Charlotte Off Topic

[CLTProductions]

Sky Show Charlotte was awesomeee. City was hopping tonight

Yeah it was really amazing. So great to see that many people enjoying uptown. Random question, anyone know what the fireworks display cost the city?

[CLTNative]

It was a great show and lots of people around. Let's not start rumors, the city does not pay a dime for the show. It is paid for by the knights and wbt radio. CCCP used to do it at memorial stadium with help from Presbyterian hospital. I'd estimate around 25k for the show last night.

[tozmervo]

Do the Knights/WBT pick up the entire tab, including considerable extra police force? 

[CLTNative]

If there are any street closures, the event organizers pay for off-duty officers. The city did deem this an extraordinary event, so I guess there was some public money spent on extra security. I forgot about that part.

[Spartan]

The most unfortunate accident of Carolina geography is that Mecklenburg isn't part of South Carolina.

GOP shenanigans and the utter lack of focus on things that matter is the reason that other states (most notably SC) can poach NC companies at will. I went to a meeting a few months ago where the Governor of Virginia was the speaker and he was gloating about how easy it had been for him to poach a company from North Carolina. Although he was not explicit about why it was so easy to win the company, I have no doubt it was at least partially because of the heavy hand of GOP-controlled NCGA.

Less than 150 people have put the entire state on a bullet train to the Stone Age.

 

What's interesting to me is that when asked why, they almost always say "because a few citizens complained" or something to that effect. 

[kermit]

What's interesting to me is that when asked why, they almost always say "because a few citizens DONORS complained" or something to that effect. 

 

Fixed it for you

[mallguy]

The most unfortunate accident of Carolina geography is that Mecklenburg isn't part of South Carolina.

GOP shenanigans and the utter lack of focus on things that matter is the reason that other states (most notably SC) can poach NC companies at will. I went to a meeting a few months ago where the Governor of Virginia was the speaker and he was gloating about how easy it had been for him to poach a company from North Carolina. Although he was not explicit about why it was so easy to win the company, I have no doubt it was at least partially because of the heavy hand of GOP-controlled NCGA.

Less than 150 people have put the entire state on a bullet train to the Stone Age.

 

cltbwimob, FYI, South Carolina is a very heavily Republican state, with a much deeper GOP control of government at all levels.  Virginia has a GOP legislature that has an even larger GOP majority in the lower house than the NC one does.

 

So "the heavy hand of GOP-controlled NCGA" drives companies to relocate to neighboring states that also have GOP-controlled legislatures, and that are more GOP-controlled overall in some respects?  And "the heavy hand of GOP-controlled NCGA" drove off companies to relocate to SC, a state that until yesterday had a Confederate battle flag in front of its State House?  The NCGOP is THAT bad?

 

FYI, here are economic data about NC, SC and VA.  From best to worst, VA has the lowest unemployment and SC the highest; NC has the highest income growth and VA by far the lowest.  So neither state seems a clear winner over the others.

 

http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.nc.htm

http://www.bls.gov/regions/southeast/south_carolina.htm#eag

http://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/virginia.htm#eag

 

Based on the economic data in those official government links (from the Obama Administration), NC seems to be doing better than SC and VA in many respects. 

Edited July 11, 2015 by mallguy

[15895]

But doesn't a lot of NC's successes coming from Democratic urban areas?

[Silicon Dogwoods]

But doesn't a lot of NC's successes coming from Democratic urban areas?

 

Yes, that's mostly true. Charlotte-Mecklenburg and Raleigh-Wake together have about 20% of North Carolina's population and contribute more than 40% of the state's GDP. The dozen or so most populous NC counties have half the state's population. The remaining 87,88 counties have the other half and many of them are shrinking. This is why State Sen. Harry Brown, R-Onslow, wants Charlotte-Mecklenburg's sales tax receipts sent to the shrinking counties.

 

It's also accurate to say that the Democrats, particularly since WWII, gave us the North Carolina we have today. Democratic leadership helped ease desegregation of public places in Charlotte when Birmingham was bombing churches. At that time, Birmingham was larger than Charlotte but today is an afterthought.  Even when the school desegregation battles led to firebombs thrown at Julius Chambers, the city was held together mostly by Democrats. Democrats built RTP and the UNC system. Democratic mayor of Charlotte John Belk practically willed Charlotte Douglas into the hub that it is today.

