UCF is planning football stadium

[bobliocatt]

No doubt, Orlando's market may be large enough, but there are several factors that stand in its way, mostly Florida already having three teams, all of which consider Orlando as a secondary market. Then again, while the city may have the population, a large percentage of its citizens are only there short term before moving on to someplace else. Unlike the rust belt cities, which now have football history and tranditin aspects to supporting their teams, Orlando could have big problems here.

Another problem is the NFL isn't planning to expand anytime soon, other than placing a team in LA. Then there's the Citrus Bowl itself. Point blank, its a dump. It would have to be completely torn down and built from the ground up, if the city could overcome all of the other factors. Then to top it off, the NFL isn't planning to expand anytime soon, if ever, other than placing a team in LA. Based on all of these factors, although Orlando may be larger, there are several better options in other regions across the US for a team, if the league expands again in another 20 years or so. So at this time keeping the Magic should be top priority.

[cwetteland]

Regarding an NFL francise, I was under the impression that the Bucs had some territorial rights to Orlando such that any expansion in Orlando would have to be approved by the Bucs organization. ..... and I don't think that's happening. From my understanding, the only NFL prospect for Orlando would be a Buccaneer move. ... and that ain't happening either.

So that leaves the Citrus Bowl with CapOne, Champs, and the Classic for now, with the CapOne commitment threatening a move. Benefits of an upgrade would be to a) keep CapOne and B) possibly lure a NCAA Conference Championship. ConfUSA will have it's championships at one of the team's home field. They may go the way of SEC and ACC and have a fixed Championship location. We'd have a shot with a better stadium.

UCF has to do what's best for the School

[PghUSA]

I can appreciate all that research and I do agree that some of the markets in the NE and MW are 2 to 5 hours away (Tampa is 2 hours away from Orlando and Miami is 5 hours away from Orlando).

The Clevelands, Chicagos, Pittsburghs, Detroits are "traditional" markets for the NFL and when I say that there are whole swaths of areas that are ADDICTED to NFL football up there (the Pittsburgh/Cleveland I-76 corridor is one of them). Both Cleveland and Pittsburgh have not had a under-capacity crowd for generations now. There was a near riot when the Browns moved to become the Ravens look how quickly the NFL "fixed" that. They still haven't "fixed" the 2nd largest market in the U.S. but if the Browns (which were at best a marginal franchise the last 30 years) leave, Cleveland gets another team pronto.

It is all about TV areas, but up in the Ohio Valley/Great Lakes Region pro football (look at Green Bay for example) is the lifeblood of those areas. TV area and ratings matter still but there is another factor up there then simply how close Cleveland Pittsburgh and Buffalo are to each other. Even when the Steelers had a 6-10 season or a 5-11 season back in the late 1980s and last year, the stadium was packed. Tampa, Miami, Jacksonville can't say that yet. Think about it this way if you have a product that is popular in the #1 market but is causing a riot in the #23 market which is 2 hours from the #17 market, where are you going to do the most in the least amount of time? The Green Bays, Chicagos, Pittsburghs, Clevelands etc. have that kind of passion for the NFL--they are the cradle of football as well. First game, first pro contract, first hand signals, first jersey numbers first . . . Don Shula, Bob Grise, Joe Namath, Johnny Unitas, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Jeff Hostetler, Ben Rothlesberger, Curtis Martin, Jerome Bettis, Jack Lambert, Ty Law, Nick Goings, Mike Ditka etc. etc. all are from a 500 mile stretch from Indiana through Ohio and S. Michigan to Central Pennsylvania.

I realize Florida and So Cal as well as Texas/Oklahoma have traditions of their own but Pittsburgh alone has produced 10 super bowl MVPs, include Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, and central Pa. the number climbs into the 20s (if my math is right). My point here isn't to put Florida down, just to say that a 3 county area that produces a Montana, Unitias, Marino, Jim Kelly, Curtis Martin and Marc Bulger is a little football crazier then markets of similar size or even larger. The big question is wether that translates from HS games to NFL games and in the Ohio Valley and Mid-west it does. There is a reason the NFL Hall of Fame is halfway between Pittsburgh and Cleveland. Florida and SoCal if they continue on their current course could very well eclipse the Ohio Valley but it is still a few years off in my mind.

