Springfield

[vicupstate]

Restoring a part of Springfield’s history

For over a century, Fire Station No. 2 has provided service and protection to the community of Springfield. Now city and community leaders are working together to raise money to restore this historic working fire station.

“Fire Station No. 2 has played a significant part in Springfield’s history,” said SPAR Council President Louise DeSpain. “The news of the preservation has been well-received and getting fantastic support from Springfield residents. The goal is to restore Fire Station No. 2 to its former glory and beauty.”

Although altered from its original configuration, Fire Station No. 2 is still a highly visible landmark with its 1909 date of construction emblazoned on the fa

[Urban_Legend]

I hope the Film Festival is a smashing success! It'll be a great chance to bring in lots of people to the area.

[Britainny]

After spendng the last 6 weeks or so driving around Springfield ( extensively), I have come to the conclusion that property owners are either on the the substance (that can be acquired in copious amts in the area) or are just taking the mickey. Springfield is still Springfield after all.

I was drawn back to the area as five years had passed since the last time I had checked it out and all though there seemed to be a few more homes that had been fixed up, not a lot had changed. SRG have been buying lots, building kit homes ( & selling at inflated prices to naive 'out of towners')& there are a couple of 'proposed' projects for the area but overall, Springfield is eons away from being 'desirable'. It is LONG LONG walk into downtown if you are brave enough to walk, Main St is years away from being the kind of place you can feel comfortable walking around at night. The streets & sidewalks on the East & Westside are in desperate shape and it still has the feel of the 'hood' , make no bones about it... you get the picture. All that being said, I was attracted to the architectural style of the homes & of course the sq footage. I told my very cynical husband that it was a trade off; you live in a crappy area but get more house for your money..and 'hopefully' the area will improve and everyone will be happy. So, with an optimistic mind I ventured out & did some solid research & came away laughing..I found out that everything was ridiculously over priced. Homes were bought at auction a few years back for pennies on the dollar, some apparently for less than a $1000. These same people, after fixing them up a bit are trying to flip them for $200-300,000! and forget it if you're thinking of fixing something up yourself, I got pricing on homes that looked like they would fall over if you blew on them and they were asking over $100,000 for those! There were ALOT of homes for sale...I wonder why? Most of them have been for sale for a long time too. I get the impression that the people who live there think that Springfield has 'arrived' and you can't get anybody to speak objectively about the area at all. Bottom line....at the current pricing we would NEVER move there. I have spoke to other people that feel the same way. It's a shame because the current price gauging is turing people away & will inevitably slow the growth of the area. Why is everyone moving out anyway??

[Captain Obvious]

well gee ... um welcome to the forums?

Though if everything you say in your post is true, why on earth would you feel the need to sign up for an internet forum and complain about the neighborhood? Pardon my presumption, but it sounds like a big part of you really wants to live in Springfield ... and you have become bitter because the market has appreciated beyond what you think it's worth. Though frankly, I think you might find better outlets for your frustration than a forum full of people interested in urban development (some of whom have an active stake in Sprinfield's ascending prices).

However, I certainly understand what you are saying. Prices have gone up between 100-200% in the last four years alone, without many significant improvements to the area's infrastructure or cleanliness. No doubt that many developers and home-owners are asking too much for their properties. But that's the beauty of the free market. Either they can afford to hold onto the houses until someone buys them, or they will eventually lower prices. (I think the only time the free-market tends to fail a neighborhood is when absentee landlords hold onto decaying properties without the desire to improve them. The exact opposite is happening in Springfield.)

But Springfield is the definition of a Neighborhood in transition. There are very wealthy people living side by side with working class people living side by side with a peripheral crimial element. The utlimate goal (of most people involved) is to somehow clean-up and price-out the criminals and vagrants. Thus making the area attractive to middle-class home buyers; however, doing so without completely pricing out the working class/artists/etc.

It's a daunting challenge ... but frankly, I don't see it as a sign of regression. Bottom line is that Sprinfield is a far better place to be than it was 5 years ago, and it will be even better 5 years from now. Prices may be inflated, but that only speaks poorly of overzealous rehabers, not of the neighborhood.

[Britainny]

Predictably and assuming you are Springfield resident, you took my posting way too personally. No offense meant, truly.

