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Which Rail Line Should Charlotte Build Next?


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Which Rail Line Should Charlotte Build Next?  

147 members have voted

  1. 1. Which Rail Line Should Charlotte Build Next?

    • University - Light Rail
      58
    • North - Commuter Rail Line
      35
    • South East - Bus Rapid Transit
      5
    • West - Bus Rapid Trasit
      5
    • East Streetcar Line
      14
    • Downtown Streetcar Circulator
      21
    • Commuter Rail to Rock Hill
      7
    • Other not planned (explain)
      2


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I think a commuter line to Rock Hill will be exceptionally beneficial to the system. There are soooo many commuters in the York/Chester/Lancaster county area that ride into Charlotte. That line would help ease congestion tremendously. Rock Hill wants it badly. I just fear that Charlotte leaders will be incompetent and deny any sort of negotiations. Everyone argues all the time about this LRT system, but we can't deny how much other systems had benefitted other cities that were our size a few years before. I wish people would accept the fact that we need a rail system in Charlotte in order to be able to handle the population and growth of the future.

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If Rock Hill / York County has the money to help pay for a commuter rail line to Charlotte...then the MTC is more than willing to listen. There is already Express Bus service to Rock Hill that has been running for a few years that has been succusful. Also there is a SC DOT rep on the MTC...and I have heard of Commuter Rail line to Rock Hill mentioned before...I beleive it would hook into the LRT around Arrowood Rd....don't quote me on that though.

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If Rock Hill / York County has the money to help pay for a commuter rail line to Charlotte...then the MTC is more than willing to listen. There is already Express Bus service to Rock Hill that has been running for a few years that has been succusful. Also there is a SC DOT rep on the MTC...and I have heard of Commuter Rail line to Rock Hill mentioned before...I beleive it would hook into the LRT around Arrowood Rd....don't quote me on that though.

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I believe the SCDOT would be willing to fund the project. That is the buzz around Rock Hill. The population is eager to have this service available. I just hope that people would stop piddling around and begin cost estimates and other studies for the York County Line. If they bring a commuter rail line down to Rock Hill, I would ride it all the time especially for downtown events. I do have one irritance with this LRT system. I think Pineville is being absolutely ridiculous about having the LRT in the Carolina Place area. Realistically...Traffic is a complete nightmare there. Why wouldn't you want something to help ease the traffic flow?

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Pineville doesnt want the LRT because Charlotte wants a certain about of dense development around the station that Pineville does not want, because it is afraid that dense development would further worsen traffic.

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Good point..but obviously Pineville traffic is terrible. In twenty years...I dont even want to fathom what it could potentially be.

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Good point..but obviously Pineville traffic is terrible. In twenty years...I dont even want to fathom what it could potentially be.

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This was one of the major disappointments of the South LRT. They really ought to have found a way to run the line to within walking distance of Pineville Mall.

The Mayor and City Council of Pineville at the time performed one of the biggest dis-services to that city's population by voting to keep the LRT out. There are cities all over the country fighting for funding for these things, and those idiots turn it down.

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Are there any petitions or backburner plans to go down to Pineville just in case? Or is this a dead dream?

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Once the people in Pineville see how well the Light Rail line works for the rest of the corridor, they'll wave their fists in the air and say "Why didn't you build the line out to Pineville!!" and start clamoring for an extension.

I'm betting the same thing will happen for the corridors slated for BRT, as well; people will see just how well LRT works and start demanding it in their region instead. I would have said "BRT, LRT, who cares? Same thing, isn't it?" until I actually went to charlotte and saw the extent of the redevelopment that's already happening along the trolley line, even though the full LRT system is still years in the future. They haven't made a decision on the technology for any of the other urban corridors yet, only recommendations. Both the LRT and the BRT options are still being weighed for the southeast corridor. Since that corridor has greater transit ridership than all the others AND all the residents want LRT, I'd think that the choice is clear, but I guess not.

The LRT lines should stay relatively short, however. They should mostly be a means of transportation within the city limits since they're not all that fast and make a bunch of stops. That is why commuter rail is important as well. I think a full commuter network in all directions (Gastonia, Mooresville, Kannapolis, Monroe, Rock Hill) as well as a full light rail network (airport, university, pineville, independence blvd, etc.) should be the long term goal. Who cares if it takes 40 years to build it all; if you're going to build it, build it with a vision, and build it right the first time because you're going to be stuck with it forever. It took that long to build out the Metro in Washington, DC - and there were many naysayers along the way, but now most people will tell you that DC couldn't possibly function without it.