 

But it's also fair to say that Republican-friendly policies like right-to-work laws that have given NC the lowest rate of union membership in the country make it easy for businesses to relocate here. The state's lack of restrictions on state-wide branch banking meant that Charlotte could grow into the financial center that it is today.

 

The GOP North Carolina has today is unrecognizable to the moderate country club Republicans that helped build Charlotte. I am beyond frustrated and annoyed with their malfeasance and misfeasance, their thievery, theocracy and thickheadedness. But I have no interest in becoming part of other Carolina.

 

At least, not yet.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Silicon Dogwoods

[kermit]

FYI, here are economic data about NC, SC and VA.  From best to worst, VA has the lowest unemployment and SC the highest; NC has the highest income growth and VA by far the lowest.  So neither state seems a clear winner over the others.

...

Based on the economic data in those official government links (from the Obama Administration), NC seems to be doing better than SC and VA in many respects. 

 

Income growth is a bit of a mirage. While incomes are growing, they are growing more slowly than they are in other states.  Data from the US Dept of Commerce (their Bureau of Economic Analysis) show how per capita income in NC, SC and VA compared to the national average income (100% on the graph means the state has a per capita income that is equal to the average per capita income nationwide).

Virginia's income climbed from 105% of the national average in 1996 to 112% of the average in 2009. During their era of republican dominance their income declined to 107% of the national average income in 2014. That said, VA is the only state in the South that has incomes above the national average (and thus is doing much better than NC and SC in this respect).

North and South Carolina saw steady increases in income (relative to the national average) until roughly 1997. Since then SC's income declined from 83% of the national average to 80% (the average South Carolinian makes 20% less than the average American and that number is declining). NC's income has declined from 93% of the national average in 1997 to 86% of the national average in 2014. This decline in income occurred during democrat and republican rule in NC. The republicans have done nothing to halt this decline (although the decline began during democratic dominance in NC).

These numbers depress me. NC has been faring worse than the nation for nearly two decades -- NC has regressed rather than developed over the past 20 years.

http://www.bea.gov/iTable/iTable.cfm?reqid=70&step=1&isuri=1&acrdn=4#reqid=70&step=1&isuri=1

Edited July 12, 2015 by kermit

[Guest]

NCGA's shenanigans will cost them one day but it won't be because of the Republicans. It's because of a once rural state refuses to accept the urban areas are the economic engines of the state. They are literally taking away our wealth and redistributing it to the rural counties even if our populations are going to explode. They are taking 50$ million of our taxes when we desperately need the resources to reform and plan for these population changes. The state institutions are too top heavy and unless Charlotte can step up to plate, they will lead us into stagnation!

[mallguy]

Kermit, wow, great post and that's really shocking.

I would assume (without a basis that I have verified) that VA has done well because of DC-area Federal government employment.  I would guess (again, without a basis that I have verified) that the rest of the state has fared more like NC and SC.

I'm shocked to see NC doing so badly.  I'm also depressed to see SC doing not much better now than it did when I was born--particularly as the US as a whole isn't doing particularly well.

I would guess (again, without a basis) that the low education levels in all of these states (outside the major urban areas in each state) are what's holding things back, but who knows.

[cltbwimob]

The most unfortunate accident of Carolina geography is that Mecklenburg isn't part of South Carolina.

GOP shenanigans and the utter lack of focus on things that matter is the reason that other states (most notably SC) can poach NC companies at will. I went to a meeting a few months ago where the Governor of Virginia was the speaker and he was gloating about how easy it had been for him to poach a company from North Carolina. Although he was not explicit about why it was so easy to win the company, I have no doubt it was at least partially because of the heavy hand of GOP-controlled NCGA.

Less than 150 people have put the entire state on a bullet train to the Stone Age.

 

cltbwimob, FYI, South Carolina is a very heavily Republican state, with a much deeper GOP control of government at all levels.  Virginia has a GOP legislature that has an even larger GOP majority in the lower house than the NC one does.

