Charlotte Bobcats Arena

[monsoon]

Luckily, Charlotte is now contractually immune to the changing whims of the NBA through 2030.

I think we already had this discussion. The arena cost the city $250M. That's $250M that can't be used to build something downtown that would bring a lot more people to the center city than the same 17K that go to watch ballgames. And it's $250M the city has already lost out on the "whims" of the NBA. I think the fact they have not had consistent sellouts the first few times they played downtown is a bad sign for the NBA in Charlotte. The "newness" must have already worn off.

[dubone]

You are right, Charlotte was beholden to the NBA, and we paid dearly for it. My point was that now that issue is resolved (for better or worse), we have corrected the balance of power for the future by adding a repayment clause to the contract. Charlotte is now contractually immune from any changing whims of the NBA through 2030, now that the uptown arena is built.

If the NBA decides in 16 years that they no longer like skyboxes and their business model now works better with 24000 general admission seats, Charlotte will not have to do anything. The Bobcats can threaten to leave, but they will have to pay off the rest of the arena debt.

As far as the older debate on the value of the uptown arena, you are right, the opportunity cost was tremendous. Also, the way the whole thing was handled created a lack of goodwill and honeymoon phase for the new arena and team. The opening of the arena has been relatively successful, but it has certainly not been a honeymoon.

I hope this becomes a case study for the NBA and NBA cities. Cities that build arenas need to have a strict contract to prevent the NBA from constantly changing their mind on the arena design before the lifespan has passed. The NBA should also no longer expect to have a major boost in business simply by asking the public to build a new arena.

Whether it was worth the cost or not, it has definitely been a positive change for Charlotte nightlife to have an average of 17,000 people for the games. The vibe is just exponential better now downtown than it was before.

[poplife88]

I think we already had this discussion. The arena cost the city $250M. That's $250M that can't be used to build something downtown that would bring a lot more people to the center city than the same 17K that go to watch ballgames. And it's $250M the city has already lost out on the "whims" of the NBA. I think the fact they have not had consistent sellouts the first few times they played downtown is a bad sign for the NBA in Charlotte. The "newness" must have already worn off.

Again, not to always sound contrary to your opinions but I can't think of anything that would be able to consistently bring in these numbers of crowds for so many nights of the year and not just for NBA games.

[poplife88]

Where do you find the arena attendance number? Is it just for NBA games, or all events?

I typed in NBA attendance rankings under Yahoo and the first site listed is at ESPN.go.com. It's under their NBA page but I'm not quite sure where the attendance figures are from their. Our numbers are still in the bottom half of the league (I think we're 18 out of 30) but with 17,000 I think that points to the strong health of the league. Those figures do not include all events like the Rolling Stones or Elton John concerts or the Checkers, so I'd put the total figure at around 150,000 since the arena opened (approximately a month?)

[eastsider]

I typed in NBA attendance rankings under Yahoo and the first site listed is at ESPN.go.com. It's under their NBA page but I'm not quite sure where the attendance figures are from their. Our numbers are still in the bottom half of the league (I think we're 18 out of 30) but with 17,000 I think that points to the strong health of the league. Those figures do not include all events like the Rolling Stones or Elton John concerts or the Checkers, so I'd put the total figure at around 150,000 since the arena opened (approximately a month?)

In fact it opened with the Stones concert exactly one month ago today. So with The Stones and Elton John concerts (guessing 18,000 each), 5 Bobcats games @ 17,000 avg., 8,000 plus for Checkers game, Arenacross this past weekend (no idea how many went), plus the open house weekend 25,000-30,000, I would say close to 160,000.

[monsoon]

You are right Dubone. I promise I will quit harping on it. Well I will try.

[dubone]

In a few years, I'm sure there will be some serious study as to whether the massive investment has even come close to meeting its economic development goals.

It will be definitely be an interesting story to follow.

17000 is good, but I think everyone was expecting sellouts for the first month of the new arena.

I kind of think that as the bad memories fade, and the team gets better, that attendance will rise. But it could just as easily never get off the ground. Time will tell.

