rosewood. they kicked all the poor blacks out and now have well off Whites only living there. The city definately needs to look into making sure that Harden St and the rest of Bull St Commons does turn int oa rich neighbourhood only. but have oppretunities for section 8 and Lower income families a chance to live those places also. meaning they should offer Top notch and Low wages apartments, lofts and condos there also.

[urbanlover568]

On 1/8/2016 at 10:47 AM, growingup15 said:

I think a street car system mixed with overhauling Bull st that connects to Gervais st, Elmwood, the rest of Assembly that connects Elmwood, Gervais, Green St, Blossom and Rosewood, Overhaul the Rest of Harden St that connects all those same roads and to Bullstreet. and BOOM perfect connected city. now we just have to find a way to upgrade retail and living in those gaps. example like Harden street near Bullstreet Commons. nice houses right next to a sketchy neighbourhood. I used to live over there. they need a way to keep it cheap but refurbish that whole neighbourhood for mixed income families to move in. makes it less sketchy and people would look more into opening businesses along that corridor from there all the way down to Five points., Gervais st needs to upgrade like today. now no waiting just get ahead of the game before it gets out of hand. theres so many vacant retail there and businesses that looks like it doesnt fit on that street., Assembly its ok just need to finish their rehabilitation project. Elmwood IDK it looks fine just need to resurface and rebrand the rd now since its going to be a main connector to BullStreet Commons. again theres a lot of old buildings that are flling apart or vacant. Main street is supposed to finish its look soon that should bring more business down that way in the near future. and Bull Street is a mixed bag of does and donts in the wake of this new project.

I think Columbia needs to attract more high paying jobs right now. I think that's the purpose of all these upper scale developments. People will relocate to Columbia if the city can provide world class amenities. Right now the median income of the city is lower than the state, and that should be the opposite. South Carolina relied on manufacturing to get them out of the recession and now it's time to attract tacit knowledge jobs. USC has realized this and started innovista and mentioned this in their latest economic meeting. 

[carolinagarnet]

6 hours ago, mpretori said:

I think Columbia needs to attract more high paying jobs right now. I think that's the purpose of all these upper scale developments. People will relocate to Columbia if the city can provide world class amenities. Right now the median income of the city is lower than the state, and that should be the opposite. South Carolina relied on manufacturing to get them out of the recession and now it's time to attract tacit knowledge jobs. USC has realized this and started innovista and mentioned this in their latest economic meeting. 

USC will probably end up generating most of those jobs directly and indirectly. The state has not been much help on the economic development front as manufacturing plays better than corporate relocation. I hope making the city more attractive to recent grads encourages entrepreneurs to choose Columbia over bigger cities in the region. Columbia as a city is pretty stable with all of the military and government jobs, so it's probably a great testing ground. Unfortunately organic development takes time, so I don't know that we can expect any game changers.

[growingup15]

8 hours ago, mpretori said:

I think Columbia needs to attract more high paying jobs right now. I think that's the purpose of all these upper scale developments. People will relocate to Columbia if the city can provide world class amenities. Right now the median income of the city is lower than the state, and that should be the opposite. South Carolina relied on manufacturing to get them out of the recession and now it's time to attract tacit knowledge jobs. USC has realized this and started innovista and mentioned this in their latest economic meeting. 

Yeah but you are missing the point I was stating. Im saying yes the city does need to bring in more higher paying jobs and world class this and that. But at the same time I dont want the city to get so caught up in it that they just completely forget about the less fortunate and/Or kick out the poor and build only high class and leave the poor people out.

example look at Uptown Charlotte. I have family who live up there. and yeah they can barely afford the low income place they live in and they told me the more Charlotte builds the price of their place is going up and they are slowly kicking out the poor people and only building these high class high rises and Luxury Condos in South End and stuff. but haven't heard anything yet about much new development for the lower income people.

im just saying. being a lower Income Millennial even at my current income I could never afford to live in someplace like Bull Street Commons if they are building what im thinking they are building there. I would love for something more affordable to be built also so I can have a chance to live in such a beautiful place. 

[urbanlover568]

9 hours ago, growingup15 said:

Yeah but you are missing the point I was stating. Im saying yes the city does need to bring in more higher paying jobs and world class this and that. But at the same time I dont want the city to get so caught up in it that they just completely forget about the less fortunate and/Or kick out the poor and build only high class and leave the poor people out.

example look at Uptown Charlotte. I have family who live up there. and yeah they can barely afford the low income place they live in and they told me the more Charlotte builds the price of their place is going up and they are slowly kicking out the poor people and only building these high class high rises and Luxury Condos in South End and stuff. but haven't heard anything yet about much new development for the lower income people.

im just saying. being a lower Income Millennial even at my current income I could never afford to live in someplace like Bull Street Commons if they are building what im thinking they are building there. I would love for something more affordable to be built also so I can have a chance to live in such a beautiful place. 