 

So "the heavy hand of GOP-controlled NCGA" drives companies to relocate to neighboring states that also have GOP-controlled legislatures, and that are more GOP-controlled overall in some respects?  And "the heavy hand of GOP-controlled NCGA" drove off companies to relocate to SC, a state that until yesterday had a Confederate battle flag in front of its State House?  The NCGOP is THAT bad?

 

FYI, here are economic data about NC, SC and VA.  From best to worst, VA has the lowest unemployment and SC the highest; NC has the highest income growth and VA by far the lowest.  So neither state seems a clear winner over the others.

 

http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.nc.htm

http://www.bls.gov/regions/southeast/south_carolina.htm#eag

http://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/virginia.htm#eag

 

Based on the economic data in those official government links (from the Obama Administration), NC seems to be doing better than SC and VA in many respects. 

 

The most unfortunate accident of Carolina geography is that Mecklenburg isn't part of South Carolina.

GOP shenanigans and the utter lack of focus on things that matter is the reason that other states (most notably SC) can poach NC companies at will. I went to a meeting a few months ago where the Governor of Virginia was the speaker and he was gloating about how easy it had been for him to poach a company from North Carolina. Although he was not explicit about why it was so easy to win the company, I have no doubt it was at least partially because of the heavy hand of GOP-controlled NCGA.

Less than 150 people have put the entire state on a bullet train to the Stone Age.

 

cltbwimob, FYI, South Carolina is a very heavily Republican state, with a much deeper GOP control of government at all levels.  Virginia has a GOP legislature that has an even larger GOP majority in the lower house than the NC one does.

 

So "the heavy hand of GOP-controlled NCGA" drives companies to relocate to neighboring states that also have GOP-controlled legislatures, and that are more GOP-controlled overall in some respects?  And "the heavy hand of GOP-controlled NCGA" drove off companies to relocate to SC, a state that until yesterday had a Confederate battle flag in front of its State House?  The NCGOP is THAT bad?

 

FYI, here are economic data about NC, SC and VA.  From best to worst, VA has the lowest unemployment and SC the highest; NC has the highest income growth and VA by far the lowest.  So neither state seems a clear winner over the others.

 

http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.nc.htm

http://www.bls.gov/regions/southeast/south_carolina.htm#eag

http://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/virginia.htm#eag

 

Based on the economic data in those official government links (from the Obama Administration), NC seems to be doing better than SC and VA in many respects. 

 

Mallguy,

I am well aware of the makeup of the governments of VA, NC, and SC and I understand that if Mecklenburg was part of SC it would still fall under the auspices of a Republican legislature.  The difference between VA/SC GOP legislatures and NC GOP legislatures is that the former two are seemingly pragmatic and responsive to the needs of their respective constituencies whereas the latter is anything but pragmatic and in many cases openly hostile toward parts of its constituency especially the urban voters.  This is specifically why I find myself wishing Charlotte/Mecklenburg was part of the "other" Carolina, because South Carolina's state government is not nearly as hostile to their urban areas as the NCGOP is to theirs.  Plus SC is not a "Dillon's Rule" state which would be a  benefit for Charlotte.

As for the macroeconomic data you mentioned, I am not sure that is germane to the point I was originally trying to make in my post.  However, when evaluating employment data, unemployment rates and income growth rates hardly paint a full picture of economic health.  Indeed, when evaluating employment data, one should at a minimum factor in labor force participation rates, underemployment/part time work, and wages, in addition to unemployment rates (U3) otherwise the argument is incomplete and can lead to some false conclusions. 

If you were to compare the economic health of Virginia and North Carolina based on macroeconomic employment data sets, Virginia is, in fact, the clear winner.  Unemployment is indeed lower in Virginia as you correctly noted; however labor force participation rate is also higher (VA-66.1% vs NC-60.5%), underemployment is lower (VA-3.8% vs NC-4.6%; derived from BLS U5 and U6 data), and median wage is much higher (VA~67000 vs NC~42000).   As for growing wage rates I did not see them listed in the data you provided, but the data I reviewed suggests that wages in Virginia are actually growing faster than North Carolina's and that North Carolina's wages are in decline.   All the data listed is published or derived from BLS data with the exception of median wages which is Census/American Community Survey data.  In summary, there is no comparison in the overall economic health of the two states based on these data. 