[GreenHills]

I agree that NFL football is hugely popular in areas of the northeast and midwest, but I also think it's pretty popular in the south as well. I tried to find a map of NFL ratings by region, but I could not find one on the internet. I believe I saw a map not too long ago and I believe the midwest had the highest ratings, followed by the northeast. However, the ratings in the south were pretty good and really not that far behind the ratings in the midwest (if my memory is correct). I think I might have seen the map in a Sports Illustrated I was reading in a waiting room a couple of weeks ago (the issue had a bunch of maps that showed all kinds of different things like how many players were in the NFL from each state). Also, although different, college football is very popular in the south (not that it doesn't do very well in OH and PA as well).

I've never tried to imply that getting an NFL team wasn't a long shot for Orlando, only that Orlando should be more competive for getting a team than many people think. LA is obviously the most likely market to get a new team, but after that what other markets should be ahead of Orlando? I'm not sure if they're even interested, but Portland could make a decent case for an NFL team. I don't really see Sacramento getting a team, but I think their basketball team does pretty well, so maybe a football team would do alright as well too. Every other market gets smaller and smaller and most are in regions where the NFL is less popular than it is in the south.

As for producing NFL talent, Florida has been as good as any other state for at least the last two decades (in that SI article, I believe Louisiana was actually number 1 per capita). However, I don't really see what this has to do with how a pro team would do. Tampa produces some of the best baseball players in the country but this hasn't translated into a successful baseball franchise for Tampa (at least so far). Massachusetts produces very few DI football recruits, but that doesn't mean Boston's NFL franchise isn't tremendously popular.

[bobliocatt]

San Antonio/Austin (two large nearby cities only served by NBA in a football rich state), Las Vegas (if it can overcome the gambling issue), Norfolk (largest metro with no team) & Toronto, are a couple of places that immediately come to mind where an NFL team would be much better off than going to Orlando. Its widely known that all four of these cities want a team, especially Norfolk, Toronto & San Antonio. Birmingham has dreams of having one also. Although its much smaller, it would be situation like Jacksonville, where its the only sport in town and in the center of a football rich region (Alabama). Even plaing a third team in metro New York or a second in Chicago might be better options, considering their large populations.

[PghUSA]

Never realized Louisiana was #1 per capita for NFL talent, I do know that Pennsylvania has more NFL Hall of Famers then any other state. Pittsburgh metro has more then any other metro area . . . and with Dan Marino, Curtis Martin, Ty Law etc. on the way the state and metro won't be passed anytime soon.

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/otherlists.jsp

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/birthplace.jsp

I will say the south--when taken as a whole--tends to have a greater stake in college ball, and about the same in HS ball in Texas, bama and Florida. Again though the old legacy teams of the NFL do get a pass--wether right or wrong--you can't take the Browns out of Cleveland as the NFL learned.

Give it 20 years or so as Florida denses up and many of the snowbirds put down roots and have kids that put down roots and we might be dealing with a dynamic that demands a 4th NFL franchise for the state (a record by the way!).

[sunshine]

From today Orlando Sentinel

Sierra Club blasts UCF for stadium plans

UCF's sudden drive to build an on-campus stadium has opened the door for a wider challenge to the school's controversial growth plan.

In a legal petition delivered to the school on Monday, the Central Florida Sierra Club and a nearby resident challenged UCF's development blueprint. They outlined a host of concerns, from inadequate on-campus housing plans to calls for more road and flooding studies. It also seizes on a failure by UCF to make any mention of a new stadium in its long-range plans.

UCF's master plan, approved in November, "is incomplete and deficient on its face for omitting any reference to or data on the University's recently disclosed plans to construct an on-campus football stadium," read one of petition's first complaints.

It's unclear whether the challenge will derail UCF's hope to play in a campus stadium as early as 2006, but the last formal challenge to its growth blueprint took more than a year to settle. It's also uncertain if a protest to that blueprint would have even emerged without the last-minute stadium issue.

Even before news of the stadium, the Central Florida Sierra Club was considering challenging the blueprint, club official Marge Holt said. "But the stadium is more of a reason to do it. There's a whole host of issues that will be triggered by that stadium."

Lighting, noise, traffic and flooding issues are just a few of them, said nearby resident Susan Eberle, a longtime critic of the UCF plan.

According to school officials, the stadium was left out of its growth plan because, until recently, it was a financial impossibility. A 2002 cost estimate of a concrete-based stadium pegged it at more than $100 million.