I'm a Millennial and I can afford it. I worked my way up in life and wasn't entitled. When you get higher paying jobs in, that creates demand for lower paying jobs. More lower paying jobs mean more demand for lower priced or section 8 housing. Charlotte has affordable/section 8 housing just not in the desirable areas... 

[carolinagarnet]

9 hours ago, growingup15 said:

Yeah but you are missing the point I was stating. Im saying yes the city does need to bring in more higher paying jobs and world class this and that. But at the same time I dont want the city to get so caught up in it that they just completely forget about the less fortunate and/Or kick out the poor and build only high class and leave the poor people out.

example look at Uptown Charlotte. I have family who live up there. and yeah they can barely afford the low income place they live in and they told me the more Charlotte builds the price of their place is going up and they are slowly kicking out the poor people and only building these high class high rises and Luxury Condos in South End and stuff. but haven't heard anything yet about much new development for the lower income people.

im just saying. being a lower Income Millennial even at my current income I could never afford to live in someplace like Bull Street Commons if they are building what im thinking they are building there. I would love for something more affordable to be built also so I can have a chance to live in such a beautiful place. 

Columbia is limited in its ability to build section 8 housing because the city has a fairly small tax base. You can blame USC and state government for this, but then they generate nearly all economic activity in the city center. The problem is that the city had not done much to attract people back into the core, at least until a few years ago. The more "high class" development there is in the city, the larger the tax base, the more money will be available for lower income housing. 

You also have to keep in mind that affordable housing is either partially or fully paid for by local government, whereas market rate development is paid for by private companies. Columbia is in growth mode and needs to capitalize on opportunities as they are presented. I'm actually a little concerned about the city pushing back too hard on developers and losing potential growth, but either way there seems to be pent up demand. Converting vacant or underdeveloped land to market rate apartments is good for the city. Perhaps all of the new development will enable the city to pay for a new, denser Gonzalez Gardens.

[growingup15]

53 minutes ago, mpretori said:

I'm a Millennial and I can afford it. I worked my way up in life and wasn't entitled. When you get higher paying jobs in, that creates demand for lower paying jobs. More lower paying jobs mean more demand for lower priced or section 8 housing. Charlotte has affordable/section 8 housing just not in the desirable areas... 

What are you trying to say that Im not trying? that Im not trying to work my way up to the top. that im blaming others for my own mistakes. you sound like one of those people who always had it and now look down on everyone. Yeah go into the Ghetto and tell everyone there that they need to stop being Entitled and Work you way up lets see how that turns out.

I worked a few jobs the past 8 years. my most recent job i was being paid 10 an hour being an auto tech at GoodYear. that wasnt enough at all because the price of living is slowly creeping up while wages are staying low. 

Yes i understand more higher paying jobs brings in more people which brings in more low paying jobs I get it. But what about the ones who need the wages raised now. Right now im 24 years old and still living with my parents. and believe me Im not the only one I know and have plenty of friends my age who lives in or around columbia and SC that still live with their parents and most of them have jobs or higher paying jobs. but you cant afford any of these places now. and if youre trying to stay out of the Ghetto which I definately dont want to go back to, you have to pay more money that you cant really afford. 10 an hour 12 an hour.

 

Now I did hear that Developer was planning on developing some mixed income housing in BullStreet Commons. also I heard Tom the guy whose building those Towers ontop the Garage are also building some Low income and Mixed income housing around the city. Thats good i like hearing that. I just wish i was hearing more of that in more desireable neighbourhoods.

[urbanlover568]

8 minutes ago, growingup15 said:

What are you trying to say that Im not trying? that Im not trying to work my way up to the top. that im blaming others for my own mistakes. you sound like one of those people who always had it and now look down on everyone. Yeah go into the Ghetto and tell everyone there that they need to stop being Entitled and Work you way up lets see how that turns out.

I worked a few jobs the past 8 years. my most recent job i was being paid 10 an hour being an auto tech at GoodYear. that wasnt enough at all because the price of living is slowly creeping up while wages are staying low. 

Yes i understand more higher paying jobs brings in more people which brings in more low paying jobs I get it. But what about the ones who need the wages raised now. Right now im 24 years old and still living with my parents. and believe me Im not the only one I know and have plenty of friends my age who lives in or around columbia and SC that still live with their parents and most of them have jobs or higher paying jobs. but you cant afford any of these places now. and if youre trying to stay out of the Ghetto which I definately dont want to go back to, you have to pay more money that you cant really afford. 10 an hour 12 an hour.

