Triangle Regional Transit

[orulz]

That railroad in Chapel Hill, by the way, DID at one point in time run all the way to Columbia Street. The passenger terminal for the city of Chapel Hill and the University of North Carolina was on the northwest corner of the South Rd / Columbia Street intersection, right next to the Carolina Inn. This is directly across Columbia street from the main UNC academic quad.

If you ever drive/walk/bike along Ransom Street between McCauley and Cameron, you'll notice that at the highest point on the street it crosses a grassy alley that's inaccessible to cars. The alley extends directly from the UNC Cogeneration Plant to the parking lot behind the Carolina Inn. Right now this alleyway is used for the steam lines running to campus from the plant, but it used to be the aforementioned rail line. The ROW is pretty wide (50 feet or so) and there is clearly enough space to fit two tracks with no direct impact on the built environment if need be.

Now, on to TTA.

There is definitely a plan to bring some sort of fixed guideway transit into Chapel Hill, although the initial plans have nothing to do with the existing rail corridor. This could be BRT, Light Rail, or DMU regional rail. The first line will roughly parallel 15/501 (sharing the ROW for part of the way) and the second will start at Triangle Metro Center, go past Southpoint, and run roughly parallel to NC54.

The lines will merge somewhere near Meadowmont, and then run in the median of the NC54 Bypass. The fact that the lines will share the same alignment on the 54 bypass means that they must use the same technology. For that reason, I hope that they choose regional rail DMUs, but that may be difficult due to the hilly terrain.

And then, on to the universtiy.

UNC has set asside a transit corridor in their Main Campus Master Plan. They want the line to head up Mason Farm Rd from the Bypass, curving north and terminating somewhere to the south of the hospital. That doesn't seem very convenient for anyone. I think it would be better if they linked it to the old rail corridor to create a route through Chapel Hill. The engineering would be difficult, but no more so than what TTA already plans to do at the wye in downtown Raleigh.

I suspect that a "through" route is exactly what Chapel Hill and the University are trying to avoid due to some form of the disease "NIMBYitis." However, this would link both Carrboro and UNC North to the regional rail system, which is undeniably a good thing, and well worth the impact it would have on Chapel Hill and the university.

[MR-2]

That's a great idea. I never noticed that the rail corridor actually went on past the plant, and we even drove around that area looking at the houses a few times. The only thing I'm concerned about is whether the track would be on a path with too much of a vertical gradient. Chapel Hill is very hilly, especially on south campus.

I don't actually know where their planned corridor would fit though. Got any building references? I would guess close enough to the Dean Dome to supplement game traffic from the rest of the triangle, but maybe there's another spot.

[orulz]

That's a great idea. I never noticed that the rail corridor actually went on past the plant, and we even drove around that area looking at the houses a few times.

It's easy to miss because it's overgrown and there are no rails there anymore. You can clearly see it from Ransom Street, though.

The only thing I'm concerned about is whether the track would be on a path with too much of a vertical gradient. Chapel Hill is very hilly, especially on south campus.

The existing/former rail line has no problems with slopes. Trains used to run there, after all. The new segment along Mason Farm Rd is on a pretty steep slope, but by attacking it at an angle (like Mason Farm Rd) and using cuts/fills/bridges where necessary, the rather significant hill can be tamed.

I don't actually know where their planned corridor would fit though. Got any building references? I would guess close enough to the Dean Dome to supplement game traffic from the rest of the triangle, but maybe there's another spot.

The transit line basically consists of an easement on UNC's campus master plan.

Check out the map on page 6 (labeled as page 130) of this PDF file. The transit line does pass just to the south of the Dean Dome. That would be a good place for a special event station. The line then follows Mason Farm Road (which UNC plans to completely redevelop) and terminates just to the east of the hospital's massive parking deck (between SW41 and SW44 on the map). I wish they would at least take the transit line all the way to the hospital rather than terminating it at the parking deck.

That is how UNC wants TTA's transit corridor to enter their campus. I should emphasize that this corridor will not necessarily be a rail line, and in fact BRT is far more likely.

[orulz]

Another interesting article by Bob Geary in the Independent Weekly about TTA. It's loaded with facts and info about TTA's current status, although there's not a whole lot of new information that hasn't been discussed here in some way.

