Living the American Dream

[it's just dave]

I don't ever shop at Walmart.  I went inside because I needed to take a piss.

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Oh, hang thy head in shame. That's what malls are for.

I wish I had a picture of what I stumbled across the other morning in one of my Sunday "tours." Deciding to visit Ashland City, a somewhat topographically disconnected satellite city of Nashville, I figured I'd see the usual sites. The Cumberland River and its backwaters framing qauint little houses and approaches the scene of a fishing village. The town itself is still somewhat intact with its little strips of stores, courthouse, Brother Pig's BBQ and the Hope, Faith and Glory coffee shop, not to mention the numerous restaurants each promising the "freshest " catfish.

What disturbed me was seeing a scene exactly like the one posted here. A Super Walmart in what used to be one of the most serene locations of that county. And it was packed...even on a Sunday morning. I can't defend this. It's such a trespass on this land.

[jarrodslc]

You people are so lame it's not like you don't shop there weekly.

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I for one do not shop at walmart... EVER! I think Zed was dead on. But give the people what they want, or atleast what they have been programmed to want.

It always depresses me to hear people say things like "Wal-Mart creates jobs".  No, they simply replace jobs that were already in the community.  The people who shop at Wal-Mart are all former shoppers of other establishments.  Establishments that generally go under leaving the post-apocalyptic Main Street seen in many small towns and cities.

Your typical small town or small city now has few "mom n pop" stores and is instead dominated by chain retailers who pay their workers very little, offer no benefits to most employees, destoy the landscape of their "host" (the picture in this thread), and take their profits to headquarters leaving little for the host community.  If business conditions are not favorable, the big box chain stores close and leave a community devoid of wealth or small businesses.

Wal-Mart and their chain store/restaurant ilk are literally parasites that suck the wealth out of communities (excepting the one containing the headquarters).  Wal-Mart offers a bargain (cheap goods and minimum wage jobs) to a community, with the community expected to forfeit any competing non-minimum wage jobs or community-minded employers that might care about offering benefits or anything else besides the bottom line.  Wal-Mart's oft-touted efficiency makes them very able of executing the bargain.

I am arguing that Wal-Mart is an agent of destruction for jobs and communities.  People are figuring out the scam and Wal-Mart is now having to resort to battles (and even skullduggery) with their hosts to build their stores.

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[josita]

What is being argued here? Is Walmart so hated because of the traffic that it brings? The aesthetic appearance it has? The layout of the store? The fact that it shifts jobs (and yes, probably adds more) from local mom and pop ones to the big Walmart?

Because if so, then you can replace the word Walmart in the above questions with Super Target, strip malls, Mall of America, Home Depot, Menards, Lowes, Kohls, Bed, Bath & Beyond, Best Buy, the list is endless. And I would bet $100 that 90% of the people on this forum has shoped and regularly shops at one or more of these stores.

I would hesitate to put sole blame on Walmart in this case, they are just the best at what they do, I would put more blame on the American public and the desire we have to live in a car dependent environment.

I like being the devil's advocates at times, and this is one of them. I don't shop at Walmart (there aren't any anywhere near where I live.) I am an urbanite, so the mom & pop stores are usually my only option.

[zed]

What is being argued here?  Is Walmart so hated because of the traffic that it brings?  The aesthetic appearance it has?  The layout of the store?  The fact that it shifts jobs (and yes, probably adds more) from local mom and pop ones to the big Walmart?

You bring up a good point. Anybody can lambast WalMart and its superstore brethren for their flaws, which I and others have done earlier in the thread. But there is a fundamental issue here..

That issue is: what supports the existence of entities like Wal-Mart, feeding the menance of suburban sprawl, desolated communities, and automobile dependency? 75+ years ago, there was very little suburban sprawl and very few national discount retailers, restaurant chains, and the like. Communities were built on a foundation of businesspeople who produced, bought, and sold products locally. There was some business conducted on a regional or larger scale, but nowhere near a majority. People lived near their place of work and had little need for an automobile. Today, practically every key element of the American economy is dominated by superregional (meaning many states) or larger businesses. By this I mean banks, insurance, grocery stores, restaurants, general goods stores, etc. Many Americans live far from their place of work and suffer horrendous commutes, sometimes in excess of 50 miles one way.