 

Now I did hear that Developer was planning on developing some mixed income housing in BullStreet Commons. also I heard Tom the guy whose building those Towers ontop the Garage are also building some Low income and Mixed income housing around the city. Thats good i like hearing that. I just wish i was hearing more of that in more desireable neighbourhoods.

I know it's hard, but we need to all start out someplace. I heard gunshots every night where i lived before. I worked in retail for 4 years on minimum wage then invested in my education. Education here is dirt cheap and in some cases fully covered. Try looking into a education opportunity or a apprenticeship program. But this is all besides the point, as carolinagarnet said Columbia just doesn't have the tax base, which is why we need higher paying jobs to support the lower income housing. 

[Spartan]

On 1/8/2016 at 10:18 AM, carolinagarnet said:

To be fair, almost nobody that lives anywhere near Uptown goes to Epicentre. I went there a few times when I first moved to Charlotte and found that everyone was from the extreme outer suburbs- Kannapolis, Concord, Rock Hill, Matthews. It's popular because it's easy to locate, not because it has a great mix of bars. I agree with Spes that Columbia needs to focus on street facing retail, restaurants, and bars. Greenville's approach to development was smart- focus on one main corridor and then on its branches (side streets). Columbia is too large to do this, so for now there will be large gaps between the cores of the Vista, Main Street, 5 Points, and BullStreet. Long term the idea of a diagonal greenway that connects BullStreet to downtown and the Vista an interesting way of tying these islands together. 

This is an accurate statement. Locals have a love-hate relationship with Epicenter. I like it because it attracts people (tourists) to the city and uptown, but I also hate it because its tacky and is an example of bad urbanism. Epicenter filled a retail void in Charlotte, and one of them was having a concentration of bar/clubs in uptown. The key thing is that the issue locals have with Epicenter is not the fact that it has retail and restaurants, but rather that it doesn't fit in very well and lacks any interesting local flavor. 

[growingup15]

20 minutes ago, Spartan said:

This is an accurate statement. Locals have a love-hate relationship with Epicenter. I like it because it attracts people (tourists) to the city and uptown, but I also hate it because its tacky and is an example of bad urbanism. Epicenter filled a retail void in Charlotte, and one of them was having a concentration of bar/clubs in uptown. The key thing is that the issue locals have with Epicenter is not the fact that it has retail and restaurants, but rather that it doesn't fit in very well and lacks any interesting local flavor. 

Really Every time i go to Charlotte I felt Epicenter was a perfect fit for Uptown Charlotte and I still feel something that in Columbia would be a perfect.

[Spartan]

Again, it's not that having Epicenter is bad - it's just that it wasn't well executed. People have been clamoring for retail for years. Columbia is actually in a better position to attract more authentic retail development along the lines of Greenville, Charleston, and Asheville. That should be the goal. Charlotte razed all of its old buildings and replaced them with lobbies. "EpiCentre" is what we got from those mistakes.

Bull Street will likely absorb most of the chain retail demand for years, which opens up more opportunities for authentic local establishments in the rest of downtown.

[carolinagarnet]

21 minutes ago, Spartan said:

This is an accurate statement. Locals have a love-hate relationship with Epicenter. I like it because it attracts people (tourists) to the city and uptown, but I also hate it because its tacky and is an example of bad urbanism. Epicenter filled a retail void in Charlotte, and one of them was having a concentration of bar/clubs in uptown. The key thing is that the issue locals have with Epicenter is not the fact that it has retail and restaurants, but rather that it doesn't fit in very well and lacks any interesting local flavor. 

You have a point- it helped spur development in Uptown. Charlotte suffered from a lack of foresight when the banks were building their massive headquarter buildings. There is very little street-facing retail, even on Tryon, and it is often overshadowed by massive lobbies. Columbia was fortunate to retain many of its beautiful old facades and smaller retail spaces, with the exception of the several blocks just north of the State House. With the Vista and Main Street already in place, I don't know that Columbia really needs something like Epicentre. I love the idea of Brookland in West Columbia- building streets on an existing piece of land to open it up even further. The one part of Epicentre that can be described as charming is the little alley that houses Mortimers. It would be very cool if a developer built a little street with pubs and restaurants, much like Brevard Court.

[CarolinaCrown]

5 hours ago, Spartan said:

Charlotte razed all of its old buildings and replaced them with lobbies. "EpiCentre" is what we got from those mistakes.