First, I didn't know this thread was specific to only 'positive' input. I would have thought a not so positive reply would make for a more balanced thread. I understand people & their 'need' to feel that where they live is the 'best', I experience the same mentality with parents speaking of thir children's schools, etc. Nevertheless, I understand it's not nice having someone bash your turf but it wasn't meant to provoke, I assure you. I think my grumblings speak to a bigger problem with what is happening in downtown Jacksonville as a whole. Berkman and The Shipyards along with other projects are aimed at the wealthy sector. More needs to be done to attract the working class that might be interested in living and playing downtown. After all, a young person making 25 to 30,000 a year is far more likely to go out on the weekend & spend his money in bars, etc than a 65 year old retiree living in a fancy condo overlooking the river. For businesses to thrive downtown there must be demand and that begins with providing affordable apts, housing it the downtown area. I think Springfield is jumping on the bandwagon prematurely. I understand the pricing of the new projects because of the location & luxurious lifestyle but Springfield ?

In response to your comments about my sounding disgruntled because things may be too expensive now...you better believe it. I thought that was pretty clear in my posting. It's a sad thing when you can't afford the ghetto. I just have to wonder, with the median income for Jax being what it is and the small population, how long dontown revitalization will take?

My posting was just to let sellers & potential sellers in Springfield know that the current pricing is a joke to most people of a sane disposition. They are scaring potential residents away.

You never did answer my question asking why so many people are moving out of Springfield? That was another red flag to me.

[Captain Obvious]

Nope, I'm not a Springfield resident. And, in fact, I also would not live in Springfield right now, because the prices are too high for the current quality. So we basically agree. I was merely pointing out that your hostility against the neighborhood itself (as opposed to the prices) seemed misdirected, because otherwise why would you care enough to post (After all, no one is posting about how much Brentwood and Durkeville sucks and how we'd never live there.)

As to your question: people actually aren't moving out, as far as I know. All these homes for sale aren't exactly long-time residents leaving the neighborhood. They are investors who bought vacant houses, lots, or rental properties. Many rehabers own multiple houses (i.e. van horn), and all those SRG homes were built on totally vacant lots. I'm sure there must be certain individuals who bought houses recently, and are now re-selling. But that happens everywhere in Jax, even Mandarin, Riverside, and the Beaches. We are in a hot market. People want to flip their houses.

If anyone is leaving the neighborhood, it is the ultra-low income renters who had lived in the falling-apart houses, and squatters who previously inhabited the boarded-up ones. But if you don't count the squatters as "residents" I was under the strong impression that more people were moving in than out.

In particular, I notice the cars parked on the street. 10 years ago there were nothing but 15 year old used "ghetto" cars. Now there are brand new cars lining the streets, including luxury cars.

[Britainny]

'I was merely pointing out that your hostility against the neighborhood itself (as opposed to the prices) seemed misdirected, because otherwise why would you care enough to post (After all, no one is posting about how much Brentwood and Durkeville sucks and how we'd never live there.)'

I am not 'hostile' towards Springfield LOL. I was considering moving there remember? My comments were just real. Just because I'm not gushing about Springfield and talking about all of it's 'potential' like the people who have taken a risk and moved there, does that make me hostile? I like to see myself more as a realist. I cared enough to post because this is a thread 'specific' to Springfield' and I felt I had something worth saying. Perhaps my wording was a little too direct & I should have been a little more PC but why tip toe around, I had a gripe & now I've shared it.

Oh, and JAX INVESTOR I looked up what a TROLL is and you couldn't be more wrong. My posting was not to induce controversy.

Springfield has lots of nice trees.....see, I can be nice.

[bobliocatt]

After spendng the last 6 weeks or so driving around Springfield ( extensively), I have come to the conclusion that property owners  are either on the the substance (that can be acquired in copious amts in the area) or are just taking the mickey. Springfield is still Springfield after all.

    I was drawn back to the area as five years had passed since the last time I had checked it out and all though there seemed to be a few more homes that had been fixed up, not a lot had changed. SRG have been buying lots, building kit homes ( & selling at inflated prices to naive 'out of towners')& there are a couple of 'proposed' projects for the area but  overall, Springfield is eons away from being 'desirable'.