North Carolina does seem to have a healthier employment situation than South Carolina as it beats South Carolina in every one of the aforementioned categories of employment utilization.  However, the median wage in South Carolina has purportedly eclipsed North Carolina median wage according to Census/ACS data. 

A couple of other notes I would like to make is that of the three states-VA, NC, and SC- North Carolina is the only state which actually has a labor force that is in a numerical decline, not just a percentage decline (see BLS data).  And North Carolina is the only state to have wages that are in a statistically significant numerical decline (see attached Census data file).   Even North Carolina's precipitous decline in unemployment rate-often hailed as a crowning achievement of NCGOP policy- belies the true extent of the economic recovery occurring in the state as there is a positive correlation between the loss in unemployment benefits in 2013 and the decrease in labor force utilization.  In short, NC is not doing as well as you think it is, and contrary to the claims of the NCGOP, much of the recovery in the state has occurred despite their economic policies rather than as a result of them.

Yes, the NCGOP is THAT bad, and I would love to have a more pragmatic and less urban-hostile government like the one found just on the other side of the southern border of Mecklenburg County.  I rail against the NCGOP not because I am anti-GOP; I am actually a Republican. I rail against the NCGOP because they are far-right, anti-urban, seeming demigods that have shown time and again that they will stop at nothing to advance their agenda, run roughshod over their opposition, attempt to consolidate all power in themselves, and, in general, engage in tactics that subvert process.  I can provide a litany of examples for you, but that is beyond the scope of this post.

http://www.bls.gov/lau/staadata.txt

http://www.bls.gov/lau/stalt.htm

Copy of statemhi2_13.xls

Edited July 13, 2015 by cltbwimob

[ah59396]

The re-design looks good Neo, nice job.

[go_vertical]

Totally random question here but I was hoping some of you guys might be able to help me out. My girlfriend and I are planning on spending a few days in Nashville and I was wondering if any of you would have some suggestions as to what area/neighborhood to stay in. Neither of us have been there so we're going in blind. We pretty much want to forget about the car until it's time to come back home. Hoping to just stroll around, hit up a live show or two, shop a bit, and take advantage of whatever transit is available. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

[Neo]

Totally random question here but I was hoping some of you guys might be able to help me out. My girlfriend and I are planning on spending a few days in Nashville and I was wondering if any of you would have some suggestions as to what area/neighborhood to stay in. Neither of us have been there so we're going in blind. We pretty much want to forget about the car until it's time to come back home. Hoping to just stroll around, hit up a live show or two, shop a bit, and take advantage of whatever transit is available. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

I would probably visit the Nashville coffee house and pose this question. Lots of active folks in that forum as well and I'm sure they would be very willing to help a brother out! 

[nonillogical]

Totally random question here but I was hoping some of you guys might be able to help me out. My girlfriend and I are planning on spending a few days in Nashville and I was wondering if any of you would have some suggestions as to what area/neighborhood to stay in. Neither of us have been there so we're going in blind. We pretty much want to forget about the car until it's time to come back home. Hoping to just stroll around, hit up a live show or two, shop a bit, and take advantage of whatever transit is available. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

I enjoyed staying in the West End, it felt like a bigger grown-up NoDa, and Exit/In is a good divey music venue there. Downtown is pretty touristy and you could easily just take a cab there one day and get your fill in an afternoon. 

[go_vertical]

Thanks for the suggestion nonillogical. That sounds right up our alley and everyone that has replied over on the Nashville thread echoed what you said. Pretty good hotel deals in that neighborhood too.

[sakami]

Looking for help getting the Charlotte feed for Feedly. All the website changes look great but somehow the feed has changed and now I'm not seeing any new posts. Any tips, or even just the feed address, would be appreciated as I cannot survive much longer without my UP fix. 

[tozmervo]

Looking for help getting the Charlotte feed for Feedly. All the website changes look great but somehow the feed has changed and now I'm not seeing any new posts. Any tips, or even just the feed address, would be appreciated as I cannot survive much longer without my UP fix. 

A UP email just went out that said the RSS feeds for posts are gone (too expensive/too underused), but you can still get RSS updates for new topicsm by clicking on the little orange RSS icon in the bottom right of a page listing topics. 

