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PC vs MAC

M. Brown

By M. Brown
in The Coffee House

PC vs MAC  

104 members have voted

  1. 1. PC vs MAC

    • PC
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    • MAC
      47

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Neo City

Neo

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^^ it's about time... Back on System 7.0 there was a shareware command line program you could download.

I really like the concept of the Journaled File System... I've seen it run on Linux and on OS/2 Warp Server 4.5. What kind of file system does MacOS X use? Is it using an ext2/ext3 file system yet, JFS, or is it still on HFS?

It's using HFS Plus since the move to OSX.

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ezcheese Hamlet

ezcheese

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I underdstand OSX give yous a linux command prompt.  (as it is built on top of linux) A much superior command prompt to the one in DOS.  Linux's filesystems and file handling are light years ahead of anything that MS has on its platforms.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The core of OS X is Darwin, which is a variation based on BSD Unix. The preferred apple file system is HFS +. Since OS X is built on a Unix base, you can run ported unix apps and use the command line. I still sometimes use Vi.

Here's a screenshot of the OS X Command line. In this shot I am running the "top" command which shows all the services and apps running on my computer.

top1.jpg

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ezcheese Hamlet

ezcheese

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That's nice... too bad there isn't an x86 port of MacOS, or at least of port of the Finder for the X11 GUI in Linux.

So I assume that now you can write shell scripts to perform certain tasks... that's exciting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is interesting is that for the past several years, Apple has been developing an x86 version of OS X. They have a semi-functioning system, which sprang from the rocky times Apple was having with Motorola. Before IBM started selling Apple their PPC chips, Apple was considering stepping over to the dark side because Motorola was just not delivering.

In regards to the Finder and the Aqua GUI, the thing that makes OS X special compared to Unix and Linux distributions, is all the qualities that make it a good desktop OS. The GUI is a huge part of that and Apple knows that with all their little tweaks, Mac OS X is way ahead of Linux and Unix in terms of usability for the average person, yet it still retains all the power available with a Unix core.

As far as scripts and stuff, yeah you can do pretty much anything in OS X that you can do in Linux or Unix. You can run X11R6 side by side with Aqua, and you can run scripts all day long. I serve all the pictures I post here off of my computer with Apache. I have scheduled some regular system maintenance with cron too.

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M. Brown Burg

M. Brown

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^ I don't really understand what your asking. 2.5Ghz is just the speed of the CPU. Megahertz wize P4 is the Fastest. AMD don't run as fast as P4s interms of Megahertz but the AMD 64 outperforms. I only think the g5 goes up to 2.5gigs. MAC says there g5 is faster than Pentiums. Did I answer it?

Anyway I reformated my computer and upgraded to xp pro from xp home and I like it.

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Neo City

Neo

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Stupid questions: What should 2.5 Ghz mean to a computer buyer? And How can one relate a P4 to an AMD to a G5 in terms of clock speed?

Take a little more than a grain of salt, but not much more. ;)

Speed is not just in megahertz but how efficient the design is and other factors involved. One major bottleneck in computer design is memory speed. The bus simply can't handle what the processor can spit out so there's a cheat that's always been there, cache. What you want is as much memory as close to the processor as possible. I'm sure you've heard of L1, L2 & L3 cache, it's all on-die and sits right next to the processor on the chip. This way it doesn't have to travel across the bus to RAM. Thing is, it's expensive. Typically L1 cache is a very small amount. I don't follow processors as much as I used to but I suppose it's still ~16k of on die L1? L2 and L3 cache see more storage though. It may not sound like much at 1MB or 2MB but go into the BIOS and disable it and see how fast your computer is then! ;-) The more on die cache you have the more efficient the processor will be. There are other factors but this is a biggie, it's something the G5 does well in. It gives you a lot of on die memory and the design is near perfect. It's the most efficient desktop processor, hands down.

Oh, I wanted to touch on dual processors for a second. Many say the fastest desktop is the Apple dual G5. Keep in mind that to take advantage of the 2nd processor the operating system and applications you want to run need to be multi-threaded. OSX for instance is multi-threaded and will take advantage of the second processor, same goes for XP.

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M. Brown Burg

M. Brown

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XP Pro, Windows 2000/NT and Windows Server 2003 are the only Windows OS that are multi-theaded. XP Home isn't.

My got a copy of Windows Server 2003 and we are going to put together this old dual processor celeron system we never put together. We are going to overclock both CPUs to get a gig out of them.

