Population loss/gain Southern City Roundup

[brewerw]

Las Vegas is one of like 3 cities in the west. Every city in the south is growing except the ones in Mississippi and Alabama.

[benjamin]

your looking at sheer numbers look at the precentages heckles and the osuthern cities are growing more. I'm not here to argue either but look at the percentages from your own source. And I am not here to defend Atlanta as a city but i think you are going a little overboard with the whole speaking for theentire nation thing. As much as atlanta might not be my favorite city, its obviously enjoyed by a good amount of people or the olympics wouldn't be there and people wouldn;t be moving there.

Western city growth percentage

Southern city growth percentage

5602 1 New York--Northern New Jersey--Long Island, NY--NJ--CT--PA CMSA 21,199,865 19,549,649 1,650,216 8.4%

4472 2 Los Angeles--Riverside--Orange County, CA CMSA 16,373,645 14,531,529 1,842,116 12.7%

1602 3 Chicago--Gary--Kenosha, IL--IN--WI CMSA 9,157,540 8,239,820 917,720 11.1%

8872 4 Washington--Baltimore, DC--MD--VA--WV CMSA 7,608,070 6,727,050 881,020 13.1%

7362 5 San Francisco--Oakland--San Jose, CA CMSA 7,039,362 6,253,311 786,051 12.6%

6162 6 Philadelphia--Wilmington--Atlantic City, PA--NJ--DE--MD CMSA 6,188,463 5,892,937 295,526 5.0%

1122 7 Boston--Worcester--Lawrence, MA--NH--ME--CT CMSA 5,819,100 5,455,403 363,697 6.7%

2162 8 Detroit--Ann Arbor--Flint, MI CMSA 5,456,428 5,187,171 269,257 5.2%

1922 9 Dallas--Fort Worth, TX CMSA 5,221,801 4,037,282 1,184,519 29.3%

3362 10 Houston--Galveston--Brazoria, TX CMSA 4,669,571 3,731,131 938,440 25.2%

0520 11 Atlanta, GA MSA 4,112,198 2,959,950 1,152,248 38.9%

4992 12 Miami--Fort Lauderdale, FL CMSA 3,876,380 3,192,582 683,798 21.4%

7602 13 Seattle--Tacoma--Bremerton, WA CMSA 3,554,760 2,970,328 584,432 19.7%

[memphismike]

The loss in Memphis is very deceiving. That is directly a result of people moving to North Miss, Eastern Ark and the Eastern and Norther suburbs of Memphis. Officials believe that in the near future, DeSoto County, Miss., which borders Memphis, will be the largest county in Mississippi. Memphis is finally becoming more of a region, spreading from East Ark, North Miss, West Tenn, and even into the Missouri bootheel.

There is no doubt the South is the fastest growing region in the USA.  Here is a list of incorporated places, over 250K, ranked by percentage population change since the 2000 census.  (I've made a few exceptions on pop as noted) As you can see, while some parts of the South are doing very well, a number of Southern cities have very serious problems.    Why is there such a difference? 

Population loss ranked by %Change 2000-2003

1. Raleigh, 33,846,  12%

2. Ft Worth, 44,023, 8.1%

3. Arlington, Tx, 22,038, 6.6%

4. San Antonio, 63,420, 5.5%

5. Jacksonville, 38,163, 5.2%

6. Charlotte, 26,824, 4.8%

7. Tampa, 14,184, 4.7%

8. Orlando, 8,433, 4.4%  (pop 200K)

9. Miami, 14,378, 4.0%

10. Virginia Beach, 14,210, 3.3%

11. Norfolk, 7,324, 3.1%  (pop 241K)

12. Houston, 56,057, 2.9%

13. Austin, 15,449, 2.4%

14. Greensboro, 5,063, 2.3%

15. Dallas, 19,729, 1.7%

16. Atlanta, 6,578, 1.6%

17. Nashville-Davidson, -770, -0.1%

18. Memphis, -4,122, -0.6%

19. Washington DC, -8,675, -1.5%

20. Richmond, -3,061, -1.5%  (pop 195K)

21. Birmingham, -6,170, -2.5%  (pop 237K)

22. Mobile, Al, -5,727, -2.9% (pop 193K)

23. Louisville, -7,445, -2.9%%

24. New Orleans, -15,642, -3.2%

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[paulblackgsx]