 

Eh, epicenter replaced the old convention center, I consider that a much better replacement. I'm not sure what was there beforehand though

[Spartan]

Before the convention center I think it was vacant land for about 10 years. Prior to that it was the old freight depot. 

Anyway - the point is that if Charlotte hadn't taken out most of its old buildings there wouldn't be a need for Epicenter - at least not in the same form. This is where Columbia can learn a lesson from Charlotte...

[CarolinaCrown]

1 hour ago, Spartan said:

Before the convention center I think it was vacant land for about 10 years. Prior to that it was the old freight depot. 

Anyway - the point is that if Charlotte hadn't taken out most of its old buildings there wouldn't be a need for Epicenter - at least not in the same form. This is where Columbia can learn a lesson from Charlotte...

Oh I completely agree, lots of history to work with here compared to Charlotte, there is absolutely no chance of an "epicenter type" development in Columbia there's just too much space and cheap space at that.

[victory]

A co-worker toured the Fireflies new stadium recently, and told me it will be very nice. He is affiliated with Soda City Suds Week, and they are scheduled to have their opening event at the stadium in March or April. He was told the project, despite the flooding, is on schedule.

[TKJones]

My boss mentioned an H&M and REI coming to bull street common - can anyone confirm this?

If he is right then I'd say both are a step in the right direction. Being yet another decentralized entertainment district, I feel like the best way for the commons to succeed in a way that benefits the city is probably by becoming a harbison alternative. Both of those stores fit into the hard to describe but very large category of Columbia's shopping that is currently only available out on Harbison or maybe Sandhills. A smaller scale selection (hopefully without the miserable traffic) would have a pretty big appeal and could help keep/bring people downtown while being different enough to not compete too heavily with main/vista/5pts

*Apologies if I bring up any old topics or news since I'm new to the site.

[carolinagarnet]

2 hours ago, TKJones said:

My boss mentioned an H&M and REI coming to bull street common - can anyone confirm this?

If he is right then I'd say both are a step in the right direction. Being yet another decentralized entertainment district, I feel like the best way for the commons to succeed in a way that benefits the city is probably by becoming a harbison alternative. Both of those stores fit into the hard to describe but very large category of Columbia's shopping that is currently only available out on Harbison or maybe Sandhills. A smaller scale selection (hopefully without the miserable traffic) would have a pretty big appeal and could help keep/bring people downtown while being different enough to not compete too heavily with main/vista/5pts

*Apologies if I bring up any old topics or news since I'm new to the site.

I haven't heard that news, but both would be great. If you think about the target markets (students, nearby residents, potentially office workers, people from inner suburbs), those stores along with Vineyard Vines, J. Crew, Banana Republic, and Forever 21 would probably play well.

[growingup15]

3 hours ago, TKJones said:

My boss mentioned an H&M and REI coming to bull street common - can anyone confirm this?

If he is right then I'd say both are a step in the right direction. Being yet another decentralized entertainment district, I feel like the best way for the commons to succeed in a way that benefits the city is probably by becoming a harbison alternative. Both of those stores fit into the hard to describe but very large category of Columbia's shopping that is currently only available out on Harbison or maybe Sandhills. A smaller scale selection (hopefully without the miserable traffic) would have a pretty big appeal and could help keep/bring people downtown while being different enough to not compete too heavily with main/vista/5pts

*Apologies if I bring up any old topics or news since I'm new to the site.

Funny you bring up "Miserable" Traffic I heard about 5 months ago that the city was looking into their original Plans to Connect 126-277 that little Spur you see when you get off of 277 Coming into town that looks like a possible interchange. Yeah i heard awhile back that the city was looking into that again in teh wake of downtown growth and a way to keep traffic flowing from 277-126 Without it clogging up downtown streets during rush hour

[Spartan]

The 277/126 connector will never happen. That being said, a connection from 277 to North Main Street would make a lot of sense (located north of the Harden St signal).

[urbanlover568]

It's almost February and Bull Street Commons still hasn't submitted their plans. Another deadline not met. 

[growingup15]

1 hour ago, Spartan said:

The 277/126 connector will never happen. That being said, a connection from 277 to North Main Street would make a lot of sense (located north of the Harden St signal).

I still think it can work the last time i talked with our mayor and SCDOT director they said it can still work.

1 hour ago, mpretori said:

It's almost February and Bull Street Commons still hasn't submitted their plans. Another deadline not met. 

What do you mean by that? like the companies that are planning to come?

[urbanlover568]

3 minutes ago, growingup15 said:

What do you mean by that? like the companies that are planning to come?

They said that they would submit their plans for review and announce the tenants this month. Over 75% of the office space looks unsold, can venture to say retail's proportions look the same.