Charlotte Bobcats Arena

[krazeeboi]

it has only been a little over a year. that can't possibly be enough time for urban fabric to be created. The arena can't do it on its own. urban development takes time and symbiotic relationships between centers of activity.

[monsoon]

The exact claims where made about BofA stadium. It never took off. Each time one of these things are built, boosters will say exactly the same thing again, and will also say "It will be different this time". So far there is absolutely no indication this will be the case.

[uptownliving]

Charlotte has a history of publically financing Arenas. Both the Charlotte Coliseum and the Independence Arena were financed 100% on the back of property tax payers in Charlotte. I think its great that the new Arena is financed mostly on the backs of people that stay in hotels in Charlotte and not property tax.

Its not just Arenas that create "dead space"...it also offices, homes, just about every type building out there has its own down...or "dead time"

The key to averting dead zones is having mixed use. This is where the Arena at least is making an effort. They have retail uses coming in on Trade St...in addition to a condo tower and hotel. And of course the LRT station right there next to it as well. In the next few years when all of that is completed it will be hard to convince people that is a dead zone.

[cinco]

i am indifferent to the arena... mainly, b/c it's already there. with furman's tower and epicentre and others - i'm hopeful that the future for this area is going to be very active.

seabreeze, sorry i came across as being offended... but, my only point was to say that there was activity before. your right that it wasn't much overall. the truth is the area was mostly surface lots, but, i would say that the corner where carpe diem was - was as busy as any corner, located that many blocks from the square. i also believe that if this area had of been developed residential and retail, while preserving the cluster of old building, that it would have been very successful with way more activity than we see currently.

i voted NO for george shinns arena, and i think the politicians gambled big on bob johnsons pitch. though, i do see the difference of the 2 (many people voted against shinn rather than the arena itself).

all this said, i do think center city needs to put the brakes on stadiums and arenas being built on valuable uptown land. IMO, the fact that they are behemoth and frequently used - makes the dead zone arguement valid anyway you look @ it.

[eastsider]

Use the search. There is already a discussion on this in this thread and there were some events listed there.

And there this is this. They seem to have the same conclusions about the benefits of the arena.

[swh1972]

While individual sports venues by themselves may lead to "dead spots" when not in use, one can not ignore the economic effect to the region that sports teams bring (tax revenue, jobs, etc...). Having professional sports teams in Charlotte helps attract residents to the area...not by themselves, but they are a component of what an individual may consider when deciding whether or not to move here.

The same can be said for the Arts projects that are proposed, and I fully support these as well. Each of these is just another piece of the overall puzzle, so to speak. Having things to do and places to go in Uptown is the only way that the "urban experience" will be realized.

[JerseyBoy]

Also, I think the arena is being used as a luring magnet for prospective buyers by condo developers in Uptown. Like on advertisements for 210 Trade, I've seen "steps away from concerts, sporting events, and endless entertainment options." Plus, if you were staying in Uptown a few years ago there was really nothing you could do but wonder around, go to College Street, and eat some dinner. All of the entertainment was back out on Tyvola. Now, you can walk and get tickets to a concert and grab some dinner all within a few blocks of your hotel. When I was in Charlotte in March when the CIAA tournament was going on, you wouldn't believe the amount of people that were on Tryon/Trade just because of it eating lunch and looking into the few retail stores we have. You wouldn't have condo towers like "Courtside" and the future pencil tower built because that land was all away in a swamp of black-tops and parking signs. And, I don't even think 210 Trade would've been built/considered (well if it is going to get built) because what would they have had as a magnet to attract people down there to buy a condo besides Light Rail and being close to your office. You just can't jump the gun and say after one year that the arena was a failure. Give it time and I think we will all be pleased with the results. But, if it is not then I will be the first to admit I was wrong.

[monsoon]

So really there has not been a net loss of events due to the size or location of the new arena. The past discussions on this thread are just spreading misinformation.