And also I believe 32bit processors should be able to run 64bit programs in the future just not as fast.

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MathNerd05 Hamlet

MathNerd05

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Take a little more than a grain of salt, but not much more.  ;)

Speed is not just in megahertz but how efficient the design is and other factors involved.  One major bottleneck in computer design is memory speed.  The bus simply can't handle what the processor can spit out so there's a cheat that's always been there, cache.  What you want is as much memory as close to the processor as possible.  I'm sure you've heard of L1, L2 & L3 cache, it's all on-die and sits right next to the processor on the chip.  This way it doesn't have to travel across the bus to RAM.  Thing is, it's expensive.  Typically L1 cache is a very small amount.  I don't follow processors as much as I used to but I suppose it's still ~16k of on die L1?  L2 and L3 cache see more storage though.  It may not sound like much at 1MB or 2MB but go into the BIOS and disable it and see how fast your computer is then! ;-)  The more on die cache you have the more efficient the processor will be.  There are other factors but this is a biggie, it's something the G5 does well in.  It gives you a lot of on die memory and the design is near perfect.  It's the most efficient desktop processor, hands down.

Oh, I wanted to touch on dual processors for a second.  Many say the fastest desktop  is the Apple dual G5.  Keep in mind that to take advantage of the 2nd processor the operating system and applications you want to run need to be multi-threaded.  OSX for instance is multi-threaded and will take advantage of the second processor, same goes for XP.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm trying to learn about all this, but I just feel so darned ignorant! So what percentage of programs are multi-threaded? And a processor with a higher Hz but smaller cache may not run as fast as a processor with lower Hz but larger cache?

Why do I get the impression that this Hz thing is a gimmick to make buyers go "oooh!" and "aaah!" over something that doesn't seem to be that important?

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Neo City

Neo

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So what percentage of programs are multi-threaded? And a processor with a higher Hz but smaller cache may not run as fast as a processor with lower Hz but larger cache?

Why do I get the impression that this Hz thing is a gimmick to make buyers go "oooh!" and "aaah!" over something that doesn't seem to be that important?

You get that feeling because it's the truth. It's why Intel is still the "leader" of sorts in sales because they have the higher Hz rating, which has been embedded in consumers' as the mark of speed in computers. The type of RAM you use, bus speed, cache, Hz rating, etc. all account for the speed of a computer so saying a computer with a higher Hz rating is faster is foolish at best.

Just use some general technical common sense in figuring out what apps are multithreaded. Anything that requires a lot of processing power is probably multi-threaded (with the exception of games in most cases). Applications like AutoCAD, Photoshop, Maya, etc. are going to be multi-threaded. Microsoft Notepad and Solitaire will not. :P

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monsoon Gigalopolis

monsoon

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As I mentioned in the other thread, my SO went to look at Powerbooks and decided they were not worth the money, and they looked like toys as well. I think he said the only thing missing was the "Hello Kitty" emblem. :rofl: (I am only the messenger here.)

So his Thinkpad (T42) came in today and it is quite impressive. Looks very professional, is extremely well constructed (as compared to the powerbooks), thin and light, and the battery tech is good for 6 hours. And the magnesium based case has very good "feel" to it compared to the cheap plastic found on most laptops including the powerbooks. This is the only laptop that I have seen which includes the track point mouse (which I like) but the thumb pad mouse as well.

This laptop also contains IBM's exlusive "airbag" technology. Drop the Thinkpad and a gravity sensor detects this and immediately shuts down the machine before it can hit the floor which protects the disk and most importantly, your data. Most likely the machine will be fine if dropped from counter height due to the construction, the airbag technology and the case material. Drop a powerbook and you have a bunch of useless little powerbooks. :P

Because of this, IBM T series machines automatically come with a 3 year warranty and you don't have to deal with idiots in retail stores either. Instead warranty service is handled by the same people that fix laptops for IBM's corporate customers.

Remember when paying for a laptop, its a lot more than just processor speed, memory and video. IBM has done its homework on the T series.

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ezcheese Hamlet

ezcheese

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As I mentioned in the other thread, my SO went to look at Powerbooks and decided they were not worth the money, and they looked like toys as well.  I think he said the only thing missing was the "Hello Kitty" emblem.    :rofl:    (I am only the messenger here.) 

