USAirway's Demise Bad for Charlotte?

[PghUSA]

^^

Ok Judge just threw this out today! But the article says that there are no work stoppages and that the Union could still come to an agreement with the company despite the decision? I'm getting CONFUSED! lol.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05006/438171.stm

[monsoon]

[PghUSA]

For the Charlotte list, I have lived here long enough to know who relocated and who is home grown.

[monsoon]

[uptownliving]

This Cat has 9 lives....I don't think this is the end of USAirways...not yet.

[PghUSA]

turns out USAirways ineptitude cost it a contract with the USPS worth about $10 million a year, the postal service just revoked it!

Pittsburgh Business Times Article on Postal Service Contract

. . . and how is it that the industry insiders STILL consider Pittsburgh the "crown jewel of the USAirways system? Trust me we'd gladly give that distinction to Charlotte now that we have both Airtran and Southwest.

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette announcement of 10 flights a day for Southwest:

"The big surprise in yesterday's announcement was Philadelphia, a market now served exclusively by US Airways nonstop from Pittsburgh. It will give Southwest a toehold in the state's two largest cities.

"The Philadelphia flights I wasn't expecting, to be honest," local airline analyst Bill Lauer said. "That actually speaks eloquently about what Southwest expects out of US Airways. I think they sense weakness."

http://www.pittsburghfirst.com/pg/05049/459444.stm

Allegheny County Airport Authority board Chairman Glenn Mahone went a step further, saying the decision to fly to Philadelphia "is going to be a standing eight count" for US Airways.

"If you were in [southwest's] shoes, would you not be looking to take their market share?" asked Mahone, a Reed Smith lawyer who said he has found himself paying $475 to $675 for a flight to Philadelphia.

Michael Boyd, a Colorado-based aviation consultant, saw the Southwest move as defensive, designed to protect the carrier's position in Philadelphia.

"That's why they went into Pittsburgh. That is the crown jewel. Philadelphia-Pittsburgh is a key high-density business market. I think they needed that market to help buttress their position in Philadelphia," he said.

"I think Southwest already is considering US Airways to be dead. I don't think they have to kill off US Airways. They believe that process has already started without their help.""

[monsoon]

Not sure what this has to do with Charlotte, but it's hard to believe that anyone thinks Pittsburgh is the Crown Jewel of anything.

[PghUSA]

Not sure what this has to do with Charlotte, but it's hard to believe that anyone thinks Pittsburgh is the Crown Jewel of anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well not my words but those of "Michael Boyd, a Colorado-based aviation consultant", guess he would know.

As far as what impact there is for Charlotte, USAirways loss of $10 million a year from a "slamdunk contract" with USPS and their loss of the "crown jewel" route from Pittsburgh to Philadelphia are yet two additional nails in their collective coffin. Charlotte's premier carrier may not exist soon.

Just as an aside think of the implications when the US Postal Service calls YOU inefficient, and late. That is a first for me ever hearing that from the USPS.

[monsoon]

The Federal DOT has finished its investigation of the huge delays at Christmas time which was blamed on slowdowns by the Philly baggage handlers by USAir's Management. The DOT has said the baggage handlers (and flight attendants) were not at fault for the problems. Instead they place the blame squarely on the heads of the USAir management for not scheduling enough people in order to save money for the airline. Then to cover their tracks they blamed the problems on the unions who, at the time, were facing disbanding by the courts.

Seems the real culprits are the management. Why are we still spending taxmoney to support this crowd? I think for the long term, it would be in Charlotte's best interest to let the airline die.

[dubone]

The Federal DOT has finished its investigation of the huge delays at Christmas time which was blamed on slowdowns by the Philly baggage handlers by USAir's Management.  The DOT has said the baggage handlers (and flight attendants) were not at fault for the problems.  Instead they place the blame squarely on the heads of the USAir management for not scheduling enough people in order to save money for the airline.  Then to cover their tracks they blamed the problems on the unions who, at the time, were facing disbanding by the courts. 

Seems the real culprits are the management.  Why are we still spending taxmoney to support this crowd?  I think for the long term, it would be in Charlotte's best interest to let the airline die.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

With the new investors/owners of the business, i would hope that they do some serious house cleaning on the management side. I don't wish for the airline's demise, because it seems like it could run a LOT better and profitably if it were managed more sensibly.

