80 Story Highrise for Charlotte

[trader]

what article was this? last i heard there was no residential component to that building. i think there is a vacant building accross 4th from dean and deluca... wonder if that could be another Spectrum convert.

[atlrvr]

I personally don't like residential on Tryon....I think it should be an office street primarily. I also, think COllege should be developed as a secondary office street, and Church in 3rd Ward. Putting residences off of Tryon will cause more people to use the east-west streets and create a more interesting pedscape.

[monsoon]

Thats an interesting theory but it does make sense. Is there any other residential on Tryon now aside from Ivey's, the Tryon House, and that assisted living center?

[archiham04]

I think mixing is the ONLY way to go. When you start sectioning, or "zoning" downtown, you end up with disasters like the "Government District" which is a nightmare after dark.

[uptownliving]

Once 2nd Ward is redeveloped it won't be such a "nightmare"

[dubone]

Once 2nd Ward is redeveloped it won't be such a "nightmare"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When residential and other uses start being added in nearby first ward (5th and 6th streets) and second ward, i wonder if Court Arcade will be as popular as Latta Arcade. It looks almost the same, and appears to be from roughly the same time period, but Court Arcade is so dead-looking.

[uptownliving]

Where is the Court Arcade?

[atlrvr]

On trade, across from the jail.

The Ratcliff is also on Tryon.....my complaint is that we don't want to become a linear city like Atlanta where the best address for any use is Peachtree. I think Caldwell and maybe Brevard once it is converted to two-way traffic would be good candidates for a high-end housing street with ground floor retail.....think a mini Madison Ave.

[dubone]

On trade, across from the jail. 

The Ratcliff is also on Tryon.....my complaint is that we don't want to become a linear city like Atlanta where the best address for any use is Peachtree.  I think Caldwell and maybe Brevard once it is converted to two-way traffic would be good candidates for a high-end housing street with ground floor retail.....think a mini Madison Ave.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think Graham and Caldwell are the other big addresses for the future. They are both 4 blocks from Tryon, and have major connections out of downtown.

[archiham04]

Once 2nd Ward is redeveloped it won't be such a "nightmare"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

exactly my point... Mixing uses keeps areas from being a nightmare at certain times of day, and making Tryon an office only street, as suggested, would be a bad idea

[skysdalimit]

I think that Tryon should mainly be office, but I also think it is necessary for a large retail component (maybe department stores, small shops, restaurants, nightclubs) be put in place for Tryon so it won't be dead at night.

[atlrvr]

Tryon is certainly not dead at night......is full of people cruising, stumbling, screaming, urinating, panhandling, and attending plays.....Church is dead, College south of Trade is dead (Epicentre should help a lot), Brevard is dead, Caldwell is dead, Poplar is dead. This is why it is so important to put housing off of Tryon.....to create a larger scale pedestrian traffic network...

[AmericanUrbanDesigner]

GOD, PLEASE...

My dick get's hard looking at this thing...

[appatone]

There is no doubt that the Four First Union building is insanely incredible. I would LOVE to see it built but I do question whether or not it will happen. However I still say that if Wachovia does decide that they need more uptown space than the current 35 floors planned that they would consider dusting off this one and possibly reworking it into a 50 floor or so tower. I also think it would do more for the skyline in the 750-850 range than in the height it was originally planned. If you look at the old renderings with this building in the skyline it absolutely dwarfs the other buildings around it and minimizes them to a point were you don't even notice them. Let's face it the Charlotte Plaza is laughable next to this thing. But I love this building and I always have. It's a shame it only exists in renderings. My fear is that if Wachovia doesn't build it soon though everyone will forget about it and it will forever be relegated to the trash heap. I have been wondering about Wachovia's ego recently with all of the new tower construction. For years BofA and Wachovia were the two tallest. If you were to look at the skyline you immediately knew who the two big boys were. Then came Hearst and Wachovia was #3, soon with Epicentre and Vue Wachovia will slip to #5. I just wonder if Wachovia will want to re-establish a prominent place within the skyline so that once again you see their building and recognize their "big boy" status. Pretty soon the jukebox may get lost.