[ChiefJoJo]

Link to the entire article: Indy: "Mystery Train"

[DanRNC]

I like Metro NC magazine but I think Bernie Reeves is way off on this one:

Article Link

[orulz]

I like Metro NC magazine but I think Bernie Reeves is way off on this one:

Article Link

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't see Bernie Reeves complaining about how I-540 was a communist plot to "forever change our development patterns" and turn us into a town reminiscent of a soviet mining village.

But yet, what was (and still is!) the primary stated purpose of I-540? It certainly isn't to mitigate congestion. In fact, 540 is going to increase congestion significantly. They're predicting that the traffic in Western Wake county will increase so much that where there once were 2, 2 lane rural highways (Davis Drive and NC55) we're now going to need 5 4-lane highways (Town Hall Drive, Davis Drive, Louis Stephens Drive, NC55, and Green Level to Durham Rd.)

I-540's real purpose is to provide the infrastructure for and encourage development in the outer regions of Wake county. That's exactly what TTA is doing, the only difference is that it's in the underdeveloped regions of inner Wake and Durham counties. Somehow encouraging development in the outer parts of the county is pure and beautiful capitalism in its full glory, but doing the same inside the city is a despicable communist plot?

If TTA is a top-down ploy to change development in the Triangle (which, quite frankly, it is), then so be it- but call a spade a spade and say the same thing about your beloved I-540, Mr. Reeves.

[ChiefJoJo]

There are too many errors to go over one by one, but this one is flat untrue:

To this end, they have worked in the shadows to stop road projects to help create traffic gridlock to justify rail transit. The 10-year delay in widening I-40 at Research Triangle Park, and the 8-year delay in completing the Highway 70 overpass at Clayton, are two instructive examples.

Thankfully, we don't have morons like this to lead the city.

[orulz]

Hallmarks of the Left are the ability to lie for the greater cause and display no shame when caught in a contradiction.

To Mr. Reeves: Take a good look in the mirror and at the article. You're doing an awful lot of lying for your own greater cause. And there are more than a few contradictions in your article, too.

Yet a glance at TV traffic reports indicates smooth conditions on the main arteries,

.....

today, Raleigh roads are nearly impassable

?!?!?

He also takes a very Raleigh-centric view of TTA. He fails to recognize that the triangle, as a metro area, has melded into a virtually inseperable conglomeration.

He does make one good point about using the existing rail corridor. The TTA project was begun with the assumption that building on the NCRR would be cheaper/simpler, and in the end that may not have been the case. They originally thought they could run in mixed traffic with freight trains. When further study proved that to be impossible, they still continued with the assumption that using the rail right-of-way was the best course of action. Perhaps more study about other rights-of-way would have been better. If you're talking about going between Raleigh and Durham, US70/Glenwood Ave does seem like a mighty good option for BRT/LRT...

[Subway Scoundrel]

After reading the Bernie Reeves article, I just get frustrated. First, Mr. Reeves has always been somewhat of a loudmouth. He has always wanted to spout his political ideologue but never could really get away with it or could not

[MR-2]

He has a following unfortunately. There are those that want to see Wake County covered in suburban shopping malls, tourist traps, and impossibly redundant roads. I don't want to know the why or how for that mentality, but it's there. Luckily the people that need to be influenced are already on our side. The Federal Transit Authority is the only thing slowing us down.

[ChiefJoJo]

The other factor at play that nobody wants to talk about is the long term price and availability of cheap gas. We have built our cities on this concept for many years, but some say that we will use up our remaining 1 trillion barrels of oil in 30-40 years, which begs the question: what will happen to our suburban lifesyles then? We might all have to take transit if gas is $10/gal in 2025.

[ChiefJoJo]

Here's an N&O article on Chapel Hill transit: link

[romec]

Not actually a monorail, but the article reminded me of that simpsons episode.

Saw this story over at the N&O Chapel Hill looking to upgrade transit Essentially a transit planner from Ottawa is suggesting that Chapel Hill/Carborro upgrade their bussing with either fixed bus lanes/trolleys or light rail. This is still probably 5-10 years away, but the cool thing is that area leaders actually embrace the idea. Furthermore its great that if a system were built, some officials would want it to remain fare-free like the bus system is today.