[Miesian Corners]

My neighbor worked for the Coliseum authority. Her explanation as to why we didn't get good concerts was that the building wasn't marketed properly.

The uptown building has a new marketing department and has aggressively gone after big names. For the most part, its been successful. We actually had concerts this year that neither GSO or RDU got.

[MZT]

Did Verizon Wireless, or the Tyvola colesium, jump start a lot of development all around them? It doesn't seem that way to me. The city just grew normally, and encroached around them.

When Furman says "Courtside would not have been built without the Arena" - I think what he means is that it would not be as large, or the financiers would have been harder to convince. But he was comitted to uptown. I bet he still would have built at least a lowrise there.

I agree with the sentiment that the Arena is just one piece. There was probably too much willingness at first for people to think "it would change everything". It's one pepparoni on the pizza. (A $300M dollar one, though. ) The same may end up being said about Epicenter, the baseball stadium, the Ritz Carleton, NHOF, the urban park, etc. They are all incremental things.

I can accept the Arena since it was built as I arrived here, and I didn't vote on it. But change takes time. Heck, we're still waiting for the street level retail in the Arena itself to fill out, much less the surrounding buildings.

[Charlotte_native]

I voted against the arena, partly because I disliked George Shinn as much as many of us and didn't want him to get a free ride. I also didn't want public money paying for these types of uses (the city didn't chip in any money for my office). Now that it is here I think it isn't very prudent to discount any benefits we get from it just because we didn't want it in the beginning.

There are many reasons that the center city area is seeing marked increases in investment -- maybe this didn't help at all but most would find that quite hard to believe.

Charlotte has had incredible growth over the past 10 years, these facilities have come as a part of it or the development added around these could have come as a result of the public investment -- no one can ever say what would or would not be here if the arena or stadium weren't around since they are already here.

Did Verizon Wireless, or the Tyvola colesium, jump start a lot of development all around them? It doesn't seem that way to me. The city just grew normally, and encroached around them.

[atlrvr]

I didn't know best where to put this, but I found it somewhat amusing. It's an interview with Lynn Wheeler, who is now once again flip flopping, and admitting that now that she is out of politics that the arena is good for the city, and her so called "about face" last year was just a lame attempt to gain the conservative vote.

Q. Why do you think you lost? I think I ran a poor campaign and tried to reinvent myself into someone I wasn't. I'm a Republican and tend toward conservative ... but I was trying to look more conservative than I really am. And then there's the arena.

Q. Do you regret supporting the arena? I think the arena is good for the city. It's created economic development and tax revenue. So, no, I would not back off that decision.

[monsoon]

There is a front page article in today's Observer that claims the Bobcats gave away thousands of free seats in order to boost attendance figures for their first season in the new tax payer paid for arena. This was done to protect their "image". Despite this they still managed to end up on the bottom 1/2 of the seat attendence rank for the NBA and very few sellouts.

If this is true, this is further proof this project was an expensive boondogle for the city.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Spending $280m on basketball, a sport that is falling from the approval of the middleclass every game, wasn't the wisest investment.

Charlotte certainly doesn't have a good record, nor do most cities, of building things that have appeal for the longterm and don't end up a 'boondogle'. The Convention Center is, on the whole, unsuccessful; the transit system operates deeply in red (more people work at home than ride transit); and now this arena isn't bringing the foot traffic and interest planned.

Personally, I know that when I visit downtown, I don't want to walk near the arena on the side opposite from the EpiCentre construction; nor do I like to walk by the bus terminal. On the side opposite the bus terminal, it's a long walk and you have a blank wall on one side and parking lot on the other, on the bus terminal side, well I value my safety... My point is that this is a typical end result of a city's projects, and it hasn't been successful on any level - from bringing development, to creating a pedestrian environment, to bringing a new excitement downtown.

[uptownliving]

So, moonsheild, what should the city do now to rectify the situation of the arena?

[peaceloveunderstanding]

It can't, but it should restrain itself from making the same mistake in the future.

It doesn't look that will be the case, however.