[Neo]

Looking for help getting the Charlotte feed for Feedly. All the website changes look great but somehow the feed has changed and now I'm not seeing any new posts. Any tips, or even just the feed address, would be appreciated as I cannot survive much longer without my UP fix. 

A UP email just went out that said the RSS feeds for posts are gone (too expensive/too underused), but you can still get RSS updates for new topicsm by clicking on the little orange RSS icon in the bottom right of a page listing topics. 

You can click the bright green Follow button at the top of each forum or topic to choose immediate or delayed (daily/weekly compilation) email notifications of new content. This has always been there, but is now the direct replacement for the RSS feeds. I won't say that RSS feeds for posts are gone for good, but at the moment I can't make a sound judgement to go through the expense for how little it was used. RSS feeds are how I consume news as well so it was a bummer for me as well...but I am willing to try this new (old) method. 

[tozmervo]

I have a love/hate relationship with tapatalk, so looking forward to trying the new mobile website. 

[emansius]

Super petty gripe, but is there any plan for the city to update its website?

I'm pretty sure even a mediocre computer science major could design something more appealing.

[tozmervo]

It's been a while now, but I was told that it would be updated to be similar to Mecklenburg's update of 2-3 months ago. http://charmeck.org/mecklenburg/county/Pages/Home.aspx

[Spartan]

Super petty gripe, but is there any plan for the city to update its website?

I'm pretty sure even a mediocre computer science major could design something more appealing.

Yep. The County already overhauled their half of the website.

 

 

The most unfortunate accident of Carolina geography is that Mecklenburg isn't part of South Carolina.

GOP shenanigans and the utter lack of focus on things that matter is the reason that other states (most notably SC) can poach NC companies at will. I went to a meeting a few months ago where the Governor of Virginia was the speaker and he was gloating about how easy it had been for him to poach a company from North Carolina. Although he was not explicit about why it was so easy to win the company, I have no doubt it was at least partially because of the heavy hand of GOP-controlled NCGA.

Less than 150 people have put the entire state on a bullet train to the Stone Age.

 

cltbwimob, FYI, South Carolina is a very heavily Republican state, with a much deeper GOP control of government at all levels.  Virginia has a GOP legislature that has an even larger GOP majority in the lower house than the NC one does.

 

So "the heavy hand of GOP-controlled NCGA" drives companies to relocate to neighboring states that also have GOP-controlled legislatures, and that are more GOP-controlled overall in some respects?  And "the heavy hand of GOP-controlled NCGA" drove off companies to relocate to SC, a state that until yesterday had a Confederate battle flag in front of its State House?  The NCGOP is THAT bad?

 

FYI, here are economic data about NC, SC and VA.  From best to worst, VA has the lowest unemployment and SC the highest; NC has the highest income growth and VA by far the lowest.  So neither state seems a clear winner over the others.

 

http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.nc.htm

http://www.bls.gov/regions/southeast/south_carolina.htm#eag

http://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/virginia.htm#eag

 

Based on the economic data in those official government links (from the Obama Administration), NC seems to be doing better than SC and VA in many respects. 

 

The most unfortunate accident of Carolina geography is that Mecklenburg isn't part of South Carolina.

GOP shenanigans and the utter lack of focus on things that matter is the reason that other states (most notably SC) can poach NC companies at will. I went to a meeting a few months ago where the Governor of Virginia was the speaker and he was gloating about how easy it had been for him to poach a company from North Carolina. Although he was not explicit about why it was so easy to win the company, I have no doubt it was at least partially because of the heavy hand of GOP-controlled NCGA.

Less than 150 people have put the entire state on a bullet train to the Stone Age.

 

cltbwimob, FYI, South Carolina is a very heavily Republican state, with a much deeper GOP control of government at all levels.  Virginia has a GOP legislature that has an even larger GOP majority in the lower house than the NC one does.

 

So "the heavy hand of GOP-controlled NCGA" drives companies to relocate to neighboring states that also have GOP-controlled legislatures, and that are more GOP-controlled overall in some respects?  And "the heavy hand of GOP-controlled NCGA" drove off companies to relocate to SC, a state that until yesterday had a Confederate battle flag in front of its State House?  The NCGOP is THAT bad?