I really dont think that is acurate. Atlanta has not grown 6000 people in 5 years, thats just not right. Where would they even get these numbers considering there hasn't been a census since 2000?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You obviously haven't seen how hot the condo industry and redevelopment in the city in general has been. Compared to 15 years ago, some areas like Grant Park, Midtown/Piedmont Park don't even look the same there are so many new apartments and condos. Dense, street useful development too.

[benjamin]

You obviously haven't seen how hot the condo industry and redevelopment in the city in general has been.  Compared to 15 years ago, some areas like Grant Park, Midtown/Piedmont Park don't even look the same there are so many new apartments and condos.  Dense, street useful development too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You misunderstood me, I meant that that number is under what it should be. Although your right about the developement in midtown, the only thing that bothers me is that the condos they are building are all really expensive and I think they need to make less expensive ones. Agree?

[ATLBrain]

These numbers lie. Nasvhille is growing very rapidly in its suburbs. It is turning out to be a little atlanta(that is probably not good). There were also very little developments in Nashville. Finally the developeres have decide it would be smart to put residental zoning downtown. I would bet you by the next census Nasvhille is a fast growing city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree. I don't know why the CofC and others haven't bothered to update mid-census figures. They've done it for years. All during the 90s, the estimates were that Davidson had lost people. But when the official 2000 census was tallied, it had gained 60k. Now that the infrastructure is in place in southern Davidson, I don't see how that could be the case. Finally, the idiotic RE reporter at the Tennessean has uncovered the truth (I say idiotic based on past reports -- see link below).

There have been nearly 12,000 residential permits issued since 2000-2004 in Davidson alone (most of it in the Nashville limits). Over 40,000 have been built in the fast-growing Williamson-Davidson-Rutherford corridor in 4 years. Now that Davidson has opened up water and sewer in that area, the spigot is open. To be sure, the other counties are growing faster right now. But just taking a conservative ratio of 2 people per home (b/c most of these have been single family), this would indicate a rough estimate of 23,000 additional residents in Davidson alone (not counting deaths, replacement dwellings, etc.). This is contrary to the loss in population shown above.

Indeed, the Chamber has finally updated its population estimates on its site to show a 2004 population of Davidson to be 595K (over 600k by now). Not surprisingly, this is a continuation of the healthy annual growth of about 6k all during the 90s. I have heard credible estimates that Davidson will have between 630k and 650k by 2010. The southern area of the county is really booming now.

One more thing, lots of people here slam Nashville for being so spread out. True, it could do more to build up its inner areas, and it finally is. But also keep in mind that the city is built on very (very, very, very) rocky ground. Up until the 80s, there were very limited sewerage systems on which to build smaller lots. Also, the northern third of the county is nearly unbuildable. While it is some of the most beautiful forested area in the whole state, it will likely stay that way for a long time. IMO, that's a good thing.

http://tennessean.com/business/realestate/...ent_ID=63912808

[vandiver49]

These number are always subjective b/c the parameters that are being used are rarely ever defined. For example Northern Jersey is w/o question considered the suburban populous of NYC (I mean, its not like they're commuting to Newark) but what are they using when they estimating ATL population. The last time I checked ATL metro encompassed 14 different counties!!! Jacksonville by contrast is probably defined by just one county. They also considered Norfolk and Virginia Beach as two seperate populous (which is odd...does that mean Chesapeake is a suburb of Va Beach?) instead of grouping the entire region together as Hampton Roads! Its really quite nebulous.

[bobliocatt]

These numbers are for official "city limits" only.