Weeks before the master plan was approved Nov. 30, UCF officials learned of the option of building a more affordable prefabricated steel stadium for roughly $40 million -- less than half the previously projected cost.

It wasn't until school officials met with a stadium construction company in early December -- after the master plan was approved -- that it became a truly viable option, President John Hitt said recently.

UCF has played 26 years at the Florida Citrus Bowl downtown. News that UCF may abandon the 69-year-old stadium triggered speculation that Mayor Buddy Dyer may have a difficult fight to secure as much as $150 million to renovate it.

Hitt plans to ask trustees to approve exploration of the campus stadium idea at their Jan. 18 meeting.

It's unclear if adding a stadium on campus would trigger a new round of public master-plan hearings. School officials are determining that now.

When trustees approved the master plan Nov. 30 -- before the 45,000-seat stadium was announced -- nearby residents and environmentalists objected to what they said was the plan's lack of permanent protection for sensitive campus habitat and what they deemed as inadequate flood plain and traffic studies.

Among other concerns, critics also objected to a golf course planned for campus and a public-input process that they said failed to allow for timely feedback on the planning document.

UCF officials and local supporters said the school went beyond what state law called for in allowing public input.

William F. Merck, UCF's lead master plan official, said many issues raised by Eberle and the Sierra Club -- such as a permanent protection status for the campus arboretum and the golf course -- were settled in the school's favor during the last master-plan process.

The Sierra Club and Eberle challenged UCF in its last master-plan process, pressing similar flooding, traffic and housing concerns. Florida Cabinet members finally settled the dispute with an agreement both sides signed off on last April.

Merck and UCF attorney Scott Cole said school officials still need to pour over the specific challenges to determine which ones are worth taking to a state mediator, the next step in the formal process.

As to whether that could slow down UCF's optimistic goal of kicking a field goal through its own stadium goal posts in 2006, Merck said, "We would hope not."

Nearby Oviedo resident and UCF graduate Kevin Reis said the Sierra Club and Eberle speak for only a vocal minority, and many neighbors are pleased by UCF's growth plans, including a new stadium.

"I'm very happy with what's going on," said the1977 graduate. "I'm walking on cloud nine" at the prospect of a stadium.

[PghUSA]

Looping the 408 up and back around I think is a great way to answer the traffic questions, you may think that having that all set for now is good, but the CB you can see from the 408 and I-4, the UCF stadium will not be that close to 417 or 408.

[DHall]

PGH: Tidy Bowl is a toilet cleaner.

[demon]

I don't know why no one has thought of sprucing up Tinker Field in an attempt to bring in a baseball club for spring training. I think it would be a nice touch to downtown Orlando if one of the major northern city's teams trained downtown in the spring. Just imagine the Cubs or Red Sox playing games downtown.

[cwetteland]

Tinker has been a spring training field. Twins pulled out years ago.

[demon]

Tinker has been a spring training field.  Twins pulled out years ago.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Which is why it should be spruced up.

[GreenHills]

COMMENTARY: JAKE VEST

Real colleges need football stadiums

Jake Vest

January 13, 2005

The "Vol Walk" is a tradition at my alma mater, the University of Tennessee.

Football players stroll from the dorm to the stadium, led by the band and the cheerleaders, while fans line up along the street, hollering and carrying on.

It's a spirited event. As Winter Park businessman Bubba Brewer once said to Orlando banker Charlie Brinkley and a Eustis journalist -- me -- "If that don't get you percolatin', your pot must be unplugged."

What were three Central Floridians doing standing under the same tree in Knoxville, Tenn., 650 miles away? We never stand under the same tree here. We rarely see each other, not being exactly of the same socioeconomic clan -- I don't have my own business or my own bank.

We are three branches of a widely scattered, highly diverse family, joined at the football stadium. It's the only excuse we have to go back to campus, relive ancient times, point at the buildings in which we once did battle with Western Civ and Psych 1110.

That's what college traditions do -- they take a bunch of thems and turn them into an us. Ask any Notre Dame Golden Domer how that works. Ask a Husker, a Gamecock, a Badger or even a Maryville College Scottie.

You don't have to ask Gators -- they'll volunteer the information whether you want to hear it or not.

The University of Central Florida could use a little more of that in-your-face, we're No. 1, rah-rah attitude. That sense of self is built on traditions, things such as the "Vol Walk" and other campus game day goings-on that keep the alumni in the family.

