Orlando media wants Jacksonville's Jaguars

[ironchapman]

Awww...come on Orlando, let 'em keep the Jaguars.

How would you like it if Disney moved to Jax?

Odd how the entire discussion turned because of a little sarcastic comment.

[brewerw]

The list of total attendance was if the crowd sold out every game. Look the number in parenthese is the capacity, if you read the list the numbers get smaller according to the capacity.

[prahaboheme]

I came to this conclusion because the whole financial center for miami would have been DISNEYTIZED. Hence no cruise ship industry and no downtown the way it is now. As such the only logical conclusion would be that the current number 2 in florida would be number 1

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've never heard of this before. Do you have a reliable source? As for as I've ever heard, Disney was so secretive about their new location for Disneyworld, that no one even knew who was buying up all the land around Central Florida because it was under multiple different names. I'm sure Walt Disney looked at many many areas around Florida and the Southeast for Disney, and I seriously doubt that he chose Orlando over Miami or JAX because of "bad reception" from the locals. More like, a good location in the middle of the state. The main reason for so much land was because Anaheim was so crowded that you could see Mcdonalds and Burger King from the skyride (now gone for that reason).

Further, if Disney were in fact in Miami, it would only propel the city to even greater heights. Everyone knows that (after all, look whats its done for Orlando).

[bsutter2]

Yea disney secretly bought up the property in Orlando under aliases or by having friends do his dirty work. I seriously doubt that miami was ever an option..

[leets]

You're right about Bianchi, he is just a gadfly and is not to be taken seriously.  As to Jacksonville being the smallest market, Green Bay is at least an hour or more north of Milwaukee (I went to Milwaukee last summer) and I am quite sure that we have passed Buffalo by now in the population of our MSA.  We will probably pass New Orleans too sometime around 2010.  So, this small market stuff will soon be put to rest.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Before y'all get too excited about passing Buffalo you should know that its true maket is bigger than the ( US )census report. The census does not count the 400,000 people who live directly adjacent to Buffalo on the Canadian side of the border. Buffalo also draws from Rcochester NY which is a metro of 1M people just 1 hour drive away. It also draws from Hamilton Ontario another 500,000 people 1 hour away. Not to mention that Toronto's 7M people are about 1 1/2 hours away by car

The true Buffalo metro including Canada = 1.6M

Buffalo Bills drawing area including Rochester Hamilton and Toronto = 10M people within 1.5 hour drive (this is the number of people within Buffalo's blackout area) There is also several nearby NY counties and Syracuse with rabid Bills fans not counted as part of the official US Census Buffalo market

[bobliocatt]

Very true and accurate observation. That's just like the metros of Lakeland and Sarasota being included in Tampa's or Orlando being split between Jacksonville and Tampa's NFL markets.

[RiversideGator]

Well, if you count as part of the Buffalo metro area cities from which people attend Bills games, then I say we should count Orlando and Savannah in Jacksonville's metro area since I have seen cars at Jags games from both locations. That is really a silly argument. The reality is that, while the area around Buffalo is very populous, the core area of Buffalo is shrinking and has been for years while Jacksonville has been growing. And, I wasnt trying to slight Buffalo anyway, I was just saying that we are growing fast relative to some other NFL markets.

[leets]

Well, if you count as part of the Buffalo metro area cities from which people attend Bills games, then I say we should count Orlando and Savannah in Jacksonville's metro area since I have seen cars at Jags games from both locations.  That is really a silly argument.  The reality is that, while the area around Buffalo is very populous, the core area of Buffalo is shrinking and has been for years while Jacksonville has been growing. And, I wasnt trying to slight Buffalo anyway, I was just saying that we are growing fast relative to some other NFL markets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If the NFL blacks out these areas then they must be part of the Buffalo market. A 70 mile radius centered on downtown Buffalo encompases the downtown areas of Rochester, Toronto and Hamilton. These three metro areas represent about 10M people within an easy Sunday drive to a agme in Buffalo and all of these metros overlap each other's TV markets. A 70 mile radius around Jack encompases no other major population centers and adds up to only a population of just over 1M people. I am not sure how you include Orlando into Jack's market since it would require a radius of 130 miles to encompase that metro (almost twice as large).

The fact is that buffalo's market for NFL is bigger than the Census population figure even if you do not count Toronto Buffalo's market is in the 2.5M people range. That is a long way to go for J'ville to catch up. And that is assuming current trends hold up.

That being said. There is no market that can absolutely count on their team being there in the future. The NFL let teams leave the second largest market in the nation while puting a new team in one of the smallest. Perhaps their stratagy was to get small cities into the fight and make the other cities fearfull and less compacent when owners were demanding better deals. Maybe Jack is just a pawn. It seems to have worked when you look at the number of new stadiums recently built.

[RiversideGator]

leets: We can sit around and invent new metro areas all day long, but the reality is the US Census figures, if updated, would show Jacksonville now with a greater MSA population than Buffalo. I agree that the numbers of people within an hour or two count in terms ability to support a football franchise, but the MSA is what I cited previously. I also think Orlando/Savannah are considered part of Jax in terms of the NFL's TV market.

[leets]

leets:  We can sit around and invent new metro areas all day long, but the reality is the US Census figures, if updated, would show Jacksonville now with a greater MSA population than Buffalo.  I agree that the numbers of people within an hour or two count in terms ability to support a football franchise, but the MSA is what I cited previously.  I also think Orlando/Savannah are considered part of Jax in terms of the NFL's TV market.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes we can and we are talking about the ability to support a team not the size of a metro area as defined by the US census. You used Buffalo as an example of why Jack is a legitimate NFL market. I am just pointing out that the market for the team does not necessarily follow the limited range of the USCensus.

The Facts are Buffalo draws from 10M and Jack draws from less than 1.5M

Maybe Tennesee or Charlotte would be a better comparison.

[prahaboheme]

leets:  We can sit around and invent new metro areas all day long, but the reality is the US Census figures, if updated, would show Jacksonville now with a greater MSA population than Buffalo.  I agree that the numbers of people within an hour or two count in terms ability to support a football franchise, but the MSA is what I cited previously.  I also think Orlando/Savannah are considered part of Jax in terms of the NFL's TV market.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would think Tampa is more Orlando's market.

[afh]

I would think Tampa is more Orlando's market.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, part of Orlando.

[depechecureguyorl]

Orlando officially falls into both Tampa and Jacksonville's fan base. Thus, the reason the Jags will not move to Orlando and Orlando will not win an NFL expansion team.

[Brickell]

When I lived in Orlando most people I knew were Dolphin Fans.

Just saying.

I don't see why Buffalo keeps being brought up.

The Jags are definitely not moving there.

[orlandonative]

This whole argument is ridiculous. The reality is that new arena for the Magic or not we will never sell out games without winning. The population make-up for the Orlando metro is primarily transient. Most everyone in this city already has it's ties to another team from where they grew up. We would not be able to fill seats succesfully at a football game either. Tampa and Jacksonville on the other hand have more of a native Floridian population. Hate to burst the bubble of people in Jacksonville but outside of this forum you don't hear a single word about the desire to have the Jags here. It must have been a slow day at the paper. In the meantime Florida needs to stick together.

[prahaboheme]

The Magic had a lot of support in their early days, a LOT. It would be nice to get it back to there.

[orlandonative]

^agreed