Obviously there is a force that is systematically concentrating American commerce in the hands of a small number of entities with large reach. This same force encourages the use of the automobile as part of commerce and daily life. That force is CHEAP ENERGY, which reduces to CHEAP OIL. The primary technologies of cheap oil, such as the automobile and the 18-wheeler, were well developed by the 1950s and perfectly positioned to launch what is now known as suburbia. Today, companies like Wal-Mart maintain their stores with a giant fleet of trucks, all of which are powered by cheap oil. Goods are not produced locally like 100 years ago, they are made in far-off locales (often in places like East Asia) and shipped to stores in the US. Shoppers at these stores are required to use a car to shop at these places, as the stores are so large and part of a urban-planning framework that is completely hostile to walking or biking. Urban planning boards design cities with avenues and freeways separating residential areas from commerical and industrial areas. Cheap energy has permeated our urban design, fundamentally affecting how we live. Stores like Wal-Mart are thus merely a symptom of this.

Today our entire retail and commerce structure is dependent on cheap oil. Well, what is the problem? The problem is there is mounting evidence that the days of cheap oil are soon to be over. You can smell something funny in the air regarding world politics these days, that smell is almost certainly coming from the realization that world energy production is nearing a peak. Even publications like National Geographic (June 2004) are running articles on the subject. In short, we have almost maxed out the earth's oil production, today in 2004. Depending on who you believe, this "peak" may not arrive until as late as 2030, but it is undeniable that the hydrocarbon energy reserves underlying suburbia are finite. Industrialization in Asia means the US is likely to be in competition with them for use of the remaining oil reserves (which are constrained by geology). Competition of course means higher prices and possibly shortages.

What all of this really means is that our long-term economic future is in jeopardy. The energy base our society has been built on may not last another 30 years (or 5, in the opinion of some). Whenever we overshoot our resource base, national chain retailing will be unviable and the whole of suburbia will collapse. Driving your car around everywhere for every little errand will be impossible. Importing manufactured goods from across the world will not be economical. The energy (in the form of oil) will cost too much or will not exist.

When considering a future of reduced energy availability, it becomes clear that suburbia (represented by Wal-Mart) is a futureless automobile ghetto whose utility is only guaranteed as long as the oil flows cheaply into American gas tanks. Our prior model of local production and local business has been destroyed and outsourced so we have nothing to fall back on. A true energy crisis (far worse than the fire drills of the 1970s) will completely destroy us. From this perspective, stores like Wal-Mart are nothing but a reminder of how much energy we waste and how hopeless we will be without it. In short, how hopeless our national energy policy really is.

In my mind, the picture at the beginning of this thread is a visual representation of everything I just typed and really is worth a thousand words!

In summary, many people look at a Wal-Mart and after some thought, realize how ghastly and bloated the store is. However few give it much further thought. Understanding what these stores represent, why they thrive, and why they are doomed to fail is a rather complex exercise that hits at the fundamental underpinnings of the American economy, none of which are desirable or sustainable.

[Neo]

Wal-Mart in particular is a terrible employer. I worked for them in a previous life so I'm not just blowing smoke. Yes, they're big box just like Target, K-Mart, etc. but to the Nth degree IMO.

[josita]

I agree with all the arguments against Walmart. I hate the fact that they are contributing to the abuse of our environment .. but is the disease Walmart? or is it the symptom?

[Cotuit]

Great post Zed.

I find that there is something very telling about the economic health of our country, when the largest company by far is a discount chain store.

-PS: I've never shopped at a WalMart. And all the other big box stores I have shopped at, have either been on foot, or by bus.

[Brickell]

I agree with all the arguments against Walmart. I hate the fact that they are contributing to the abuse of our environment .. but is the disease Walmart?  or is it the symptom?

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I think that sums it up.

I'm a fence sitter on this one as well. As much as I loathe the idea of big boxes, they are easier and cheaper, especially in this suburban world most of us live in. There's not one that's close to me, but I shop there occasionaly. I usually do an urban type Target store, but in my mind it's more of the same.

Are they really that different thant the Sears and other large department stores of the past?

[MathNerd05]

All one needs is look at the changes in small-town America over the last 15 years. What symbiotic dichotomy it has become.

I am a Wal-Mart shopper b/c all other stores in the Oxford area have either closed or sell products at sometimes twice the price. While I despise the beast, I am a poor graduate student. Survival instincts kick in...

[rbhriuthbu1234]

Your right about how one day we will be scraping oil but when the time gets here the'll probably will make a automobile that doesn't require oil. It's so pethedic how we sit here not even caring what will happen but when it does every person who owns a car will freak and that's all the'll be talking about, How were running out of oil.

[josita]

While I despise the beast, I am a poor graduate student. Survival instincts kick in...

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I think that is my point more than anything. If you're poor, the market forces kick in more than ever and you are forced to shop where you can afford to live. Unfortunately, the mom and pop stores today cannot provide goods cheap enough. I am not advocating for this, I am just staying facts.

the'll probably will make a automobile that doesn't require oil.

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The technology already exists, right? It's the greedy oil cartels that are stopping the demand ...