This is still a long ways away from happening, but it looks as though Chapel hill is continuing to lead the region in public transit thinking. (It is easier when you're 1/3 the size of Durham and 1/6 the size of Raleigh. ) I'd love to see a system like this linked up with regional rail. If Chapel Hill wants to grow, I'm sure a quick uncongested mass transit option to Raleigh, RTP, and Durham would net a lot of residents.

[monsoon]

It would be great if they could build a monobeam system. There is a company in Charleston, SC which developed a system and even built a scale demo system there, but when Bush was elected in 2000, funds got cut to take it further.

More information here.

There is also an UrbanPlanet thread on the subject.

SC & GA develop advanced monobeam transit

[urbanesq]

yes, it's cool that the town's leaders are supportive of public transit, and the bus stuff is cool in theory, but I think Chapel Hill's obsession with Ottawa is unhealthy. Fixed busways are more expensive than TTA's proposed regional rail would be, and to link a fixed busway with a fixed rail transit system means fewer riders system-wide (every time one has to change mode -- ie from bus to train, systemwide ridership takes a plunge).

Re-orienting CH's bus system so that it better serves that entire community and is not so university-centric is a great thing, but I see no advantage to fixed busways as part of that plan. I really wish the Town could get over the Ottawa-envy and be a full partner in the regional solution to the area's transit infrastructure.

[DanRNC]

As a Chapel Hillian I can tell you that a monorail system will never be built-the residents here would go nuts. I see a very simple fixed guideway bus from main campus to Carolina North as priority number 1. A link to the TTA I see as a later goal.

[MR-2]

Chapel Hill should stop being so damn indy and nonconformist about their public transit. Heavy rail is cheap and effective. It's what the rest of the triangle's using. Build onto it.

[urbanesq]

Chapel Hill should stop being so damn indy and nonconformist about their public transit. Heavy rail is cheap and effective. It's what the rest of the triangle's using. Build onto it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

's'what I'm saying. can I get an amen?

[romec]

Chapel Hill by far has the best mass transit in the region. Raleigh, Durham and Cary should follow its example. Like I said its easier to have good mass transit in a smaller region, but it is years ahead of Raleigh and Durham.

AFAIK heavy rail isn't used anywhere in the Triangle for intra-regional or intra-city travel.

[urbanesq]

Chapel Hill by far has the best mass transit in the region. Raleigh, Durham and Cary should follow its example. Like I said its easier to have good mass transit in a smaller region, but it is years ahead of Raleigh and Durham.

AFAIK heavy rail isn't used anywhere in the Triangle for intra-regional or intra-city travel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

not yet, but it's coming.

my main point is that the transportation patterns of the region require an approach based not on how well the individual cities serve their residents' needs, but on how well integrated their transit networks are. Until we have a seamless transit system serving the entire triangle, we hamper our ability to funtion as the economic powerhouse we are.

[MR-2]

Chapel Hill by far has the best mass transit in the region. Raleigh, Durham and Cary should follow its example. Like I said its easier to have good mass transit in a smaller region, but it is years ahead of Raleigh and Durham.

AFAIK heavy rail isn't used anywhere in the Triangle for intra-regional or intra-city travel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The whole thread where we talked about the TTA rail project not ring a bell?

Chapel Hill has a great bus system, undoubtably. Shame if nobody wants to transfer there to use it.

[romec]

Speaking of that thread, JoJo posted the link to this story there too :-)

Lets move the party over there!

[SouthJersey7]

I like Metro NC magazine but I think Bernie Reeves is way off on this one:

Article Link

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Man that guy's out of it! If smart planning and growth is "communist" or "soviet", then hey guess what! That means this nation was built by communists!

[yfreemark]

According to this week's Triangle Business Journal, TTA's cost-cutting again to make sure that it makes federal guidelines.

Cuts include:

- Buying 14, instead of 24, train cars.

- Redesigning the downtown Raleigh station.

- Single tracking the last stations on the line (9th St and Government Cnt) [with implications for the future of the system...]

(Read more at: Biz Journal Link)