It is LONG LONG walk into downtown if you are brave enough to walk, Main St is years away from being the kind of place you can feel comfortable walking around at night. The streets & sidewalks on the East & Westside are in desperate shape and it  still has the feel of the 'hood' , make no bones about it... you get the picture.

All that being said, I was attracted to the architectural style of the homes & of course the sq footage. I told my very cynical husband  that it was a trade off; you live in a crappy area but get more house for your money..and 'hopefully' the area will improve and everyone will be happy. So, with an optimistic mind I ventured out & did some solid research & came away laughing..I found out that everything was ridiculously over priced. Homes were bought at auction a few years back for pennies on the dollar, some apparently for less than a $1000. These same people, after fixing them up a bit are trying to flip them for $200-300,000!  and forget it if you're thinking of fixing something up yourself, I got pricing on homes that looked like they would fall over if you blew on them and they were asking over $100,000 for those!  There were  ALOT of homes for sale...I wonder why? Most of them have been for sale for a long time too. I get the impression that the people who live there think that Springfield has 'arrived' and you can't get anybody to speak objectively about the area at all.  Bottom line....at the current pricing we would NEVER move there. I have spoke to other people that feel the same way. It's a shame because the current price gauging is turing people away & will inevitably slow the growth of the area.  Why is everyone moving out anyway??

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I feel your frustration with the over inflated prices in, not only Springfield, but also downtown, Riverside and parts of San Marco (east of San Marco Blvd). Unfortunately, this problem exists in every city and in every neighborhood experiencing mass re-investment. You would love Springfield's prices if you checked out what sales in similar hoods, in other cities like Tampa and Miami are going for.

We can talk a good game, but in reality, a true lively urban atmosphere will never develop in Jacksonville, without a bigger effort from the city to ensure more affordable housing developments. IMO, this means the city has to make it a top priority to provide residential incentives only for affordable residential projects (ex. 100k - 200k max) instead of giving money to the Peninsula's, Berkman's & San Marco Place's of the world.

With that being said, if you get creative there are stilll several good opportunities to cash in and enjoy in this area. Depending on what your strengths are, these opportunities could range from renovating a smaller older house or turning a small old commercial building into a loft, to buying a small lot and having a house or duplex built there yourself, instead of paying $300k for a restored home or $250k for one of SRG's infill houses.

As far as Springfield, in general, if you think prices are high now (which they are), they're only going to continue to go up, as more restorations and infill projects are completed . As for its present condition, expect a swift change, in the next five years. Several projects getting underway, like 8th & Pearl and the streetscape projects (Main & 8th) will completely change the look of these areas. If you're still interested in investing in Springfield, I'd advise you to look for property on the Eastside of Main, since its still a lot cheaper than the West side of Main. If Springfield is still too high, I'd look at Murray Hill, which is a decent walkable urban hood with nice architecture, or possibly Brooklyn, although I admit its still a good 5-10 years from experiencing the boom Springfield is enjoying.

[Britainny]

I don't compare Springfield with Riverside & San Marco because those are desirable areas & I think in most cases are worthy of the asking prices.

I have not noticed any difference in pricing on either the West or East side of Springfield even though I was advised to look on the East. I'm not sure that I agree with you that property is going to get more expensive, I think current prices will be lowered & then increase again. I've seen the same houses on the market for ages, people are just not prepared to put that kind of money down in that area yet. It' not a matter of being able to afford it, it's about value for your money.

Thanks for the advice though & i agree the city has it all backwards. I'm not going to stop looking, there are still 'bargains' to be found, I'll just have to be patient that's all.

[bobliocatt]

Maybe east of Post Street, in Riverside. However, the areas close to I-10 and the railroad tracks, tend to be overpriced as well. Even though they're located within the "Riverside/Avondale Historic District", most of the area lacks the density and quality architecture found in Springfield.

Unfortunately, we missed the boat when most investors jumped in about two years ago and purchased several of these homes and vacant lots for around 5k. Anyway, regardless of the current over inflated prices, there are deals out there, you just have to know how to find them and be ready to jump on them when the chance comes. You also need to have a vision of what a property can become, once you invest your money in it, and not what it is in its present condition.