Of course, that particular event would be a little tougher for UCF. The Golden Knights play home games at the Citrus Bowl downtown, a long haul from the east Orange campus.

They could still do it, but the band and the team probably would have to hit the road early Thursday afternoon to make a Saturday kickoff, regrouping after all the traffic lights on Alafaya Trail, then lining up at tollbooths, while team managers distribute quarters, then merging in and out of traffic on the GreeneWay.

The ballplayers could probably handle it, but five or six home games would be tough on a tuba player, what with the "home field" being so far from home.

That's a pretty funny situation, one that the Gators and 'Noles and various Others who run things around here can get a good giggle out of. And that is exactly why it is a situation that needs to be remedied.

The days of giggling at UCF are over. It is a major university, it is ours, and it ought to provide its students with whatever the other universities can provide -- including a college rah-rah atmosphere on Saturdays.

UCF President John Hitt is pushing for an on-campus stadium that would help do just that. It is a large step in the right direction.

This does not have to be justified economically. If that were the only standard, most colleges also would have trouble justifying the economics department.

Some say it will create traffic. Let's hope so. That means fans, which means support -- the locals can adjust. What about the negative impact on downtown Orlando? Why is that UCF's problem? UCF is nowhere near downtown Orlando; it's a good two-day march for the average tuba player.

The Sierra Club is against the project. Now there's a shocker. When was the last time the Sierra Club was in favor of anything? It was also opposed to your house and to the road you live on and probably to the building you work in and the job you do. Not to mention flush toilets and internal combustion engines.

Not that the group doesn't have good points, but life is a compromise.

Find a way. Get the money. Do it.

This is not really a complicated issue, regardless of how much it is being complicated by people who have other agendas. The reason UCF should have an on-campus stadium is as clear as it is obvious: because the University of Florida has one. And Florida State and others competing for hearts and minds and money.

Until UCF has its own, that is just one more little bit of college atmosphere that those students have to do without. And if we really want what is best for our students, they shouldn't have to do without anything other students have.

Build it now, and while you are at it, plant a few trees. Those students will need some shade to sit it 40 years from now to celebrate their own traditions.

You can contact Jake Vest at [email protected] or call 1-800-347-6868, Ext. 5689, and leave a message.

[PghUSA]

That's a great article that really goes to the heart of everything college ball can be, it is different then the NFL, I miss the fact that Pittsburgh did away with its on-campus stadium in 2000 (or was it 2001?). That said, Miami has been successful for decades without ever having an on campus facility. Not a prereq by any means, nice to have though. Enjoyed the article!

[Brickell]

UCF is no Univ of Tennessee. Do we really expect a building that takes up so much room on campus, that plays host to events maybe 10 times a year, max, to really make such a big difference to campus life?

An on-campus stadium is nice, but it is not the be-all of the college experience. Maybe some more dorms surrounding a central green would get what you're looking for at a cheaper price.

[GreenHills]

UCF is no Univ of Tennessee.  Do we really expect a building that takes up so much room on campus, that plays host to events maybe 10 times a year, max, to really make such a big difference to campus life?

An on-campus stadium is nice, but it is not the be-all of the college experience.    Maybe some more dorms surrounding a central green would get what you're looking for at a cheaper price.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

UCF: Enrollment: 42,568 (fall 2004). Average H.S. GPA: 3.84. Average SAT: 1186.

http://www.iroffice.ucf.edu/character/current.html

UT: Enrollment: 27,281 (fall 2003, UT didn't post numbers for fall 2004 yet). Average H.S. GPA: 3.40. Average SAT: 1116

http://oira.tennessee.edu/facts/fb/fb03/student.pdf

I think these numbers show UCF compares very well with UT. Of course, UCF does not yet have the tradition or fan support that UT does (their stadium seats something like over 100,000 fans, and it's always full). The whole point is that UCF is undergoing a period of transition from being a commuter school to becoming a major public university. The campus is rapidly changing. It didn't even exist a few decades ago, it looks nothing like it did a decade ago, and it continues to rapidly expand (the possible new medical school and hospital, all the new dorms, the stadium, and lots of other non-football stadium athletic facilities).