[poplife88]

What stands out to me as my family and I went to our first Bobcats game was the old couple to the right of me who cheered whenever the Bobcats made a good play, or the old man who was by himself who also cheered whenever Raymond Felton made a big 3 or when Emeka Okafor grabbed a big rebound, or finally whenever everyone around us would turn and smile at our young daughter and son as they innocently and enthusiastically rooted for the home team. There's nothing like a sports team that can bring a community together and give them a common demoninator to root for. Maybe I'm being sappy but this is what I get out of going to an event like this.

[UptownGrrl]

http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte.../21/story5.html

The Bobcats are revising their pitch for naming rights now that the arena is open. It seems like it is becoming more common to not get a deal before the arena opens.

The leading local company speculation is around Lowe's, Wachovia, and Bank of America, obviously.

I'm not sure there is any real news, but it seems that there is a renewed push for naming rights now that the building has been open, and relatively successful.

Since Wachovia signed on as the "official bank" of the Bobcats, it's unlikely they would take the lead naming rights as well; and given the Wachovia deal, its equally unlikely that B of A would either. Seems a good strategic move on Wachovia's part. They get to sponsor at a much lower cost, and more or less preclude B of A from a greater sponsorship, since I'm sure the Wachovia deal includes some sort of industry exclusivity.

[krazeeboi]

^And it would seem as though the company would want to avoid confusion, as Wachovia has naming rights to the Philadelphia 76ers' arena, Wachovia Center.

[eastsider]

Last night, the Checkers set a team record high in home attendance with 10,894 people at the game.

[SmellyCat]

Last night, the Checkers set a team record high in home attendance with 10,894 people at the game.

Very impressive. Only 2500 fewer people than the Hurricanes drew earlier this week in Raleigh against the Ottawa Senators, the team with the best record in the NHL.

[ngp]

Very impressive. Only 2500 fewer people than the Hurricanes drew earlier this week in Raleigh against the Ottawa Senators, the team with the best record in the NHL.

How awesome would it be if the Canes moved to Charlotte? And since they're not called the Raleigh Hurricanes, paperwork would be minimal.

Too bad it won't happen.

[dubone]

How awesome would it be if the Canes moved to Charlotte? And since they're not called the Raleigh Hurricanes, paperwork would be minimal.

Too bad it won't happen.

It seems possible in the long term, especially if the Checkers are able to sustain these and larger numbers. However, part of the reason for the high attendance is the extremely low price for Checkers games. NHL prices might not get similar attendance.

Let Raleigh keep the 'Canes. We can talk about it again in ten years when hopefully we will have stabilized our current pro-sports in Charlotte.

[dubone]

By the way, the city has more than paid off the arena cost, and has an excess of $985k.....this assuming they only get $19M, and does not include the out-parcel right at the corner of Trade and Caldwell.....the money is being put back into the pool that can be used for tourism or capital expenses, so it could in theory be used for Arts.

That is good news. Although, "paid off" actually just means they already floated enough bonds, right?

Did both of the "porkchop" lots get sold to Preferred Parking?

I actually kind of hope the parcel at Trade and Caldwell isn't sold. It is a rather cool place for a little pocket park. I'm not so sure much can be built there, considering the lack of parking. I suspect that it will not prove to be commercially viable, and will end up being selected as a site for future government offices, since the land is sunk cost, and parking is less of a concern for the government with all the nearby decks and transit.

[cinco]

It seems possible in the long term, especially if the Checkers are able to sustain these and larger numbers. However, part of the reason for the high attendance is the extremely low price for Checkers games. NHL prices might not get similar attendance.

also, if i'm not mistaken... @ the checkers game the other night... weren't kids under 10 free. if so that would add a higher percentage to the 10,000 +. not to diminish the crowds, i hope they keep growing as for the money it's a great time.

[atlrvr]

The second porkchop (the one closer to the light rail tracks) has not yet been marketed for sale, though it will be sold next year.....the $985k surplus assumes that city can get the appraised value for the pork-chop.

Preferred Parking is under contract to buy the little development site at Trade and Caldwell...no idea what they will use it for, if anything (they are almost as bad land-bankers as Levine). They will buy it for just over $1M, but the money is not earmarked for anything, and can be used to cover capital cost for whatever the city sees fit.

The space is useful for office or retail, but it's going to be a hard sell, because I don't see parking on that site.....it's kinda sad that it's a limiting factor here in Charlotte...makes me wonder how anything got built in NYC.