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I had access to a map, which I conveniently did not bookmark (dammit) which shows what the CATS network will eventually look like--beyond what is presently portrayed in the 2025 map.

The North Commuter rail is of course set in stone, as is the south LRT (which has started construction). The NE corridor has always been said to be light rail, which is a great choice IMO.

The East line and Uptown circulator will be streetcars--likely occupying a buffer between the sidewalk and street.

The West and SE corridors are up in the air, but the original proposal said BRT. I recently read an article where there is a push for a streetcar line for the West instead of BRT: http://www.charlottetrolley.org/news.php?w...4_20040501.html

Anyway, the map I saw showed a SW Commuter Line to Rock Hill, a SE Commuter Line to Monroe, a NE Commuter Line to Salisbury, and I believe there was one other--all in addition to the LRT or BRT short range lines in the city limits along the same corridor.

It was quite impressive looking and I'm sure it will eventually evolve into something much like the map. The long range commuter trains (except the North line) had just one stop shared with their paralleled LRT route--they were otherwise an express route to Uptown. Great idea IMO.

There is also this visionary study and map showing candidate commuter rail corridors in NC: http://www.bytrain.org/quicklinks/reports/commuter.pdf

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Concerning the SE corridor: the reason I've heard time and again (though not officially) for BRT being the preferred choice is that the state and local governments have already sunk millions into the widening of Independence Blvd and creating a bus/car pool (one day maybe) lane in the middle. They ripped out all of the old bridges that previously had support beams in the median and rebuilt new ones that did not so buses could pass beneath them. For light rail to work along this corridor, the bridges would have to be removed once again and reconfigured for LRT.

I personally would love to see LRT for this line over buses, but this would be a really messy situation. The first problem would be trying to make a walkable Independence corridor which would be a huge challenge given that a 6 lane divided express-way slices it half the way into town. I would be more in favor of CATS running the line down Monroe Rd as it seems a little less intimidating to pedestrians. The Norfolk line that parallels Monroe is heavily used by freight trains making trips every two hours or so, and the company doesn't want to share its right-of-way understandably. Basically, East Charlotte is developed in such a fashion as to inhibit the possibility of LRT barring the spending of hundreds of millions of dollars more than the south line.

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By reading these entries...Charlotte is just a big sprawling mess. It is going to take some creative engineering and politics to have LRT in all of the desired corridoors. I think this plan to have West Charlotte as a BRT system is a shame. The airport should be served by a LRT line. I just wish CATS chose the system that Atlanta uses instead of LRT. It seems like there would be less problems if we did. What a mess...

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I just wish CATS chose the system that Atlanta uses instead of LRT.

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Atlanta's rail system is far from solving anything in the city. It certainly helps, but it could do so much more--one look at the Beltline proposal is proof of that.

Light rail serves Charlotte very well, and it is probably what Atlanta would choose today if it could. It is designed for intracity travel and has a much more street/urban friendly feel than an all grade-separated 3rd rail deal. The Charlotte system uses existing rail right of way also, which makes the whole project much cheaper than acquiring private land within an already highly developed corridor.

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By reading these entries...Charlotte is just a big sprawling mess. It is going to take some creative engineering and politics to have LRT in all of the desired corridoors. I think this plan to have West Charlotte as a BRT system is a shame. The airport should be served by a LRT line. I just wish CATS chose the system that Atlanta uses instead of LRT. It seems like there would be less problems if we did. What a mess...

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Problem with heavy rail is that it has to be 100% grade separated (since it uses 3rd rail for power.) That makes it very expensive. Heavy rail also requires expensive stations with turnstyles, escalators, concourses, and high platforms; the vehicles are also heavy so they don't accelerate as well as LRVs. All of this results in longer distances between stations.

Most implementations of LRT have low platforms, low floors, and allow people to walk directly across the tracks, which makes stations comparatively cheap.

In my opinion, the best kind of LRT is almost exactly like the south corridor: a dedicated, at-grade right of way. The only way you could possibly acheive this is by following a stream/river, which is taboo these days due to environmental issues, or by using abandoned rail line, which was right there for the South corridor but just doesn't exist for the Southeast.