Also, funding from dorms comes from a different source than the funding for the football stadium. By law, the stadium has to be funded through private donations, ticket sales, and sales from concessions. I'm not exactly sure how dorm room construction is funded (whether it's through money from the state, bonds that are repaid through dorm fees, or some combination of the two), but I do know it's from a different source. Perhaps in a perfect world donors would always give all they could strictly for academic purposes, but in the real world many donors gets excited by the idea of having a school with a tradition like UT (or even 1/2 the tradition of UT) and donate money they otherwise would not. The key is that donations for the stadium are not zero-sum (every dollar that is going to the stadium is not being taken away from the school because much of the money would not have been given in the first place).

[cwetteland]

Trustees to Consider Feasibility Study for Football Stadium

Jan. 14, 2005

By UCF Staff

The University of Central Florida Board of Trustees will consider approving a feasibility study for an on-campus football stadium during its meeting Tuesday, Jan. 18.

The full Board of Trustees will meet at 2:30 p.m. in the Cape Florida Ballroom of the Student Union. Meetings of the board

[sunshine]

UCF moves forward with stadium study; endorses med school

The University of Central Florida board of trustees voted unanimously this week to go forward with a feasibility study for a new football stadium and learned that early results of another study appear to support the need for a medical school.

UCF wants to construct a 50,000-seat stadium on its main campus. It would cost about $40 million to build and could be ready by the 2006 football season.

President John Hitt and trustees Chairman Dick Nunis toured stadiums at the universities of Louisville and Kentucky last week, and both believe a similar stadium would suite UCF.

If UCF gives the stadium a green light, it would be built on existing practice fields east of the UCF Arena and be funded by donations and revenues from ticket sales, concessions, skybox rentals and advertisements.

Also, a study by MGT of America examining the feasibility of a medical school at UCF will indicate that there's a need for new medical schools in Florida to curtail the shortage of physicians, UCF officials say.

[cwetteland]

The only downside I see for UCF having an on-campus statium is the parking issue. True, there are an number of nearby parking garages built and planned that would be available on Saturdays; but can you really in a parking garage? Tailgating is a big part of the gameday experience in the current location.

Med School ... It's about time.

[GreenHills]

1ST PART OF A 2-PART SERIES

UCF leaders see stadium as key to big time

By David Damron and Alan Schmadtke

Sentinel Staff Writers

January 26, 2005

John Hitt can imagine the first home game at the football stadium he hopes to build at the University of Central Florida.

"Think about that band playing up outside," the UCF president said, "walking up a beautiful green mall, past the alumni center, into the plaza and into the stadium. Think about the tailgating . . . Most of us have visited stadiums around the country that are on university campuses, and game day is pretty darn exciting."

He's had the dream for years, but now it is close to reality.

UCF trustees are on a fast track to approve construction of a $40 million stadium with room for 45,000 to 50,000 spectators, a move that would end nearly three decades of Golden Knights football at downtown Orlando's Florida Citrus Bowl.

No longer content to play home games 17 miles away, Hitt and other university leaders see the football venue as the ticket to transforming the longtime commuter school into a college community.

At the same time, students and professors yearn to dispel the lingering image of UCF as a glorified community college, set on a remote campus in east Orange County.

Education experts agree a stadium could draw more alumni and politicians to campus, giving UCF a better chance to build tradition and impress potential donors. Moreover, UCF finally could offer something that many see as essential to modern university life, especially in the South: a Big Time Football Experience.

"Nothing hardly says college as much as a home football game," said former UCF football player Ron Johnson, who intercepted the first pass thrown against UCF at the Citrus Bowl. "That sense of belonging is going to be magnified beyond anything we've experienced at UCF before."

Some of the university's neighbors, already stressed by UCF's growth to 42,500 students, fear a stadium will further strain town-and-gown relations. Others worry UCF might build a sub-par facility. Still others, after watching UCF elbow its way up academically alongside older, more established universities, wonder whether UCF could be distracted from further academic strides.

"I think [people] know less about UCF than they should. And this is one more piece in a larger puzzle for them," said Eric Olson, a director with The Princeton Review, which rates the nation's best 357 schools -- a list that does not include UCF. "Each school has to walk this mile. It could be a very good thing."

Competing with the likes of University of Florida and Florida State University in the sports realm is "an uphill battle," Olson said. But building a stadium is also "building that sense of campus community that they have lacked."

Until recently, a stadium seemed out of reach. Just two years ago, a 50,000-seat concrete stadium was priced at $130 million. Closer looks at cheaper steel-frame stadium expansions at other football facilities convinced UCF officials that a whole venue could be built that same way for less than half the cost of concrete.

Tickets, concessions, donations and naming rights could help raise the money to build it, Hitt said.