[BrandonTO416]

Wal-Mart isn't evil. America wants Wal-Mart. So what does that make America?

[jarrodslc]

Just a quick opinion. I don't think the problem is just WalMart, I think that they are by far the largest bix box out there so they are used as a general term to describe all big boxes. Sort of like how some people refer to all soda as Coke or all copy machines as a Xerox.

Despite all the problems and complaining I really don't think walmart is going anywhere. We have already gone too far down that road and I think there is no turning back. Atleast not until there is some major change in the economy or something (i dunno) that really shakes people up. Or until all the working class, decent paying jobs are gone and "normal, everyday people" (no offense to those that have worked there, I worked at Target in college myself) have to work at walmart. Which brings me to my point... finally. People always talk about walmart being cheap. However, I think that is a very short-sided, and I'm sad to say it, but American way of looking at it. The cost on your receipt is not the "true cost" you are paying. For instance, consider the tax breaks, mass infrastructure upgrades, etc that are required for this sprawling big box growth. We, as tax payers are bearing that burden as well. Most disheartening is the fact that American manufacturing jobs are being lost because they simply cannot complete with countries that don't offer employees the basic rights we do. So when people demand those "low" prices, they very well could be buying themself out of a job. I suppose that is the catch, you can't spend much money so you buy whatever is cheapest, ethical considerations aside, which in turn hurts you in the form of wages since your employer can't compete with foreign suppliers, which is forcing you to being even more dependant on them.

As a side not, I watched a very interesting show on PBS which discussed how there is an initial spike in jobs and tax revenue when a walmart comes to town; however after about 2 years when all the competition is gone those benefits no longer hold true. It's not like walmart is printing money, they are simply shifting the revenue from one source to another.

Perhaps, okay maybe not, but worst of all the walmaterization of our nation is making ours a nation void of character and uniqueness. All american cities, espcially suburbs are beginning to look more and more the same. Which is ugly and boring . That's sad to me because I enjoy the uniquess of urban life and cities which is why I joined this forum, but more and more photos from different cities look the same.

I know I said I will be brief, so I'm sorry if I got carried away. I also hope that made some sort of sense because I am exhausted and don't feel like proof reading. I know there are many ways to look at it and there are positives as well but this is just my opinion and the core problems I have with walmart type developement. I just want people to consider things besides price before buying from walmart and if they can afford the little extra (honestly what is a few dollars every now and then to most, not all people) to consider buying locally . okay, signing off now my fingers hurt.

[Urban_Legend]

I think it's a cultural problem, not a retail situation. The people on this website are quite a minortiy among other U.S. citizens. And I don't like how people tend to blame Wal-Mart, because there are plenty of other corporations out there that could be equally targeted.

I've seen urban retail, like Target and Barnes & Noble, and it's quite impressive. While this still may not solve the Mom & Pop problem, it at least makes for good land use.

[Cotuit]

People always talk about walmart being cheap.  However, I think that is a very short-sided, and I'm sad to say it, but American way of looking at it.  The cost on your receipt is not the "true cost" you are paying.  For instance, consider the tax breaks, mass infrastructure upgrades, etc that are required for this sprawling big box growth.  We, as tax payers are bearing that burden as well.  Most disheartening is the fact that American manufacturing jobs are being lost because they simply cannot complete with countries that don't offer employees the basic rights we do.  So when people demand those "low" prices, they very well could be buying themself out of a job.

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That's exactly the problem. Our fat-American "gimme gimme gimme, more more more" society can't see the forest for the trees. Shopping at WalMart is a false economy. Sure the price on your receipt is low, but people can't see the forest for the trees and can't or aren't willing to judge the real cost.

I'm reminded of a commercial that has been pissing me off lately (everytime I see it I yell at the TV). It's for some truck (Chevy, Ford, Dodge, it doesn't matter), they say, "It's not more than you need, it's more than you're used to." Actually, IT IS MORE THAN YOU NEED! Bigger Better More Cheaper Faster Harder Longer... No one is satisfied with what they need, they always want more, for less. It never works that way, there's always a price.

[MathNerd05]

That's exactly the problem. Our fat-American "gimme gimme gimme, more more more" society can't see the forest for the trees. Shopping at WalMart is a false economy. Sure the price on your receipt is low, but people can't see the forest for the trees and can't or aren't willing to judge the real cost.

I'm reminded of a commercial that has been pissing me off lately (everytime I see it I yell at the TV). It's for some truck (Chevy, Ford, Dodge, it doesn't matter), they say, "It's not more than you need, it's more than you're used to." Actually, IT IS MORE THAN YOU NEED! Bigger Better More Cheaper Faster Harder Longer... No one is satisfied with what they need, they always want more, for less. It never works that way, there's always a price.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I will settle for no less than instant gratification! I'm an American goshdarnit!