So his Thinkpad (T42) came in today and it is quite impressive.  Looks very professional, is extremely well constructed (as compared to the powerbooks), thin and light, and the battery tech is good for 6 hours.  And the magnesium based case has very good "feel" to it compared to the cheap plastic found on most laptops including the powerbooks.  This is the only laptop that I have seen which includes the track point mouse (which I like) but the thumb pad mouse as well. 

This laptop also contains IBM's exlusive "airbag" technology.  Drop the Thinkpad and a gravity sensor detects this and immediately shuts down the machine before it can hit the floor which protects the disk and most importantly, your data.  Most likely the machine will be fine if dropped from counter height due to the construction, the airbag technology and the case material.  Drop a powerbook and you have a bunch of useless little powerbooks.  :P 

Because of this, IBM T series machines automatically come with a 3 year warranty and you don't have to deal with idiots in retail stores either.  Instead warranty service is  handled by the same people that fix laptops for IBM's corporate customers.   

Remember when paying for a laptop, its a lot more than just processor speed, memory and video.  IBM has done its homework on the T series.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By the way you're talking about Powerbooks, I wonder if you have even seen one in person. :rolleyes:

Powerbook enclosures are made of an aluminum alloy, and here are a few other specs. ;)

Powerbook

Technical Specifications

Processor and Memory

* 12-inch models

o 1.33GHz PowerPC G4 processor with Velocity Engine, 512K SRAM on-chip L2 cache, 167MHz system bus

o 256MB of PC2700 (333MHz) DDR SDRAM; one open SO-DIMM slot; support for up to 1.25GB

* 15-inch models

o 1.33GHz or 1.5GHz PowerPC G4 processor with Velocity Engine, 512K SRAM on-chip L2 cache, 167MHz system bus

o 256MB or 512MB of PC2700 (333MHz) DDR SDRAM; two SO-DIMM slots support up to 2GB

* 17-inch model

o 1.5GHz PowerPC G4 processor with Velocity Engine, 512K SRAM on-chip L2 cache, 167MHz system bus

o 512MB of PC2700 (333MHz) DDR SDRAM; two SO-DIMM slots support up to 2GB

Storage (1)

* 60GB 4200-rpm Ultra ATA/100 hard drive (12-inch models)

* 60GB or 80GB 4200-rpm Ultra ATA/100 hard drive (15-inch models)

* 80GB 4200-rpm Ultra ATA/100 hard drive (17-inch model)

* 80GB 5400-rpm Ultra ATA/100 hard drive available as CTO option on all models (available only from the online Apple Store)

* One of the following slot-loading optical drives

o Combo drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW): reads DVDs at up to 8x speed, writes CD-R discs at up to 24x speed, writes CD-RW discs at up to 16x speed, reads CDs at up to 24x speed (12- and 15-inch models)

o SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW): writes DVD-R discs at up to 4x speed, reads DVDs at up to 8x speed, writes CD-R discs at up to 16x speed, writes CD-RW discs at up to 8x speed, reads CDs at up to 24x speed

Communications

* Built-in 54-Mbps AirPort Extreme wireless networking (based on 802.11g standard; Wi-Fi Certified for 802.11g and 802.11b interoperability) (2)

* Built-in Bluetooth 1.1

* Built-in 10/100BASE-T Ethernet (RJ-45 connector) (12-inch models)

* Built-in 10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet (RJ-45 connector) (15-inch and 17-inch models)

* Built-in 56K V.92 modem (RJ-11 connector) (3)

Expansion

* One FireWire 400 (IEEE 1394a) port at up to 400 Mbps (5)

* One FireWire 800 (IEEE 1394b) port at up to 800 Mbps (15-inch and 17-inch models) (5)

* Two USB 2.0 ports at up to 480 Mbps

* One PC Card/CardBus slot supporting one Type I or Type II card (15-inch and 17-inch models)

Display

* 12.1-inch (diagonal) TFT display (12-inch models)

o Support for millions of colors at 1024 x 768 pixel resolution

o Support for resolution scaling to 800 x 600 pixel and 640 x 480 pixel resolution with millions of colors

* 15.2-inch (diagonal) TFT display (15-inch models)

o Support for millions of colors at 1280 x 854 pixel resolution

o Support for resolutions of 1280 x 854 (native), 1152 x 768, 896 x 600, 720 x 480, and 640 x 480 pixels at 3:2 aspect ratio; 1024 x 768, 800 x 600 and 640 x 480 pixels at 4:3 aspect ratio