The president and trustees have designated a site on the north end of campus off McCulloch Road, part of a complex that will include baseball fields, the arena, the field house, an alumni center, a convocation center and new campus housing.

For Hitt, building an on-campus stadium might rank second only to delivering a medical school to UCF, he said. Although a college of medicine may be many years off, Hitt envisions a campus swept up in football, perhaps by the 2006 season.

Last year, UCF averaged 19,952 fans for home games. Officials expect up to twice that many fans for games on campus, where 15,000 students live within walking distance.

That traditional college football experience bonds students and alumni and carves lasting memories, Hitt and other boosters say.

Consider, for example, Northern Illinois University in DeKalb, Ill., about an hour north of Chicago. Many of its students hail from in and around the city, and school leaders are always trying to come up with ways to keep students in DeKalb on weekends.

A football team that was the worst in the country in the early 1990s did nothing to stem that weekend flight. But when the team turned around, so did school spirit.

"One of the things we talk about a lot as school leaders is how big a role school spirit plays at the university," said NIU Trustee Barbara Giorgi Vella. "To me, some of that was missing, and the football team has helped us get that."

The common-bond memories that a football season can birth also can breed more future donors to the school, stadium boosters say.

"I think it's those people who are more likely to give. Those are your future supporters," said Rick Walsh, senior vice president for corporate relations at Darden Restaurants Inc. and a UCF trustee. "It's going to have a return on investment that will return far more than we put into it."

For most students, the appeal of an on-campus stadium can be subtle, said Seppy Basili, author of The Unofficial, Unbiased Guide to the 328 Most Interesting Colleges. A really good football program doesn't need one, he said.

"Nationally, it doesn't matter so much, but in Florida, football is a big deal," Basili said. "I'm not sure you're going to draw more kids from New Jersey with Big Football. But if [Hitt] wants his school to be the choice campus in Florida, he might feel like, without big-time football, he can't do that."

University of Florida student Jonathan Selbst hikes across campus to football games from his dorm. The 20-year-old business and marketing major says students at UCF are "missing out" on that game-day experience.

Selbst remembers his first game.

"It was just crazy to wake up in the morning and look out the window and see hundreds of cars and Gator fans," Selbst said. "It's very uplifting."

UCF student Robbie Ribbens looks forward to that game-day atmosphere, but the Burnett Honors College freshman likes what a stadium might do to add luster to his future engineering degree.

"It's almost like a trophy," Ribbens said. "It says, 'You've made it to the big time.' It'll add to the school's image."

It might also give alumni a campus that is easier to connect with. Today, a graduate can attend football games at the Citrus Bowl and never make it out to the campus. Even alumni who live close say the enclosed, concentric-circle design of the campus doesn't offer much of a reason to drive through and take a peek.

"I know a lot of people around here who live a mile away and have never seen [inside] the campus," Pete Bunce, a recent UCF graduate, said. "When people think of UCF, they think of a small commuter school. And that's just not what it is anymore."

UCF faculty mostly supports the stadium concept, economics professor Josiah Baker said. Although he fears officials will not build the facilities and parking to accommodate decades of growth, he does see it as a chance to highlight the school.

"It's a spotlight," Baker said. "It indicates we are a real university."

UCF anthropology professor Elayne Zorn said she has heard colleagues voice concerns on everything from wasting money on a losing football program to traffic and environmental issues a stadium might cause. But Zorn said most of them realize that a stadium could add "a certain amount of symbolic prestige" to the school.

"I just want to make sure our faculty, students and staff receive the same attention" as the athletic program, Zorn said. "We hope it's not going to be a distraction."

Politicians are split on what a new stadium could give UCF. State Sen. Walter "Skip" Campbell, D-Fort Lauderdale, a UF graduate, said UCF would get far more out of an on-campus stadium in terms of lobbying lawmakers and donors.

"This is becoming a college of choice in Florida, and people are just starting to recognize that," Campbell said of UCF.

Seeing classrooms and athletic facilities being built, either before or after a football game, would go far in getting that word out, he said.

"You just don't get that same perspective at the Citrus Bowl."

Winning is a key to the equation, Hitt acknowledged.

If the UCF Athletic Association's $700,000-a-year commitment to Coach George O'Leary doesn't show that the Knights are serious about football, an on-campus stadium might will send the message. That's because stadiums generally last a long time, and schools don't build them very often.