[DallasTexan]

You guys shouldn't be worrying too much if your city is losing population... Some of the best cities in the entire world are either stagnant or declining in population

[BrandonTO416]

I think people focus way too much on growth stats and not enough on quality of growth.

Too many of you on here don't think about quality. Nashville's quality is so low on the totem pole the city is just tacky. If 250,000 people move into metropolitan Nashville from 2000-2010, how many are going to be in urban neighborhoods? Maybe 5,000 of that?

[BizGuy]

I think people focus way too much on growth stats and not enough on quality of growth.

Too many of you on here don't think about quality. Nashville's quality is so low on the totem pole the city is just tacky. If 250,000 people move into metropolitan Nashville from 2000-2010, how many are going to be in urban neighborhoods? Maybe 5,000 of that?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Duh, have you been anywhere else besides Nashville? Like maybe you haven't seen the vinyl houses being stapled together in every other city of a certain size and over. If you want to see tacky, just come on down here, and I'll take you around Gwinnett. Or you can go over to Raleigh and see how FUGLY the new sprawl is there.

[ericurbanite]

Duh, have you been anywhere else besides Nashville?  Like maybe you haven't seen the vinyl houses being stapled together in every other city of a certain size and over.  If you want to see tacky, just come on down here, and I'll take you around Gwinnett.  Or you can go over to Raleigh and see how FUGLY the new sprawl is there.

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Have you been to north raleigh, cary, apex, holly springs lately around raleigh?? There not vinyl houses being stapled together. Huge brick homes on golf courses everywhere. How about wakefield, brier creek development. Your way off about fugly.

[DallasTexan]

My sprawl is better than your sprawl!!!

[BizGuy]

Have you been to north raleigh, cary, apex, holly springs lately around raleigh??

[datone2c]

I'm not here to argue benjamin, believe what you want. Los Angeles is growing as much as Atlanta and Miami combined alone - two of the largest southeastern metros. Las Vegas is a tiny metro by comparison and is growing almost as fast as Atlanta.

Cities big and small are beating southeastern metros. The 4 big southern metros don't offset anything else, and again Atlanta's sprawl is a unique mess that totally detracts from the entire metro regardless how much it grows. Atlanta is well known for being the most sprawled major metropolitan area in the nation. A vast majority of people in the nation don't care for Atlanta in general. Atlanta is a city you either love or hate, and most people who love it will of course live there. Everyone else, well, you know the story. Atlantans are the ones who care about Atlanta & little else.

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man heckles u i couldnt put that better the only people that love atl is the ones that are from there and to be correct las vegas is the fastest growing city in the world so i say again atl isnt in the top at all and this is most recent it is lasvegas . phoenix,and charlotte and no im not from neither one im from nyand atl is really a very small city with alot of cities and counties around it that make it what it is to day ...u see atl isnt going to spread out anymore it doesnt have room to its established now it started along time ago but look at the cities i just mentioned and watch how they compare to atl in the future and they havent been established that long

[datone2c]

These number are always subjective b/c the parameters that are being used are rarely ever defined.  For example Northern Jersey is w/o question considered the suburban populous of NYC (I mean, its not like they're commuting to Newark) but what are they using when they estimating ATL population.  The last time I checked ATL metro encompassed 14 different counties!!!  Jacksonville by contrast is probably defined by just one county.  They also considered Norfolk and Virginia Beach as two seperate populous (which is odd...does that mean Chesapeake is a suburb of Va Beach?) instead of grouping the entire region together as Hampton Roads!  Its really quite nebulous.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thats ture about most metro cities they are composed of alot of other counties which atl is composed up of 29 counties now and thats crazy but take a place like charlotte that is not small at all and the fast pace its growing and the amount of people ine the city alone and charlotte stands alone with one county atl doesnt even compare .........

[Aintnoway88]

I think some people are for-getting that Atlanta metro is 20 plus counties but they are really small compared to other states-counties, and 10 of Atl core counties have a population of 3.4 mill out of 5.