It seems like all so many travel horror stories involve this airline. about ten years ago, my dad had the handle of a not-so-old, name brand, rugged suitcase fall off in transit... USAir told him that it was normal wear and tear, so had to carry it to his car (along with his other luggage) under his arms. He was so furious, and has boycotted the airline since, and he travels quite a bit. policy to save them 50-100 ends up costing them tens of thousands of dollars in lost future revenue. I wonder how many of those kinds of stories are out there.

[monsoon]

I did a considerable amount of flying on Piedmont before it was taken over by USAir and it was operated much better than after USAir took it over. "Something" was lost after that merger and it never came back.

[Miesian Corners]

I said this in another thread about NC airports. US Airways demise would be terrible for the Charlotte region and the Carolinas.

People don't appear to realize that Charlotte has more air service than any other city of its size in the world. That's right, the world! San Antoino is the 10th biggest city in the the country and doesn't have non-stops to Europe; we have three. Charlotte is second in service to Latin America and Carribbean from the U.S. (Miami is first).

So many talk about high fares. I don't dispute the fact that Charlotte is more expensive than other airports. The trouble I have is with the Wal-Martization of the aviation industry as a whole. My first commerical flight was from Charlotte to Washington, DC in 1975. The ticket cost my parents $212.00. Here we are 30 years later and I can fly there for the same price. Compare that with the price of a gallon of gas or a loaf of bread during the same period. Consumers want everything and nothing. We can't have it both ways. Even Southwest is showing signs of strain. As the most heavily unionized carrier in this country, it's enmployees are tired of making less than their counterparts while stockholders get rich. Its flight attendants went as far as taking a strike vote last year. All is not perfect at LUV. Beyond labor strife, it is facing the realities of what weather and air traffic do to a schedule now that it files east of the Mississippi in congested Northeastern airports. It was easy to be #1 in on-time performance when it had only desert heat to deal with in PHX and LAS (and the fact that it recorded its block-in and block-out times on hand-written forms filled in by its pilots...everyone else in the industry used computer times that were recorded automatically, no fudging for anyone else). Now it has snowstorms and air traffic. I'm not trying to bash Southwest. They are a great company. But they are not the panacea for the ills of the American airline industry.

If US goes away, we can enjoy connecting in ATL, ORD, DFW, IAH, and MSP. We can look forward to Southwest coming in and offering us service to Baltimore, Philadelphia and Providence and Tampa. No more service to London, Frankfurt, Munich (without US, Lufthansa is outta here), Los Angeles, San Francisco, Mexico City, Seattle, San Diego, San Juan, Kingston, San Jose, Santo Domingo...

I hear how people think that some other airline will come in and suddenly provide new service to make up for the loss. Who? No airline has any money right now to do much of anything in terms of expansion.

In terms of job losses, the 5,700 US jobs would be a drop in the bucket when compared to other employment directly tied to the US hub here. Everything from airport retail to food service to logistics and freight would be affected. We could be looking at a net loss of nearly 17,000 jobs if the airline goes bust. That'd do wonders for our economy.

[alslex1]

I hear how people think that some other airline will come in and suddenly provide new service to make up for the loss. Who? No airline has any money right now to do much of anything in terms of expansion.

[AmericanUrbanDesigner]

First off, I believe Southworst is poised to replace US in Charlotte with a major hub (why do they still use the hub system when it didn't work for others? Humm...)

Second, Lufthansa did not get the "bump" they expected from US connecting passengers but is doing well all on it's own.

Third, given the size and growth of NC's Mexican population, if US goes Mexico service will likely be replaced by the Mexican flag carrier which has already been talking about service to CLT.

[Miesian Corners]

First off, I believe Southworst is poised to replace US in Charlotte with a major hub (why do they still use the hub system when it didn't work for others?  Humm...)

Second, Lufthansa did not get the "bump" they expected from US connecting passengers but is doing well all on it's own.

Third, given the size and growth of NC's Mexican population, if US goes Mexico service will likely be replaced by the Mexican flag carrier which has already been talking about service to CLT.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Urban, Southwest doesn't hub. In fact, you cannot check bags if you're "connecting". It has "focus cities" where it provides point to point flying to numerous destinations. Even if SWA made CLT a focus city, it would amount to only 50 or 60 flights a day. Far below the 400+ daily departures US offers. We would have the same service as RDU: Tampa, Ft Lauderdale, Providence, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Birmingham and maybe Las Vegas or Los Angeles.

Fact is, no one is going to come in and take over a facility like CLT. It was designed as a connecting terminal. It has 100 gates. In contrast, the new Austin Airport has 25.