Maybe you can be one to find a way to develop a small, yet nice & affordable project for most working citizens, including yourself. I think we both agree that there's a big market for it, if it can be done. Maybe this involves buying a small plot of land and developing condos on it, instead of a single family home. By selling the other units, you could possibly live for free in the one you save for yourself. If you don't mind me asking, what do you think restored houses, in Springfield, should sell for? Would you buy in the area, if the average cost/sf was the same as buying a suburban tract home in Argyle, Northern St. Johns County or Southside?

[Britainny]

I have children & looking for a single family home. A condo is not an option besides isn't Symbiosis going to be doing something along those lines?

What do I think restored homes in Springfield should be worth? I honestly don't know. I do know that the prices should reflect the quality of the area. In my mind there should be a trade off, meaning if I have to live in an area where I'm not comfortable letting my boys play out in the street, I should be getting more sq ft for my money. If I'm not near a decent grocery store & my neighbors house is falling apart, the price of my home should reflect that. For example, a house I looked at not long ago was/is selling for around 230,000 ( east side, deep lot, around 2600 sq ft). I went by expecting a livable dwelling - the house was stripped down to the frame, not a scrap of drywall in sight, no flooring but new windows, AC & electric (I presume). The asking price was AS IS. I know this man paid less than 100,000 for it in 2003 & I don't see the justification in his asking price considering all the work that needs to be done before in can even be moved into. My home in Arlington did not appreciate that much in 18 months..& I can take a shower & cook in it! I found this throughout the area & it just turned me off. It seemed that people were just trying it on & getting a little greedy. I would love to live in a bigger old home but in that area at those prices it's just not worth it to me.

We've started looking towards the beaches now....but I will watch closely at what Springfield is doing, see if that Symbiosis project comes to fruition.

[vicupstate]

Predictably and assuming you are Springfield resident, you took my posting way too personally. No offense meant, truly.

        First, I didn't know this thread was specific to only 'positive' input. I would have thought a not so positive reply would make for a more balanced thread. I understand people & their 'need' to feel that where they live is the 'best', I experience the same mentality with parents speaking of thir children's schools, etc.  Nevertheless, I understand it's not nice having someone bash your turf but it wasn't meant to provoke, I assure you.  I think my grumblings speak to a bigger problem with what is happening in downtown Jacksonville as a whole. Berkman and The Shipyards along with other projects are aimed at the wealthy sector. More needs to be done to attract the working class that might be interested in living and playing downtown. After all, a young person making 25 to 30,000 a year is far more likely to go out on the weekend & spend his money in bars, etc than a 65 year old retiree living in a fancy condo overlooking the river. For businesses to thrive downtown there must be demand and that begins with providing affordable apts, housing it the downtown area. I think Springfield is jumping on the bandwagon prematurely. I understand the pricing of the new projects because of the location & luxurious lifestyle but Springfield ? 

          In response to your comments about my sounding disgruntled because things may be too expensive now...you better believe it. I thought that was pretty clear in my posting. It's a sad thing when you can't afford the ghetto.  I just have to wonder, with the median income for Jax being what it is and the small population, how long dontown revitalization will take?

            My posting was just to let sellers & potential sellers in Springfield know that the current pricing is a joke to most people of a sane disposition. They are scaring potential residents away.

          You never did answer my question asking why so many people are moving out of Springfield? That was another red flag to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

According to the post-counter, this is my 566th post. This could easy be my longest, as I have lots of things to say in response to Britainny's post. For space considerations, I will bullet point SOME of my opinions.

** I understand your frustrations regarding prices in Springfield. I have followed Real Estate in Jacksonville for over 10 years and longer than that in several other cities. The pattern is so familiar. First, an area is identified by a city, or a grass-roots effort of residents emerges to improve a neighborhood. The going sometimes is slow at first, often in fits and starts, but at some point, the area reaches a turning point, gets hot, and all of a sudden the prices take a big leap. The key is to take make your investment before that happens. That will maximize your reward, but also is the riskiest option. The risk is that the reward may take longer than you planned. Like the stock market or any other investment there is a direct correlation between risk and reward. The 300-400% profits have largely already been made in Springfield, but their is still opportunity for a very respectable gain. The alternative is to be one of the pioneers in a another area such as the Eastside, New Springfield, Brentwood, Brooklyn, etc.