How true Cotuit. How true.

I would think that the people that frequent this website have a higher education level and a higher quality of life than most other Americans and other people in the world. agree with trying to keep things in perspective.

[Spartan]

All one needs is look at the changes in small-town America over the last 15 years. What symbiotic dichotomy it has become.

I am a Wal-Mart shopper b/c all other stores in the Oxford area have either closed or sell products at sometimes twice the price. While I despise the beast, I am a poor graduate student. Survival instincts kick in...

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I think this is the key factor. Walkmart's roots are in small towns. Places where there are likely more people with a lower income- so these people are always looking for a better buy. And as a fellow poor college student, I can attest that it is often easier just to drive to walkmart than it is to try and figure out where else to but it. A few weeks ago I needed a small trash can for my bathroom. So where exactly do you buy one of those without going to BB&B or walkmart? A hardware store? probably not. I still don't know. I ended up just going to walkmart becuase I knew they woudl have it, and it would be cheap. So I got my daily excercise in and I was satisfied with my 93

[BrandonTO416]

The reason Walmart is successful is because a) Consumers spend their dollars there. B) They offer a product that tends to be reasonable, even if not always the lowest price. c) It fits into the current culture of cheap, available, expendable products in an auto-only environment. d) They have little competition, and the domino effect and name recognition means a new Walmart in a small town is a good thing for most small towns.

What isn't happening is innovation: other types of businesses coming in to compete hard with Walmart. The small governments nationwide tend to promote Walmart growth and give them tax benefits. My college town of 25,000 now has two Super Walmarts, not one. It was promoted very highly and well received by the public.

People have to vote with their dollars on these kinds of issues. If they didn't want Walmart, Walmart wouldn't be coming in. People aren't going to stop shopping at Walmart because they don't have good options and the local governments nationwide aren't actively seeking to promote themselves to any other type of business either.

There are two key elements missing in the Walmart equation: local governments need to encourage urban-styled growth when possible. Why couldn't there be an "urban Walmart" idea where Walmart builds a store near the town square, with a parking garage, and a sidewalk front door upon a street? Also, local governments need to pitch themselves to other corporations such as Target, K-Mart, etc. to see if a little variety could come in. Maybe a new company with a Walmart-like idea can come in with equally low prices and etc.

Customers really don't "choose" a lot of the things they choose. They deal with what they are given, more so in small town America then anywhere else. Walmart tends to offer fewer choices, but opens up one specific choice (the Walmart way).

A Walmart melded in with the downtown fabric would do wonders for small town square businesses.

The reality is Walmart is going to exist. This would be an idea to make it work better.

[monsoon]

[MathNerd05]

So where exactly do you buy one of those without going to BB&B or walkmart?

Walkmart is right. It has to be like, at least a mile across those stores. They just keep going and going and going and going and going....

All I wanted was some Reese's and I'm lost in the Wal-Mart pet store...

I would think some little novelty store would have a trash-can. You could probably go to your local greek-affiliated retailer and purchase a Delta Kappa Epsilon trash can for cheap.

[monsoon]

[Spartan]

I heard on the radio that the German walkmart is called "singles shopping" or somthing- anyway, they are going to introduce the concept here, which is to "shop" for singles by having a picture board, and a "flirting area" or something to that effect. I realize thats not entirely relevant, but I found that to be odd in itself.

[MathNerd05]

At Notre Dame the place to pick up other single people is a locally owned supermarket. While it is odd, I'm not surprised. Europeans tend to be a little more liberal than their United States cousins.

[BrandonTO416]

Nah, Europeans skip liberalism. They tend to be socialist. You say liberal in Europe and its no different then saying it in red America - Europeans hate liberals too. There is no majority liberal government in any major European nation. The United Kingdom is ruled by the democratic socialist Labour party with Tony Blair as its head for example.

Canada is the only real "liberal" first world country.

The United States was liberal from the Civil War to the 1980's. From the liberal Lincoln Republicans who freed the slaves, to the Teddy Roosevelt progressives, to the liberal progressive Woodrow Wilson conversion of the NATIONAL Democratic party through the Franklin D. Roosevelt liberal leadership through WWII, all the way to the liberal Democrats and Republicans who pushed Civil Rights in the 60's, its been good for the history books.

But that's the past. We left the liberal realm of nations some 20 years ago and Canada has basically took our place.

You guys would be amazed at how staunchly conservative and backwards Canada was in the first half of the 1900's while we were a raging Liberal neighbor to the south....

We were banning the death penalty in state after state while Canada was still hanging people.

Oh history is so amazing.

[monsoon]