[A2]

The second porkchop (the one closer to the light rail tracks) has not yet been marketed for sale, though it will be sold next year.....the $985k surplus assumes that city can get the appraised value for the pork-chop.

Preferred Parking is under contract to buy the little development site at Trade and Caldwell...no idea what they will use it for, if anything (they are almost as bad land-bankers as Levine). They will buy it for just over $1M, but the money is not earmarked for anything, and can be used to cover capital cost for whatever the city sees fit.

The space is useful for office or retail, but it's going to be a hard sell, because I don't see parking on that site.....it's kinda sad that it's a limiting factor here in Charlotte...makes me wonder how anything got built in NYC.

Well that just sucks. Oh well thanks for the update atlrvr.

A2

[dubone]

Hopefully something will happen in the market that will lead to a better buyer than Preferred Parking for the western porkchop. The parking on the Breakfast Club block would not be so bad if something were built up across the street.

It is really unfortunate that the city will sell Trade and Caldwell to a surface parking company. I think it would have been a better decision to forgo the $1m. A grass lot would be better than a surface parking lot until a building is needed. It would have been good to keep that land for a future government offices project. But, I guess with current budget crunch, it is better to just get the cash and revert it to the private sector for the tax revenues.

[atlrvr]

But, I guess with current budget crunch, it is better to just get the cash and revert it to the private sector for the tax revenues.

Now you're thinking like a bureaucrat!

[dubone]

Now you're thinking like a bureaucrat!

.

Charlotte sometimes seems to think long term in some areas, but, in other cases, they do things that are so short-focused and political. I guess it is just a matter of which employees are involved in each issue.

[skylinedrive]

Preferred Parking is under contract to buy the little development site at Trade and Caldwell...no idea what they will use it for, if anything (they are almost as bad land-bankers as Levine). They will buy it for just over $1M, but the money is not earmarked for anything, and can be used to cover capital cost for whatever the city sees fit.

Are you talking about the grass lawn parcel which at one time was under option by Trammel Crow? I know that last week that Council sold the strip of land along Caldwell next to the YWCA to Preferred Parking for $1.5M. However I had not heard that Preferred Parking has the grass lawn parcel under contract. When did that happen. It would be strange for them to buy that lot as a parking lot could not be built there.

[dubone]

Are you talking about the grass lawn parcel which at one time was under option by Trammel Crow? I know that last week that Council sold the strip of land along Caldwell next to the YWCA to Preferred Parking for $1.5M. However I had not heard that Preferred Parking has the grass lawn parcel under contract. When did that happen. It would be strange for them to buy that lot as a parking lot could not be built there.

That is great news. Hopefully you are right, and the "Trade and Caldwell land sale" is just the site south of Trade and not the grass lawn. As I wrote earlier, I want the city to keep that for posterity, and in the mean time, we get to keep some open space.

[dubone]

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/business/13365274.htm

Although I know first hand that the arena has done very well on weekends, I was skeptical that much was happening on random weekday events.

According to the Observer, attendance has been surprisingly good on even weekday events. Charlotte is now in the middle of the road for attendance ranking.

Checkers attendance is up 33%!

I think the biggest news of all, though, that I think creates the best chance of winning back suburban fans, is that traffic problems are non-existent. The article gave anecdotal reports of 10 minute total travel time home from the Bobcats arena compared to 30 minutes just to leave the parking lot at the old Coliseum. I think that fits in with what I've seen around downtown. Arena traffic is a blip on the radar.

[SmellyCat]

Checkers attendance is up 33%!

I went to my first Checkers game just before Thanksgiving and have to say it was one of the more fun experiences I've had recently. I walked up to the arena box office just before the game, got great seats, very reasonably priced, and wasn't disappointed. Sure, minor league hockey is gimmicky - seems like every little thing is sponsored by something - like "OK fans, that Checkers goal was brought to you by Bojangles!" and "here's a Donald Craig Suzuki power play!". I am exaggerating to a degree, but you get the drift. And the fans are interesting too. Doesn't venture too far from what's depicted in the classic cult movie Slap Shot. I did have a blast. AND the arena is very impressive, far surpassing what I had hoped for.

Arena traffic is a blip on the radar.

I am throughly surprised by how well they have handled the traffic situation. As you say dubone, it seems to be a non-event.