** I could show you at least a dozen "Springfield's" in Atlanta. Simply put, people would rather live in a transitional neighborhood and have a short commute, than live in the suburbs and devote 1-2 hours a day behind the wheel. Those neighborhoods have prices that make Springfield look cheap, and they are no better, in fact often worse looking in appearance.

** I time my driving in large cities to avoid rush hour, but I once got caught in Atlantic Boulevard at 5:00 on a weekday. I would rather have a tooth drilled than do that again. 70,000 people work in downtown Jacksonville, and Springfield is MORE convenient than either Riverside or San Marco to downtown. No one might WALK from Springfield to Downtown, but it the shortest, easiest DRIVE there is.

** Five-six years ago, I don't remember a single NEW construction house in Springfield. I don't know how many houses SRG has built so far, but it is at least 2-3 dozen. I know they plan to build at least 150. That will be 150 vacant lots gone and replaced with residents. Bank of America has also sponsored construction of several new single family homes.

** Other changes in the last 5 years include:

+ Rehab of an abandoned school into 15 lofts -- 1951 Market

+ Streetscaping of Main Street from 1st to 4th street with more to come

+ Streetscaping of 8th Street from I-95 to Main, with East 8th St coming soon

+ The opening of two new restaurants, Boomtown and Henrietta's. They also host numerous community and art related events to the neighborhood.

+ Other businesses such as Springfield Bakery & Deli and Springfield Emporiam have opened as well.

+ Epicurean Market opened, it is a specialty shop with groceries/ antiques/ gifts/ juice bar/ salads,sandwiches,deserts. They also has Jazz nights weekly.

+ Demolition of several non-historic structures at 8th & Pearl, which will be replaced with an $8 million mixed use project.

+ The Klutho building on Main has transformed from a burned out shell to a beautifully restored office building.

+ Symbiosis and Fresh Ministries have each completed at least 25-30 rehabs each. Not to mention numerous individual rehabs completed doing the same time frame.

+ A major accounting firm is doing a major rehab/expansion to a vacant building on Laura Street in Springfield.

+ Heritage Bed & Breakfast, a nicely done B&B opened.

+ National chains like CVS and Publix are scouting the area.

Based on my observations of similiar areas of Columbia, Charlotte, Atlanta, Charleston and other cities, Springfield has reached the "no stopping it now" phase, where complete restoration is very likely. The only question is how long will it take.

** Ten years ago renovated houses in Springfield were few and far between, but now their is at least a couple on virtually every block. Several blocks are almost totally done now.

** Personally, I have not noticed a change in the number of properties for sale in the last 10 years. Realtor.com pulls up about 13-15 pages every time I put in the 32206 zip code. In an established neighborhood, like Mandarin, a large number of houses on the market might indicate a distressed market. In a transitional area, it often is a positive as it means the slum lords, have stopped "holding" their properties, because the profit is now significant enough to sell.

I could write a few more chapters here, but my basic point is that your assessment of the area seems to stem from a "the glass is half empty" view when just a few years ago, the glass was almost completely empty. My guess is, you wish you had bought five years ago. I can relate. I wish I had to.

[Britainny]

Your post read more like an SPAR brochure than a collection of your opinions.

When you speak of comparable neighborhoods in other cities like Atlanta it's not a fair comparision because Atlanta is Atlanta after all with a thriving metro hub & an exciting urban atmosphere, Jacksonville is still just Jacksonville with a derelict downtown, at present, so the whole 'downtown living' appeal isn't there yet ( if your trying to sell Springfield). But you if you work downtown I can see the convenience of a short commute to work. Those factors don't come into play in my situation, I was drawn to the style & size of the homes, that's all. I'm all 'ranched out' You better believe I wish I'd bought one of those houses for $5000 at auction in the 90's ...who wouldn't be kicking themselves. Kudos to those 'in the know' back then. Again, my gripe is with the owners who picked up their homes just a year ago , 2003, 2004 & after doing nothing or very little with them are trying to flip them for excessive profits.

[Whitey]

Like it or not, people are paying these prices and the houses are selling. Just becase you don't think they are worth that much, it doesn't mean that they are overpriced for everybody else. Last time I checked, they are not making anymore houses that were built in the late 1800's to early 1900's, it's called suplly and demand.