Anyway, Just for fun I spent a little time on Microsoft Paint of all software to come up with a redo of Wachovia's original rendering of Four First Union. I know what I have done isn't all that great but it was a half baked attempt anyway. I scaled the building down to a 50-60 floor range and changed its location to the 1st street address. In the rendering I had to add Hearst, IJL, and Odell since they were built after the original rendering. I also added a simblance of EpiCentre, a completly fabricated BofA tower where the new on is proposed, and even filled in with two 15-20 floor res towers on Levine's property. I didn't bother with Vue, Trademark, The Park, Courtside, or Avenue because either you wouldn't really be able to see them from this angle or I just didn't feel like bothering with it.

[rockhilljames]

We're gonna start looking like Houston.

At least, at the core.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

that would indeed be madness. That would be cool if they built it even larger and built the tallest building in the world. Er... I'm dreaming now.

[SmellyCat]

Seems like a tower of some sort is more and more likely, as uptown office vacancy is now down to a skimpy 6.8%.

[cw52808]

When we hear that Wachovia is reconsidering their space needs, does that mean that they are thinking about building bigger? Or not building at all? I read in the Observer that they are thinking about outsourcing some of their HR dept. With their other cuts and cost-cutting plan why would they want to build a huge tower that would be nearly empty?

Listen, I love all the announcements and the ever growing skyline too. Let's be realistic though... why would Wachovia be building a tower if they're trying to cut costs, a $200m+ tower isn't one way to decrease costs.

Then again, maybe they're cutting cost elsewhere in order to build the tallest building in the world!!!!....mmm maybe not.

Your thoughts?

[atlrvr]

The jobs that would be outsourced aren't jobs that would go in an uptown tower in the first place. They just consolidated a division that had been based in NY, and are moving it to Charlotte. I believe they are also moving some jobs from a different division as part of a consolidation. In that case, the total number of Wachovia jobs is decreasing, but employment will actually be increasing in Charlotte.

When looking at consolidating units, and moving them, Charlotte is attractive due to the low costs of doing business here (rents, lawyers, wages, business services etc...)

As far as the tower goes, it has been somewhat shelved for the immediate, but is certainly not dead. There is just a lot in flux. A good source has told me that Wake Forest could be larger than expected in the building and offer more than they currently do (can't say much more about this). Also, the city is dragging it's feet very slowly on the arts project, and the NASCAR bid has the potential to slow this even further. This tower will not be built until the arts package has been settled, due to Wachovia's commitments to the package and design considerations.

I don't expect Wachovia to have a firm idea of the scope of the project until late this summer. While I think there is a decent chance for a height increase, I doubt it would surpass the current HQ building, though a Tryon St. address would be attractive to the company.

The arts package is also holding up the BofA tower.

[Dale]

No non-Charlottean was more excited than I when the building was proposed. But I remember being disappointed by the design when it was made public, after the project had already been shelved.

[SmellyCat]

Wachovia appears to be really space starved these days, especially at the professional level. It's gotten so bad that they had to sublease the hideous Verbatim software building (probably Class "C" space) on W.T. Harris in the University Area and move hundreds of investment professionals there and they're none the too happy about it! And I know what Wachovia pays for the space up there and surprisingly, it's not that cheap. So while it's true they are undergoing cost-cutting measures, it's focused more on things like reduced travel and entertainment expenses, outsourcing of call centers and admin, selling off competing branches from SouthTrust acquistion, etc....not so much on the real estate side.

[eastsider]

Good job appatone! I must say that I like the 4 First Union better scaled down. It fits in the skyline so much better.

[miamistreets]

So its not going to be 80 stories anymore?

That sucks.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

no he just scaled it down and put into a picture.

[dubone]

So its not going to be 80 stories anymore?

That sucks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes. According to 23% of us, it will 0 stories, and that REALLY sucks.

For some reason, i think that if wachovia ever decides to build a new 'tallest', it is more likely to be like appatone's depiction than 80 stories.

I think they will just barely top out over bofa corporate center, and would build other smaller towers if they need more space than push it up to 80.

Psychologically, i think that people dont want to work WAY above all the other towers anymore. There is more secure feeling for people when there are entourage buildings nearby.