In the past decade, only one Division I-A school -- Southern Methodist University in Dallas -- constructed an on-campus football stadium from scratch.

SMU is hoping to regain the stature it once enjoyed as a power in the now-defunct Southwest Conference. After a two-season shutdown by the NCAA because of recruiting violations, the university found it difficult to attract fans to an aging Cotton Bowl stadium in south Dallas, a half-hour from campus.

Then a booster donated $20 million for a new 32,000-seat stadium. Built of concrete and brick, it was finished in 2000 with a final price tag of $43.3 million.

Although campus leaders contend that the stadium and the five or six home games there each year have enhanced SMU, the facility has not yet translated into victories or popularity. The games average fewer than 19,000 fans.

The school dropped its ban on alcohol on campus for home games, and a tailgate area known as "The Boulevard" has proved popular with students and young alums, athletic development director Chris Walker said.

Hitt plans to reverse the current Citrus Bowl policy and ban alcohol sales at a campus stadium.

Beginning this fall, there will be 119 universities playing major-college football. All but 23 play home games on campus.

UCF has joined Akron and Minnesota as schools actively seeking to shrink that number. The Golden Knights' coach, for one, thinks his program would benefit from playing games closer to its students.

"I'm not staying you get all of it, but you do get a lot of your emotion from your students," O'Leary said.

"Some of our fans have seen other places where UCF has played before. Those people, they know what it's like when you walk onto a campus on game day and see all the things going on. It's just fun."

Correspondent Ashley Knaus contributed to this report. David Damron can be reached at 407-420-5311 or [email protected]. Alan Schmadtke can be reached at [email protected].

[wolfdawg54]

I never knew there was a citrus bowl. I suppose it is possible though, because we do have too many college bowl games. I wonder how long it is until we have the Tidy Bowl...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well the Citrus Bowl has been around for a while. It is along the lines of the Orange, Gator, and Peach Bowls as far as importance. Although we do have too many .com bowls.

[OrlandoJoe]

I have seen many changes that have been wonderful for the students that attend the university over the last five years.

UCF has become a first choice institution for many students attending. The stadium is another piece to make it a better place for students and athletes.

Many people think UCF is only worried about athletics. Being the 10th largest university in the country they need to building classrooms, housing, athletic facilities, etc. The only thing getting press lately is the stadium but many other projects are being built or renovated to make the campus better for students and the community.

If you want to see a list of projects go to www.fp.ucf.edu.

On a side note...I love trees and the environment. Saying that...the university needs to grow and be able to accomodate the population growth in Florida. The UCF main campus was never meant to be a park. Many of us hate to see the trees go but also understand that growth must happen.

[GreenHills]

Joe,

I'm interested in the environment as well, and I support an on-campus stadium (as long as it is funded from ticket sales and private donations, which it well be). What drives me crazy is that the proposed site was already cleared for a softball stadium, and I didn't see anyone complaining about that. What the complaints are really about is traffic, property values and a general hostility towards almost any campus development from nearby residents who live in expensive gated communities. The main person leading the opposition is a woman who lives in an expensive neighborhood that is right next to what used to be called Knights Crossing (I don't know the current name, but it's the complex that was bought out by UCF and turned into dorms). I don't know if it has calmed down since it was turned into dorms and RA's were brought in, but Knights Crossing used to be pretty rowdy and there were constantly fire alarms going off and police breaking up keg parties. Unsurprisingly, the residents in the gated community were not pleased and many have fought any proposed on-campus expansion (with the exception being dorms that will gets students into on-campus housing and out of off-campus student housing). Opponents of the stadium are framing the issue as an environmental issue rather than a property value issue because far fewer people will be sympathetic to a property value argument.

[cwetteland]

On a side note...I love trees and the environment.  Saying that...the university needs to grow and be able to accomodate the population growth in Florida.  The UCF main campus was never meant to be a park.  Many of us hate to see the trees go but also understand that growth must happen.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't understand the people who move into neighborhoods next to a "growing" University and then complain about it. What did they expect? That the university would stop growing just because they moved there?

[OrlandoJoe]

The opponents to campus growth want more students living on-campus. I wonder if they built more beds on-campus...what would happen to the thousands of rooms right off campus that are already built.

I find it interesting the people who are mad about growth at UCF live in an expensive community gated that was built right on the little econ river. They push the environment but it was okay when they wanted to built a home right on the river that they so much want to protect.