For the record, a lot of the for sale signs up in yards are by locals who bought several houses over the last few decades, not just the last few years.

[vicupstate]

Your post read more like an SPAR brochure than  a collection of your opinions. 

When you speak of comparable neighborhoods in other cities like Atlanta it's not a fair comparision because Atlanta is Atlanta after all with a thriving metro hub & an exciting urban atmosphere, Jacksonville is still just Jacksonville with a derelict downtown, at present, so the whole 'downtown living' appeal isn't there yet ( if your trying to sell Springfield). But you if you work downtown I can see the convenience of a short commute to work. Those factors don't come into play in my situation, I was drawn to the style & size of the homes, that's all. I'm all 'ranched out'    You better believe I wish I'd bought one of those houses for $5000 at auction in the 90's ...who wouldn't be kicking themselves. Kudos to those 'in the know' back then. Again, my gripe is with the owners who picked up their homes just a year ago , 2003, 2004 & after nothing or very little with them are trying to flip them for excessive profits.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The opinions are my own, I just happen to be an urbanist and an optimist (the glass is half full) kind of person. I look at trends not just the current situation. The trend is pretty unmistakeable to me. Regardless, I would rather be trying to build something up, than tear it down.

I have also lived in a neighborhood similiar to Springfield and know the mindset of people who think they wouldn't be caught dead there until every last single house has been renovated and every sidewalk crack is patched. That's their prerogative, but they shouldn't complain that the prices are high, if they wait until that happens. Real Estate is like any other investment, value is placed as much on EXPECTATIONS as current bottomline profit. A stock can skyrocket on a potential patent even though it is losing money, for example. If it was simple and reliable, everyone would be rich.

As for Atlanta, let me tell you, Atlanta proper was dying of urban decay and white flight as recently as the mid 1980's. Remember the child killings? I do.

I went to a convention in downtown Atlanta (Westin Peachtree Plaza) in 1983 and it made Springfield (or downtown Jacksonville) look like Beverly Hills. You couldn't walk on the sidewalk without stepping over a homeless person. No one, and I do mean no one, walked outside the hotel in the daytime, without being in a large group. I'm sure the hotel doorman would have stopped us if we had even thought of leaving at night.

Atlanta has come a long way since then. I have walked those same streets alone even at dusk, without anxiety. The point is, Atlanta changed and so has/is Jacksonville, and so are countless other urban areas all across this country, including cities far smaller and slower growing than Jacksonville.

Jacksonville downtown isn't where I want it to be, but it to has vastly improved and continues to do so. If enough residents opened there mind to its possibilities, and let go of their preceived notions, it would happen a lot faster.

[Britainny]

'I have also lived in a neighborhood similiar to Springfield and know the mindset of people who think they wouldn't be caught dead there until every last single house has been renovated and every sidewalk crack is patched. That's their prerogative, but they shouldn't complain that the prices are high, if they wait until that happens. '

That's just it though, I was prepared to live there with the 'expectation' that it would improve gradually over time, with all the street cracks ( & other 'crack' associations). I wouldn't be one of the people complaining about high prices in a new & improved Springfield. You get what you pay for.. right?

Again, IMO the improvements in the area at present are so minimal that even with the expectation that it will improve, current pricing is grossly inflated & I predict that prices will lower in the not so distant future, just to give the area another kick start.

Also, why do you think downtown has 'vastly' improved? I'm not being negative I just don't see it.

[vicupstate]

Try this link,

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2669

I have also seen Riverside prices explode as well. The Villas at St. Johns opened up and it's been on fire ever seen. Publix came and that was still more gas on the fire. Villa Riva did the same thing. The reality is, 97% of the area looks exactly the same as it did before all of that started. Consumer tastes have changed, the demand curve shifted. 1661 Riverside prices are higher than high-rise riverfront condos. Mentally, it is difficult to fathom the prices both Springfield and Riverside are getting. But that is what has happened. Unless the demand shifts back the opposite direction, I don't see prices going lower. The rapid rise may taper, and the % change will slow. It's easy to make a big gain when you paid 10,000 for something, after all.