 

FYI, here are economic data about NC, SC and VA.  From best to worst, VA has the lowest unemployment and SC the highest; NC has the highest income growth and VA by far the lowest.  So neither state seems a clear winner over the others.

 

http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.nc.htm

http://www.bls.gov/regions/southeast/south_carolina.htm#eag

http://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/virginia.htm#eag

 

Based on the economic data in those official government links (from the Obama Administration), NC seems to be doing better than SC and VA in many respects. 

 

Mallguy,

I am well aware of the makeup of the governments of VA, NC, and SC and I understand that if Mecklenburg was part of SC it would still fall under the auspices of a Republican legislature.  The difference between VA/SC GOP legislatures and NC GOP legislatures is that the former two are seemingly pragmatic and responsive to the needs of their respective constituencies whereas the latter is anything but pragmatic and in many cases openly hostile toward parts of its constituency especially the urban voters.  This is specifically why I find myself wishing Charlotte/Mecklenburg was part of the "other" Carolina, because South Carolina's state government is not nearly as hostile to their urban areas as the NCGOP is to theirs.  Plus SC is not a "Dillon's Rule" state which would be a  benefit for Charlotte.

As for the macroeconomic data you mentioned, I am not sure that is germane to the point I was originally trying to make in my post.  However, when evaluating employment data, unemployment rates and income growth rates hardly paint a full picture of economic health.  Indeed, when evaluating employment data, one should at a minimum factor in labor force participation rates, underemployment/part time work, and wages, in addition to unemployment rates (U3) otherwise the argument is incomplete and can lead to some false conclusions. 

If you were to compare the economic health of Virginia and North Carolina based on macroeconomic employment data sets, Virginia is, in fact, the clear winner.  Unemployment is indeed lower in Virginia as you correctly noted; however labor force participation rate is also higher (VA-66.1% vs NC-60.5%), underemployment is lower (VA-3.8% vs NC-4.6%; derived from BLS U5 and U6 data), and median wage is much higher (VA~67000 vs NC~42000).   As for growing wage rates I did not see them listed in the data you provided, but the data I reviewed suggests that wages in Virginia are actually growing faster than North Carolina's and that North Carolina's wages are in decline.   All the data listed is published or derived from BLS data with the exception of median wages which is Census/American Community Survey data.  In summary, there is no comparison in the overall economic health of the two states based on these data. 

North Carolina does seem to have a healthier employment situation than South Carolina as it beats South Carolina in every one of the aforementioned categories of employment utilization.  However, the median wage in South Carolina has purportedly eclipsed North Carolina median wage according to Census/ACS data. 

A couple of other notes I would like to make is that of the three states-VA, NC, and SC- North Carolina is the only state which actually has a labor force that is in a numerical decline, not just a percentage decline (see BLS data).  And North Carolina is the only state to have wages that are in a statistically significant numerical decline (see attached Census data file).   Even North Carolina's precipitous decline in unemployment rate-often hailed as a crowning achievement of NCGOP policy- belies the true extent of the economic recovery occurring in the state as there is a positive correlation between the loss in unemployment benefits in 2013 and the decrease in labor force utilization.  In short, NC is not doing as well as you think it is, and contrary to the claims of the NCGOP, much of the recovery in the state has occurred despite their economic policies rather than as a result of them.

Yes, the NCGOP is THAT bad, and I would love to have a more pragmatic and less urban-hostile government like the one found just on the other side of the southern border of Mecklenburg County.  I rail against the NCGOP not because I am anti-GOP; I am actually a Republican. I rail against the NCGOP because they are far-right, anti-urban, seeming demigods that have shown time and again that they will stop at nothing to advance their agenda, run roughshod over their opposition, attempt to consolidate all power in themselves, and, in general, engage in tactics that subvert process.  I can provide a litany of examples for you, but that is beyond the scope of this post.

http://www.bls.gov/lau/staadata.txt

http://www.bls.gov/lau/stalt.htm

Copy of statemhi2_13.xls

This is a great rant. But to be fair, the South Carolina government treats all it's urban areas equally bad, regardless of size. So on the one side there's parity, and on the other side there's still no resources for cities.