Lufthansa is here because of the Star Alliance and USA. It helps that there are lots of German companies with offices in the Carolinas, but there is not enough demand for a CLT-MUC flight without connections, even if they haven't met initial expectations with USA.

The CLT-MEX flight is doing ok, but not always full. Mexicana is a Star member and US connects passengers through the MX hub there.

[alslex1]

Even if SWA made CLT a focus city, it would amount to only 50 or 60 flights a day.  Far below the 400+ daily departures US offers.  We would have the same service as RDU:  Tampa, Ft Lauderdale, Providence, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Birmingham and maybe Las Vegas or Los Angeles.

Fact is, no one is going to come in and take over a facility like CLT.  It was designed as a connecting terminal.  It has 100 gates.  In contrast, the new Austin Airport has 25.   

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Very good points!

[AmericanUrbanDesigner]

10-4; thanks for the info.

Regarding SW...they don't consider Baltimore a "hub"? Almost all the flights between RDU and the NE and between the NE and RDU, FL, etc...go through BWI.

Looks like, smells like, acts like...a hub...

[Miesian Corners]

10-4; thanks for the info. 

Regarding SW...they don't consider Baltimore a "hub"?  Almost all the flights between RDU and the NE and between the NE and RDU, FL, etc...go through BWI. 

Looks like, smells like, acts like...a hub... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You can make a connection for yourself at BWI, but Southwest doesn't book the ticket that way. Let's say you're traveling from RDU to MCI. Southwest doesn't have a non-stop or direct flight (same plane, multiple stops) to Kansas City from Raleigh, so you decide you'll go through BWI. You (for the sake of arguement) have a lot of luggage, but you aren't able to check your bags all the way through. When you get to BWI, you have to retrieve your bags from baggage claim, go back up to ticketing, re-check them to MCI, then go through securtiy again. Not a true connection.

[AmericanUrbanDesigner]

Interesting. It seems to work well for them!

Do the other "discount" airlines operate the same way?

[monsoon]

The CEO of USAir has admitted that offshoring the help desk to low skilled low pay workers has backfired. He mentioned they are looking at bringing the call center back to NC. I'm not sure how many jobs this might be, nor where they might go. Most likely it will be Winston where they layed off everyone to send it overseas in the first place, but maybe CLT is a possibility.

[cinco]

The CEO of USAir has admitted that offshoring the help desk to low skilled low pay workers has backfired. He mentioned they are looking at bringing the call center back to NC. I'm not sure how many jobs this might be, nor where they might go. Most likely it will be Winston where they layed off everyone to send it overseas in the first place, but maybe CLT is a possibility.

i hope winston gets those jobs back... they need some love right now.

[tombarnes]

I can't imagine that the demise of USAirways could be good for Charlotte. Having said that, I'll also admit that I go out of my way to avoid flying with them. Service standards and attitudes have declined to a dangerous low. My last flights might signal a slight upward trend, but I still try to avoid them.

[CLT]

NBC News did a story tonight that pretty much indicated that USAir was going down in 2005 along with ATA and Independance Air. If this happens what does it mean for Charlotte's amazing growth? Percentage wise since 2000 it is one of the highest in the country and even in raw numbers is very high. It has been said that Charlotte's growth is dependant in part to having a major airline hub located here. i.e. Businesses like all the connections. And of course it is one of the largest employers in the region

So when US Airways fails (assuming the predictions are correct) will Charlotte's long term high growth rate be harmed?

WOW! Its almost a year and US Airways(US) is still here. ATA is a shadow of itself and I. Air will have an asset sale.

There is no denying US is an asset to Charlotte. Its seems every time there is a relocation to Charlotte the relocating company lists air service as a major factor in their decision to do business here. At the moment it looks like US will be around awhile longer. There is always the possibility Charlotte could be hubless one day and i think that may cause a hiccup in growth but there is alot of momentum and it should sustain itself.

The new CEO of US was in town recently and indicated there would be a change in the fare structure. Hopefully its one we can all live with. US is a double edged sword. Nonstop service to everywhere and ridiculous fares. To charge $880.00 dollars to fly round trip to Charleston for a day is crazy! Hopefully there will be some rationalization of fares. There should be some press soon as America West will adopt the US name early '06.

There is always the wildcard...competition! I suspect Jetblue will arrive in '06 and Southwest is a possibility.

For those who might be interested check out this interesting web site about fares and numbers of passengers that travel between city pairs:

www.faremeasure.com