[Britainny]

almost all of those projects with the exception of a couple are proposed projects, & you said downtown had vastly improved. No doubt in about 10/15 yrs you could say that but certainly not at the moment.

[93sportie]

Very interesting read gang,while I agree with Britainny on how shamefull these real estate prices have gotton here in Springfield I have to disagree with the minimal changes statement.I'm into my 7th year here(hard to believe). I live here so maybe i'm just more used to my surroundings more so than someone from outside the hood.I really did think that in 10 years that Springfield HD would be the coolest place in town,but now, me thinks it will take a bit more time than that,after all it did not go downhill overnight.

I love the being close to town for ballgames, concerts & work and above all,I love my house.I hate the litter,the drugs and the traffic it creates.I do my share of picking up trash and telling people to move it off my block.Never really been fearfull here except in the beginning when I had a few crack houses on my block.They have since gone and all but 1 house out of 12 are in some state of renovation.

I have seen a lot of for sale signs lately but i've noticed that seems to happen from time to time.I just don't know why,exactly.

I'm was born and raised in Atlanta and I remember when there wasn't s**t in downtown Atlanta.The grandparents lived over by Grant Park and sold that house for 45000. in 1972.I hear you can't touch them now for under 400k.

Just a few rambling thoughts on the discussion.

[Urban_Legend]

I believe that Springfield will become desirable, but it'll take a little longer, since it's not on the river. That's what the other urban neighborhoods have that Springfield doesn't. But alot of these new mix-use projects and streetscaping will take place in 2005-2006.

[Britainny]

Wow 93 Sportie what a breath of fresh air you are! & I appreciate the comments coming straight from a resident. Thankyou for being objective & honest, it's a first from someone living in the area. Everyone else (realtors, contractors & residents alike) all gush gush & it's hard to get anyone to say how it really is. I guess you are one of the pioneers of the area...hats off to you!

It's interesting to hear you say that you thought the area would have improved at a faster rate & I was thinking the same thing myself while looking at all the For Sale signs, I was wondering if people were getting impatient & wanted out because they had made their money & were ready to move on. After all, these houses were cash cows were they not?

Bye the bye.... Where do you shop for groceries? and what are your thoughts on the SRG homes being built in the area. I have wondered how well they will sell compared to the original homes in 10 years time....they won't be as appealing will they?

[93sportie]

Wow 93 Sportie what a breath of fresh air you are! & I appreciate the comments coming straight from a resident. Thankyou for being objective & honest, it's a first from someone living in the area. Everyone else (realtors, contractors & residents alike) all gush gush & it's hard to get anyone to say how it really is. I guess you are one of the pioneers of the area...hats off to you!

There are many people before me that have kept the Springfield dream alive.

It's interesting to hear you say that you thought the area would have improved at a faster rate & I was thinking the same thing myself while looking at all the For Sale signs, I was wondering if people were getting impatient & wanted out because they had made their money & were ready to move on. After all, these houses were cash cows were they not?

There are probably as many answers to that question as there are for sale signs.I will say I have seen a few for sale that in no way in my lifetime I would pay that kind of money for what they were selling.If somebody does,hey,thats fine by me.

I'm sure there is plenty of greed out there.Many of the properties were or are being bought from the city for the back taxes.These of course have been abandoned or given up by the previous owner.The new owner then slaps a coat of paint on and tears out a couple rotten boards and TADA ya gotta house under renovation.There IS a great deal of superb restoration work going here.RESTORATION vs remodeling cost are very expensive.

Bye the bye.... Where do you shop for groceries?

I'm a Publix kinda guy,so either Atlantic@Bartram or Riverside.

and what are your thoughts on the SRG homes being built in the area. I have wondered how well they will sell compared to the original homes in 10 years time....they won't be as appealing will they?

They are not a historic home,so IMO no,it does not appeal to me,although being in a historic district they may receive some of those benifits.

I like the homes in general,they seem well built and look pretty good along side a 100 yo house.There the best infill I have seen thus far

[vicupstate]

almost all of those projects with the exception of a couple are proposed projects, & you said downtown had vastly improved. No doubt in about 10/15 yrs you could say that but certainly not at the moment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The thread is for forumers that are watching the latest news, they already know what has happened in the past, they post the "new" info. which obviously starts as something proposed.

