80 Story Highrise for Charlotte

[SmellyCat]

The scuttlebut from some of my banking friends over at Wachovia is that this is brewing again for 2005. After all, investment banks (including pseudo-IBs like Wachovia and BofA) did have stellar years last year. Cash is aplenty.

[monsoon]

[goodbye]

I really like that building too. It looks like it was modeled after the old First Union logo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm having an awful time finding the older First Union logo you were thinking of. I'm almost positive that there was once a logo depicting a perched Eagle (yellow) directly above the number 1 (white), which created the F to start the bank name. I didn't think I was that old! I looked all over to find it, but have been unsuccessful thus far. Anyway, the reason I mention it at all is because I could see your point about the building design kind of resembling that particular logo.

If anyone can help me with that older logo, I'd be most grateful!

[bobliocatt]

Any renderings?

[goodbye]

If you are referring to the building renderings, look at the beginning of this sub-forum for those. As for my memory of the logo, I'm really hoping that it hasn't been erased from the history books already (like I said, I'm not that old!).

[uptownliving]

I have lived in Charlotte for 28 years and the First Union logo was the same the whole time I was here.

[atlrvr]

I've lost faith in The Park condos from ever happening.......I searched the Mecklenburg County permits today and have found that no permitting work had been filed since last July.....permits was the reason that I had been given for holding it up.......I wish that Verna would go ahead and admit that he can't make it happen and give the people their money back!

[ElricSeven]

I've lost faith in The Park condos from ever happening.......I searched the Mecklenburg County permits today and have found that no permitting work had been filed since last July.....permits was the reason that I had been given for holding it up.......I wish that Verna would go ahead and admit that he can't make it happen and give the people their money back!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you'll see in my earlier posts, I noted that it appears that a lot of those condos that were reserved have gone back up for sale. My guess is defections to better, more cost-effective product by Furman and others.

Or, it could be, that it is a bunch of speculators trying to resell their rights to the condos before they have to close. Don't know if people do that or not. Regardless, there's a ton of them listed on MLS.

[SmellyCat]

Or, it could be, that it is a bunch of speculators trying to resell their rights to the condos before they have to close.  Don't know if people do that or not.  Regardless, there's a ton of them listed on MLS.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I sure hope not. I'd hate to see CLT morph into a condo-flipping joke like Miami. Developers should discourage this practice.

[monsoon]

I've wondered for quite some time if Charlotte has the market to support so many pricey condo's right in the center city. I still believe if they build all of the proposals it is going to get bloody before it is all said and done. Someone will lose a lot of money.

[ElricSeven]

I've wondered for quite some time if Charlotte has the market to support so many pricey condo's right in the center city.  I still believe if they build all of the proposals it is  going to get bloody before it is all said and done.  Someone will lose a lot of money.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That would be the last set of flippers left holding the bag. My understanding is that the pricier ones would be harder to rent out and that a lot of speculators balked on the Courtside condos after they had to send the actual down payment in. This would keep things similar to what is going on with the Park. The speculators get weak-kneed because this is admittedly not Miami or NYC with guaranteed increases. Also, despite the hoopla about the rush for condos, sales are relatively slow in overpriced buildings.

People misinterpreted the rush to buy Blvd Centro condos as some kind of indication that everyone would rush to buy anything that hit the market. If you look at the rate at which other, less carefully chosen, less cooly designed and less bargain priced developments have sold, people aren't brainlessly rushing about and buying up everything that hits the market. Stuff from the Park, the Boulevard Company, the Renwick, etc., have a significant percentage of units that have lingered.

IMHO, Courtside sold out so quickly because it was very reasonbly priced - in fact some developers noted that they thought it was "substantially under priced" - in an area where the new arena and entertainment district is supposed to be. Top that off with the popularity of Furman's architecture and his long list of very happy previous owners, and it gave everyone the false impression that Uptown was Internet bubble hot.

Combine rising cement and steel prices, rising uptown land prices and the lack of willingness to overpay, and you've got pretty safe insurance against a massive bubble.

That's my take, but I reserve the right to be wrong.

[bobliocatt]

Any renderings?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry about that, my computer was acting weird last night and the renderings on the earlier pages were not showing.

[atlrvr]

I don't think that there is too many condos going up......there is no need to be paranoid for a place to not presell completely before it starts construction.....in fact outside of Florida this almost never happens.....the simple fact that so many units are reserved before construction begins shows just how strong the demand truly is......The Park (although I doubt it will ever get built) has only about 30 units left out of 105......this is for a project that has been delayed 4 years.......Courtside was completely sold out before construction began, and TradeMark is about 85% sold out and construction is still 2 months away......once Courtside is finished, and people are reassured that Charlotte can successfully build attractive high-rises, I suspect the demand to increase astronomically. The one segment that remains to be seen is the demand for luxury high-rise. While the Park is probably borderline luxury high-rise, I'm not sure there is a large market for project with a large percent of the units over $1m......as far as the bargain stuff like Novare....I suspect the demand here is insatiable....the only problem will be with resells......