[reverbandwhiskey]

The majority of people in the area apparently don't care about the basketball team either.

Personally, I know that when I visit downtown, I don't want to walk near the arena on the side opposite from the EpiCentre construction; nor do I like to walk by the bus terminal. On the side opposite the bus terminal, it's a long walk and you have a blank wall on one side and parking lot on the other, on the bus terminal side, well I value my safety... My point is that this is a typical end result of a city's projects, and it hasn't been successful on any level - from bringing development, to creating a pedestrian environment, to bringing a new excitement downtown.

[ElricSeven]

Spending $280m on basketball, a sport that is falling from the approval of the middleclass every game, wasn't the wisest investment.

Charlotte certainly doesn't have a good record, nor do most cities, of building things that have appeal for the longterm and don't end up a 'boondogle'. The Convention Center is, on the whole, unsuccessful; the transit system operates deeply in red (more people work at home than ride transit); and now this arena isn't bringing the foot traffic and interest planned.

Personally, I know that when I visit downtown, I don't want to walk near the arena on the side opposite from the EpiCentre construction; nor do I like to walk by the bus terminal. On the side opposite the bus terminal, it's a long walk and you have a blank wall on one side and parking lot on the other, on the bus terminal side, well I value my safety... My point is that this is a typical end result of a city's projects, and it hasn't been successful on any level - from bringing development, to creating a pedestrian environment, to bringing a new excitement downtown.

[DanRNC]

Its amazing that they gave tickets away and still had lousy attendance. They were charging $98 a seat to sit in the lower level of the Dean Dome for an exhibition game-needless to say there were maybe 500 people at the game. Can you say alienation a potential fan base. They lowered the ticket prices to $40 for the second game and the turn out may have been even lower. We walked in for free during the 3rd period and got seats all the way down in the front behind the bench. In some ways I feel sorry for this franchise.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Now as to the question as to whether the "public good" is equal to the public expenditure on these projects, that's where the question lies...

[ElricSeven]

You are correct, but the case can certainly be made that transit in Charlotte is such a case where the utility, public good, isn't proportional to the dollars spent. Yes, the numbers of trips increased recently, but the expenses increased by a far greater degree:

Between 2002 and 2004, Ridership increased 13.8%, while total expenses increased 130.52%. Total expenses were $186,718,249 for 2004, while the total number of trips was 18,875,635.

Transit, as it stands, doesn't make sense in Charlotte, but I hope this LRT proves me wrong. The NE section will face a very steep climb to being economically sensible if it in fact costs upwards of $700m. I'd love to be wrong, but I don't see the SE line being economically sensible either when compared to laying asphalt.

I've been there twice, and both times I was the only (or nearly the only) white guy. It was uncomfortable, with all sorts of gang bangers hanging about and yelling.

---

Back to the team, I don't see support getting any better - win or lose. The name has never been popular, the owner not popular, the bad taste of the arena deal will not be quickly forgotten, and they are not promoting themselves to as broad group of fans as the Panthers have.

[Charlotte_native]

I'm absolutely positive that winning a championship or two would transform their appeal entirely. People want to be part of a winner, it is huge fun. There are really few experiences like having your hometown team win a championship. I've had the good fortune to be from a town that's had more than its fair share and previously unknown, unliked and unsuccessful franchises (e.g., the Pittsburgh Penguins) experience a complete turnaround as soon as it happens. The afterglow on the Penguins lasted for a decade and a half and only subsided after about 6 consecutive unsuccessful seasons. However, they've never even come close to being half as bad off as before the big wins.

[DanRNC]

Or the Sabres. Look what their winning records then championship did for southern hockey fans (who never existed before -- though many are transplants).

[monsoon]

.....

i don't really think the Bobcats or Johnson are at fault, they came here with an uphill climb to begin with.

[revitalize]

so opening night is tonight at the arena, right? lets hope a big, supportive crowd shows up to cheer on the Bobcats!.... and who knows maybe this is their year - they've got a lot of potential.