So, in my opinion, the best and most future-proof option in this case involves combining the best aspects of heavy rail and light rail, with an end result something similar to St. Louis: build at-grade in the outlying areas, but go underground in the CBD (in other words, inside I-277.) This light rail subway would have to be along Trade St, with stops at the bus center and the future multimodal station. This would serve the greatest number of destinations and provide connections to every other form of transit in the city.

Of course, that would be expensive enough as to die - and would put off construction for a very long time. But is the goal to have the rapid transit network up and running ASAP, regardless of sacrifices, or is it to build a future-proof, world-class system? This is something the city and its leaders need to decide.

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Atlanta's rail system is far from solving anything in the city. It certainly helps, but it could do so much more--one look at the Beltline proposal is proof of that.

Light rail serves Charlotte very well, and it is probably what Atlanta would choose today if it could. It is designed for intracity travel and has a much more street/urban friendly feel than an all grade-separated 3rd rail deal. The Charlotte system uses existing rail right of way also, which makes the whole project much cheaper than acquiring private land within an already highly developed corridor.

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The problem with MARTA is that it only has 2 lines, with a couple of spurs. If you live in Decatur and work in Chamblee then to use the rail system you'd have to go to Five Points and change trains. It would seem to be quicker to take 285.

What Atlanta needs to do and what I hope Charlotte will do is not rely on a radial system. There needs to be a line (or lines) that circulate around the city. Are there any maps that show the entrie system after completion?

I think the line to the airport would be most useful next. That would be a key link to the city center for conventioners, and tourists. Residents would be better connected to the airport as well.

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Why can't Charlotte put LRT down the middle of Independence? A good example of how this would work would be the Dan Ryan Expressway running from downtown Chicago to 95th street. Nearly all of the stops on that line are done in the middle of the expressway with elevators leading to the bridge. Perhaps there's not enough room in the two lanes that are currently the busway on Independence to accomodate this, but I've often wondered just why it is so hard to accomplish this.

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The southeast corridor does have an existing rail corridor which runs just west of monroe road and I believe goes right near downtown matthews and monroe. it was considered as part of the initial studies, but the community groups and cats still chose independence. I think it would have been a much better choice than going down independence because light rail could go where healthy residential developments might possibly be built.

I'll be completely honest here: i believe the independence option was chosen because they want transit money to be spend to quicken the conversion of independence to a freeway. I think people drooled at that idea and pushed the idea accordingly. Now, however, they are caught in their own catch22. They want light rail because it carries more prestige than busways, and they want the investment to apply to independence. Light rail, however, rely on the dense TOD development to justify the costs, but that is not possible if run down the middle of a freeway. I think they are stuck with a busway because everyone was so set on independence being THE transit corridor for the SE.

A better option could have been to chose the rail line for rail and simply had enhanced bus service on 74.

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I personally think that busways make more sense on Independence and that the smart thing would be to put Commuter Rail out that rail corridor you were describing.......stops would be between Wendover and McAlway.......at Levine's Busines Park at Village Lake.....in downtown Matthews.....just across 485 at CPCC's Levine Campus.......at Indian Trail Rd..........and downtown Monroe........possibly also at Central so a transfer could be made to the streetcar.

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I personally think that busways make more sense on Independence and that the smart thing would be to put Commuter Rail out that rail corridor you were describing.......stops would be between Wendover and McAlway.......at Levine's Busines Park at Village Lake.....in downtown Matthews.....just across 485 at CPCC's Levine Campus.......at Indian Trail Rd..........and downtown Monroe........possibly also at Central so a transfer could be made to the streetcar.

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I would be in favor of that idea (and think it is a good idea), but how could this happen without breaking the bank in the age of federal deficits? The only way i see this happening is if independence work is shifted back to the highway funds pool (which puts it in the 2030 time frame). Otherwise, it will not be possible to justify the [very high] cost of two parallel, competiting transit lines.

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Dubone....I agree, though commuter rail is substantially cheaper than LRT......Enhanced bus service could serve Independence in the short term as the espressway and bus lanes are extended at a more leisurely pace (does NCDOT do things any other way)

It seems odd that this wasn't considered more thoroughly from the start. I suspect that Union County was less than eager, but seeing as they are the fastest growing county in the region (and the state?) that they will want to latch on to anything that reduces highway congestion.

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