[ElricSeven]

I don't think that there is too many condos going up......there is no need to be paranoid for a place to not presell completely before it starts construction.....in fact outside of Florida this almost never happens.....the simple fact that so many units are reserved before construction begins shows just how strong the demand truly is......The Park (although I doubt it will ever get built) has only about 30 units left out of 105......this is for a project that has been delayed 4 years.......Courtside was completely sold out before construction began, and TradeMark is about 85% sold out and construction is still 2 months away......once Courtside is finished, and people are reassured that Charlotte can successfully build attractive high-rises, I suspect the demand to increase astronomically.  The one segment that remains to be seen is the demand for luxury high-rise.  While the Park is probably borderline luxury high-rise, I'm not sure there is a large market for project with a large percent of the units over $1m......as far as the bargain stuff like Novare....I suspect the demand here is insatiable....the only problem will be with resells......

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Resales should be fine assuming that people aren't building speculatively (in anticipation of selling all the condos before completion) or buying speculatively (in anticipation of reselling at a big profit right after closing). It doesn't appear to me that this stuff is happening.

Without speculation, the supply is carefully modulated by demand. If Uptown continues to improve its amenities, which it appears to be doing with the ASC proposals, the Entertainment District, the stuff in Elizabeth, the Old Convention Center, etc., then we should be fine. More people will want to live Uptown and the available land will shrink.

All that being said, it isn't unknown for the economy to turn sour and a bunch of projects to freeze up.

[uptownliving]

Construction in the US is really being affected by China. China has gone on a construction binge and is currently using 50% of the world's Construction matierials. Of curse this has caused steel prices to shoot through the roof here in the US. This adversely affects skyscraper construciton be it residential or office in Charlotte due to the price increase.

Charlotte does get some of the benefit of increased steel prices as the nation's largest steel producer NuCor is HQ in Charlotte.

[SmellyCat]

FYI, recently spoke to a couple of people who are definitely in the know about the next Wachovia tower to go up. It will be at least 700,000 sf (don't know how many floors this equates to), ground will be broken either late 2005 or early 2006 with completion 24 to 30 months after that. Will be located on the Tryon & 1st site.

[Neo]

FYI, recently spoke to a couple of people who are definitely in the know about the next Wachovia tower to go up.  It will be at least 700,000 sf (don't know how many floors this equates to), ground will be broken either late 2005 or early 2006 with completion 24 to 30 months after that.  Will be located on the Tryon & 1st site.

http://charlotte.bizjournals.com/charlotte.../03/focus4.html

"Wachovia Corp., working with Childress Klein Properties, plans to start construction in the coming year on a 34-story, bank-anchored building totaling 750,000 square feet. Those specifications would make it the eighth-largest office building in Charlotte."

[SmellyCat]

sorry I guess my sources aren't so great afterall :-/

[atlrvr]

I believe that this project has gone back to the drawing boards so Wachovia can determine exactly how much space it will need....I do believe it will be built and I do believe construction will likely start by years end.....hopefully this means it will go higher than announced, but all I know for sure is that Wachovia is still analyzing it's needs.

[uptownliving]

I've lost faith in The Park condos from ever happening.......I searched the Mecklenburg County permits today and have found that no permitting work had been filed since last July.....permits was the reason that I had been given for holding it up.......I wish that Verna would go ahead and admit that he can't make it happen and give the people their money back!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did a search today and found that the permits for The Park condos were last rejected on December 20th....less than a month ago. The problem was CMUD Backflow Prevention....everything else for permitting was approved within the last couple of months. This is the 3rd round of permitting for this project...hopefully it will all be approved soon...this will make a nice addition to that section of downtown.

[Norm2]

Lets hope this can pull through! I hope they can get that problem fixed and get the permit so that they can start construction soon!

[atlrvr]

uptown.....well good news....that's odd that when i pulled it up it showed nothing since July 2004.....none the less, if backflow prevention is the only thing holding it up, it sounds like a relatively easy fix.......we'll see......I agree, I like the project, it's an attractive building and it's location in the skyline is perfect.

[ndray]

Back to the discussion re the top of 1 First Union.... I noticed that many of the McMansion style branches that FU built in the 90s -2000s had an arch over the main entrance. They also had a band of green ceramic tile that wrapped around the building and up over the arch.

This scheme definately reflects 1 FU. Obviously this was some branding thing, but I never noticed it until I saw this thread.

[appatone]

In the recent article in The Observer on high-rise living the author mentioned Wachovia working on a condo element on their S. Tryon and First St. project across from the green. This could cause the building to go higher but it was just a clip in the article and I don't know where the author would be getting the information from.

[skysdalimit]

Yeah I saw that too.