* 17-inch (diagonal) TFT display (17-inch model)

o Support for millions of colors at 1440 x 900 pixel resolution

o Supported resolutions: 1440 x 900 (native), 1152 x 720, 1024 x 768, 1024 x 640 and 800 x 600 pixels at 16:10 aspect ratio; 1024 x 768, 800 x 600 and 640 x 480 pixels at 4:3 aspect ratio

Video and graphics support

* NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 graphics processor with AGP 4X support and 64MB of DDR SDRAM video memory (12-inch models)

o Dual display and video mirroring: Simultaneously supports up to 1024 x 768 pixels on the built-in display and up to 2048 x 1536 pixels on an external display, both at millions of colors (7)

* ATI Mobility Radeon 9700 graphics processor with AGP 4X support and 64MB of DDR SDRAM video memory, optional 128MB of video memory on 1.5GHz (15- and 17-inch models)

o Dual display and video mirroring: Simultaneously supports up to 1280 x 854 pixels on the built-in display and up to 2048 x 1536 pixels on an external display, both at millions of colors (7)

* ADC output using optional Apple DVI to ADC Adapter (6)

* Mini-DVI port (12-inch models)

* DVI output using included mini-DVI to DVI adapter (12-inch models)

* VGA output using included mini-DVI to VGA adapter (12-inch models)

* S-video and composite video output using mini-DVI to video adapter (sold separately) (12-inch models)

* DVI output port (15-inch and 17-inch models)

* VGA output using included DVI to VGA adapter (15-inch and 17-inch models)

* S-video output port (15-inch and 17-inch models)

* Composite video output using included S-video to composite adapter (15-inch and 17-inch models)

Audio

* Audio line in (minijack)

* Headphone out (minijack)

* Built-in stereo speakers with midrange-enhancing third speaker (12-inch and 15-inch models)

* Two built-in stereo speakers (17-inch model)

* Internal omnidirectional microphone

Battery and power

* 50-watt-hour lithium-ion battery (with integrated charge indicator LEDs) providing up to 5 hours of battery life (12-inch models) (8)

* 50-watt-hour lithium-ion battery (with integrated charge indicator LEDs) providing up to 4.5 hours of battery life (15-inch models) (8)

* 58-watt-hour lithium-ion battery (with integrated charge indicator LEDs) providing up to 4.5 hours of battery life (17-inch model) (8)

* 45W power adapter with cable management system (12-inch models)

* 65W power adapter with cable management system (15-inch and 17-inch models)

* Power adapter port

Keyboard and trackpad

* Built-in full-size keyboard with 78 (U.S.) or 79 (ISO) keys, including 12 function keys, 4 arrow keys (inverted

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monsoon Gigalopolis

monsoon

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By the way you're talking about Powerbooks, I wonder if you have even seen one in person.  :rolleyes:

Well yes. That was the point of going to the store to have a look. Did you actually read my thread? Have you ever looked at a T42 Thinkpad?

The Thinkpad you posted BTW, is one of an infinite # of specs you can get for them. You happened to choose one of the lower end models.

I wasn't purchasing the machine, my SO was who is not a computer person and has little interest in the guts of these things. He needs it to work for his business and in his eyes the Powerbooks just don't cut it. And it didn't help the Apple Rep, kept crashing the Safari browser. The bottom line for him was durability, warranty, and ease of use and he simply didn't like how flimsy the powerbooks seemed and the keyboard just simply was not up to par with that on the T42. He was ok with the display but didn't think it was as good as the Toshiba's across the isle.

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Neo City

Neo

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Looks as if you peeps are going to have to wait longer on the rumored G5 powerbooks as Apple just announced a refresh of the G4's.  Not something they would be likely to do if the G5 was just around the corner.

They have more than one announcement per year. I'd say the next announcement would contain something about the G5.

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MathNerd05 Hamlet

MathNerd05

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They have more than one announcement per year.  I'd say the next announcement would contain something about the G5.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds like someone is hungry for a G5 Pb. (Myself included!) I'm glad I went with a mini instead of the Pb before the upgrades. I'll wait on the Dual G4 core or the G5 Pb. If only it didn't take 3 weeks to ship the minis....

The Thinkp[ads are indeed superb machines. However, the mathematics world is run almost exclusively on Macs. The time for me to make the switch is now, and I like what I see.

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