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bobliocatt

By bobliocatt
in Jacksonville

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asonj23 Hamlet

asonj23

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The potential money maker for this type of venture would not be the tourism aspect, it would be the commercial. There are very limited avenues to lauch satellites into space. Everything is coordinated with NASA or the government in the states. To have another means to launch test equipment, experiments, satellites, etc. could be a huge thing.

Also, these items to be launched into space are extremely expensive and delicate and are typically engineered, designed, and constructed near launch facilities. The follow on buisness that could potentially be generated by this proposal could be quite large. Research & Development personnell , Engineers, and skilled craftsman would follow (along with their payrolls).

To get an idea of the economic impact of NASA on the state of Florida & Brevard County read here.

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The Commercial Spaceport Business

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Into the mid 1980s, the United States dominated the space launch industry with almost 100 percent of the business. However, the American decision to drop investment in expendable launch vehicle (ELV) technology in favor of space shuttles left the U.S. with a smaller portion of the commercial launch market. From the mid-1980s, the European Space Agency (ESA) gained a major proportion of the world's commercial launch business. Today, the Europeans control about 60 percent of the market and the Americans about 30 percent. Other countries such as China, Japan, India, Brazil, Italy and Israel aim for the rest with low cost launch services. Commercial launches range from $10 million for a low earth orbit (LEO) satellite up to $80 million for high altitude satellites.

Planned commercial spaceports in the United States

Around the world, the business of space is a $100 billion-a-year industry, including a great deal of money spent on rockets to launch satellites for weather forecasting, navigation, television broadcasting and telecommunications including global Internet and cell phone service. The space launch industry grows at the rate of 20 percent a year. As a result, not just governments, but commercial firms want to build launch pads to grab a share of the market.

- Mojave Civilian Aerospace Test Center, Mojave, California

- Southwest Regional Spaceport, Las Cruces, New Mexico

- Alaska Aerospace Development Corporation, Narrow Cape on Kodiak Island

- California Spaceport, Western Commercial Spaceport, Lompoc, California

- Virginia Space Flight Center Wallops Flight Facility, Wallops Island, Virginia

- Spaceport Florida Authority, Cape Canaveral, Florida

Source

I think that the space industry is bigger than some believe. Jacksonville deserves a piece of that pie.

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bobliocatt City

bobliocatt

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But this isn't NASA we're talking about. The estimated economic impact for this and the businesses associated with it is only estimated to be $6.3 to $18 million, which for example, is far less than the average call center. Right now, the only thing that would come out of this is Jax's name being associated with space.

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asonj23 Hamlet

asonj23

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Your right, this isn't NASA. My point is that this industry as a whole is huge. This proposal is only the first step, of course it isn't going to be as big as a Navy base out of the box. I believe that there would be a strong potential for this to blossom into something more than a tourist attraction over time. The state already takes the industry seriously, NASA is currently investigating other launch sites in the state (the Keys is one of them), and the industry as a whole is exploding in the private communications sector.

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McGuireV10 Crossroads

McGuireV10

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The potential money maker for this type of venture would not be the tourism aspect, it would be the commercial. There are very limited avenues to lauch satellites into space. Everything is coordinated with NASA or the government in the states. To have another means to launch test equipment, experiments, satellites, etc. could be a huge thing.

The commercial aspect is 10 or 15 years away, optimistically speaking. And hence, irrelevant to the Cecil Commerce Center.

Either you don't understand the huge and critical differences between a sub-orbital edge-of-space launch and the requirements for even low Earth orbit (let alone higher orbits required by interesting ventures like satellites), or you dramatically overestimate the speed with which the technology is expected to advance. Even Rutan said SS1 was the easy part.

As for JEDC "talking to" Virgin Galactic, I'm pretty sure they talk to a bunch of people on a daily basis. It's what they do. It makes great press, but so far I'm not seeing a realistic business case of the sort the JEDC people told us they had in mind (e.g. Daimler Chrysler was one of the examples they threw out there).

Publicity is about the only angle I can see where this would be more attractive to the city than a more traditional business -- and Jax is running pretty low on available land. There aren't many potential homes to a Daimler Chrysler sized customer left in this town. Believe me, we've been looking for land...

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asonj23 Hamlet

asonj23

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Everything I'm saying is speculation and positive thinking right now (hence the words "could", "might", and "potential"). I don't know for sure what could or could not become of a space port in Jax, nor am I an expert on sub-orbital edge-of-space launches, however, based on the literature I've read in regards to commercial (leaving the tourism aspect behind) launch sites there is a rapidly growing market out there and why not support it here in town?

Until, more detailed info comes out about it and how it can benefit Jax (other than name recognition with "space") and turn Cecil into a booming hub of industry, I'll have to take a wait and see approach.

I agree. This announcement is nothing more than a vision at this point and more informtion will be needed to decide if it could even work at Cecil. I would just hate to see an opportunity like this brushed off or ill researched as the Navy Base was.

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jlight Crossroads

jlight

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To put a bit of perspective on this...Jerry Mallot says that these talks are very, very preliminary. The Chamber talks to companies about potential projects like this ALL the time, and a fraction of those reach fruition. The first step, of course, is getting the license to do this, which the JAA is attempting to do. The economic impact of a spaceport for tourism would be relatively small.

It's also correct that putting something into orbit is a lot harder than reaching space...I think it's mach 2.5 to breach the border of space and mach 25 to enter orbit. That said, there do exist private commercial space companies that are just starting to put things into orbit. I'm too lazy to look up the name of the company right now, but some guy has this rocket called Falcon something or other which I think has already made a launch from some southeast Asian island nation. This is of cargo, of course, not people.

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McGuireV10 Crossroads

McGuireV10

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It's not as though if this comes to fruition there won't be any available 'space' left at Cecil.

Actually, you might be surprised. Much of what used to be Cecil is now part of the "Conservation Corridor" -- off-limits woods, swamps, wetlands, and other untouchable territory. I suppose it's hard to estimate how much land an operation like that would require. Land and buildings in the vicinity of the runways is in especially short supply.

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Urban_Legend Town

Urban_Legend

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Report: Commission says Florida should have private spaceport

104647_300.jpg

Scaled Composites SpaceShipOne, a privately developed manned rocket created by aviation designer Burt Rutan and funded by billionaire Paul Allen, is an example of the type of vehicle that a spaceport might attract.

http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stor...spaceport.shtml

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Urban_Legend Town

Urban_Legend

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St. Louis firm to lead Brooklyn comeback

an exerpt...

MBS will be working from a design by Pittsburgh firm Urban Design Associates. The plan envisions mixed-use housing surrounded by retail, parks and ponds. The greenspace would create a walkable environment, connecting the neighborhood to the river and to the thriving Riverside Avenue commercial district.

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=44415

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Urban_Legend Town

Urban_Legend

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Arch returns in Five Points

2a.png

2b.png

Barricades and yellow tape still line some parts of Five Points but one additional piece of construction was completed last week.

The archway of the Five Points Theater Building, sawed off when stucco was put on the face of the building, has been restored....

http://www.jaxdailyrecord.com/showstory.php?Story_id=44482

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simms3 Whistle-Stop

simms3

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Well, in today's paper, or maybe yesterday's, one or the other it really doesn't matter, but I'm sure it was in the business section, an article mentioned a company out of Pittsburgh working with the city to redevelop the Brooklyn area. I thought that the firm was originally out of St. louis instead, did anyone else catch that?

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