For vast improvement: look at these comparisons

Hemming Plaza was 90% homeless 10 years ago, now they are a small minority as city and federal workers have taken over. Before the St. James building was renovated, virtually every building that faced the Plaza was vacant, if not boarded up. The vacant/occupied ratio has now totally switched, now there is a musuem, jeweler, UPS store, eateries and in a few weeks, a new library. The city has closed on the Haverty building and it too will soon be occupied.

Compare the old coliseum to the new one,

Compare the old baseball field to the new one,

Compare the old Gator Bowl to Alltel Stadium,

Compare the current libary to the one that will soon open,

Compare Berkman Plaza to the jail that use to be there.

Compare 11 East Forsyth to the vacant office building it use to be,

Compare Knight Lofts to the unkept, mostly vacant building it use to be,

Compare Home Street Lofts to the vacant building it use to be,

Compare Parks at the Cathedral to the vacant lot is use to be,

Compare London Bridge, Sterlings, LaCena, Burrito Gallery, The Japanese place in the Knight building, Eclate and other establishments that opened in vacant or underutilized buildings,

Compare the Dyal-Upchurch building to the vacant building it use to be,

Compare the 100 N. Laura building to the vacant building it use to be,

Compare the Elks building to the vacant building it use to be,

Compare the Carlington and Lerner buildings to the construction sites they are now. They aren't proposed, their under construction, same thing for The Strand and San Marco Place which have both started construction. And the Pennisula will soon follow. Riverplace Blvd will complete transform in the next few months.

Compare the unsightly electric generating station that is now gone from the Southbank. Same thing for the warehouses at the Shipyards. The mere absence of those eyesores is an improvement.

Is the tranformation complete? Certainly not. Do I want more affordable housing downtown, absolutely. Has the city made mistakes along the way, of course. But if you are looking to make an investor's profit in Real Estate, you have to see the trends before everyone else in the universe can plainly see them. You can't go on a two week vacation and expect the city to change in the time you were gone. It takes years. Although Atlanta is exploding with revivial, that breakneck pace took a while to take hold.

BTW, if there are more houses for sale in Springfield than previously, did it occur to you that the Super Bowl might have something to do with that? Boston and Philadelphia are both more expensive and colder than Jax after all. Personally, I have not noticed any difference.

Why don't you take in the Artwalk on March 2nd, you might be surprised at what you see.

[Britainny]

The thread is for forumers that are watching the latest news, they already know what has happened in the past, they post the "new" info. which obviously starts as something proposed.

Well, excuse me. I was merely responding to your link that took me to the old posting that listed mostly propsed projects. In the context of my question which was asking "how has downtown vastly improved" your link didn't offer much.

I'm well aware of the improvements the city has made downtown thus far but it's just a start & a small one at that. Downtown needs bars, retail, etc all the stuff that makes a downtown area thrive. I do not think that downtown has vastly improved becuase of how badly it lacks in those areas.We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one I'm afraid.

[bobliocatt]

Downtown needs bars, retail, etc all the stuff that makes a downtown area thrive. I do not think that downtown has vastly improved becuase of how badly it lacks in those areas.We'll just have to agree to disagree on this one I'm afraid.

These things (bars, retail, etc.) are beginning to pop up very quickly around downtown. In the past couple of months, several establishments have opened. These include The Mudville Grill (sports bar), The Burrito Gallery, The Twisted Martini (martini bar), Mongo's Flat Hot Grill (restaurant), Big Pete's Pizzaria, Improv Jacksonville (comedy club), Ieyasu of Toyko, Jag's Cafe, Tiara (womens shoes & apparel) and Vaccaro (women's apparel).

Since the success of the Super Bowl, there have been reports that, there are at least three leases are in the works for different chains, such as Starbucks, Atlanta Bread & Carraba's. Also a two story bar is expected to open in the Suddath building, after the success of a temporary one, during super bowl week. It looks like Bay Street will very well become downtown's version of Tampa's Ybor City or Orlando's Orange Avenue, quicker than expected.

Like you said, these places are the type of establishments needed to have a vibrant downtown. Judging from the past couple of months, they're coming, now its up for local residents to get out and support them, instead of spending all our money in far out places like Tinseltown or Orange Park.