Downtown Memphis

[BrandonTO416]

You want to talk about facts? The fact is over 60% of metro Memphis' growth occured in the one central county that really is Memphis: Shelby County.

What do the stats suggest about Davidson, rocket? If under 60,000 of the 240,000 people that moved into Nashville in the 90's have moved into Davidson, it suggests not even 1/3rd of the people moving to Nashville are moving to the city.

[BrandonTO416]

Furthermore I don't give a rats behind if Nashville has more wealth. That wealth is so concentrated in such a scant few hands and isn't doing much to help my job, my pocketbook, nor the city of Nashville. Especially with the Phil Valentine types running around everywhere.

At least in Memphis some of the wealth builders are active urbanites. Who do you think built Harbortown and is now rennovating uptown Memphis?

The only thing wealth has given Nashville is attitude, snotty little Vandy kids, Marsha Blackburn, and not much else.

[rocket9561]

Furthermore I don't give a rats behind if Nashville has more wealth. That wealth is so concentrated in such a scant few hands and isn't doing much to help my job, my pocketbook, nor the city of Nashville. Especially with the Phil Valentine types running around everywhere.

At least in Memphis some of the wealth builders are active urbanites. Who do you think built Harbortown and is now rennovating uptown Memphis?

The only thing wealth has given Nashville is attitude, snotty little Vandy kids, Marsha Blackburn, and not much else.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Viridian isn't cheap...neither is most of the other urban housing going up right now. I think you are being very narrow minded. It definitely helps the city in many ways.

[BrandonTO416]

I'm not being narrowminded. I think wealth is a great thing. And when you purchase a Viridian unit and move down from Hendersonville, give me a ring. I'll come and visit.

[rocket9561]

You want to talk about facts? The fact is over 60% of metro Memphis' growth occured in the one central county that really is Memphis: Shelby County.

What do the stats suggest about Davidson, rocket? If under 60,000 of the 240,000 people that moved into Nashville in the 90's have moved into Davidson, it suggests not even 1/3rd of the people moving to Nashville are moving to the city.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes but all of that growth into Shelby was to areas other than the city of Memphis. Nashville is consolidated. People moving into the suburban county ring here is the same as people moving into suburban Shelby county...I mean, look at the physical size of Shelby compared to Davidson! Shelby County is NOT Memphis and someone from Germantown would DIE if you said they lived in Memphis...believe me.

[rocket9561]

I'm not being narrowminded. I think wealth is a great thing. And when you purchase a Viridian unit and move down from Hendersonville, give me a ring. I'll come and visit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It won't be me, but wealthy Nashvillians and newcomers moving into the core. Besides, it would be stupid to live downtown but commute to Hendersonville.

[brewerw]

rocket is very right. Germantown, The "Wealth of Memphis" hates what their city is. You could say mabe their racist, i duno. They do not like to accpt the fact they are from memphis. They are in their small minded tea party, gosssip little pittiful world. People from belle meade, who are also small minded, love and contribute. Even the nasty Frist contribute some. The FEd EX guy is the Only wealth that really contribute to Memphis. Every thing you started with Heckles youve backed out of. You are wrong about Nasvhille and Memphis. I dunno why you disslilke Nasvhille so much. Go live with the rude people in New York.

[BrandonTO416]

No, I've not backed out of a single thing. I'm just not into picking fights. Nashvillians are as rude as any New Yorker could be, just for reference.

[it's just dave]

I find New Yorkers to be warm, helpful and friendly on the whole. My many trips there have shown me that. Even in areas far and away from my slick hotel, the people didn't seem rude or unattentive if I needed help with the subways or directions.

With that said, it seems our cities are described as amoebas. we are not single-celled organisms. We are places where diversity of structure and personality are desired, but often ignored in these discussions. To claim a city is of a certain bent, and ignore the grand scheme of differences among us is naive. Nashville is no different than anyway else. We have the rich, the poor, the A's and the B's...throw in a few C's and D's and we have a very interesting place to hang our hats.

[Claws]

I don't understand why you have a vendetta with Nashville, Heckles. Are the people there rude to you? Did you lose your job there? Because I think it's a beautiful city with, as Dave said, a very bright future. Memphis is also a great city that obviously has many great things in store for it. So let that be that, and let's end this bickering.

[BrandonTO416]

Want to know what my problem /w Nashville is? It could be so much more then it is in an urban sense, and there are too many people here with totally different philosophies on life compare to my point of view. That's where I'm coming from. Memphis is not a grand scale better, but on the other hand its rediculous to put Memphis down when its actually doing a better job rennovating its urban core and attracting downtown residents. Nothing makes me madder then listening to a holier-then-thou Nashvillian put Memphis down, and I'll always take up for Memphis first because of that.

Things Memphis has which Nashville does not:

*An inner city rail system, albeit slow and small, at least exists and is usable.

*Interconnected suburbs that interact with the city very well, suburbs that are more dense and have more urban-esque boulevards. Poplar, Germantown Parkway, and many other suburban Memphis corridors are far more attractive then any suburban corridor in Nashville. Germantown is like many elite suburbs - they want to be their own world, but Germantown at least acts more like a part of Memphis then Williamson County acts as a part of Nashville.

*A downtown population that is nearing 10,000, and a downtown regional population of 30,000 including Harbortown. Nashville has maybe 3,000 downtown residents now, and its just beginning what Memphis was doing in the 1980's. Memphis has a 20 year head start on Nashville on rebuilding the inner city, and no 30 or 50 story tower can change that here.

*Memphis is clearly growing more in the central county and central city. Downtown Memphis lies mere feet from the Arkansas border and the 3rd largest metro county, and 8 miles south of downtown Memphis lies DeSoto County. Neither drain the central city nearly as much as Nashville's suburban corridors, and its not nearly as segregated in terms of urban structure and urban vs suburban tax income.

There's plenty Memphis has which Nashville doesn't have, and Nashvillians never appreciate that. I appreciate the things Nashville has which Memphis does not, but that tends to be things I don't care as much for. The poverty differences between the cities are miniscule at best. Memphis has wealth from midtown all the way down the Poplar corridor to Germantown in the city and suburbs alike. Nashville has its Belle Meade, but it is a joke compared to the far more urban style of Peabody, Central Avenue areas in Memphis.

[brewerw]

First off , MOVE TO MEMPHIS. I dont hate memphis, its a great city. I am glad it's part of Tennessee. Im just saying that the downtown of Nashville is much more developed, and is building up faster than Memphis. This is what i mean by behind.

1957- Nasvhille L&C was built(409 ft.)

- First Large scale skyscraper in the south.

1965- Memphis 100 North Main(Up Building(430 ft.)

- Memphis's largest building to this day, MEmphis was ahead of Nasvhille for 5 years.

1970- William R. Snodgrass Tennessee Tower built(452 ft).

since then Nasvhille has added the Financial Center(490 ft.) and the Bell South(608 ft, not from spire) which are both larger buildings. Also in the 80's & 90's nasvhille added 5 new towers above (340ft.) Memphis only has five buildings above 340 ft.

Nasvhille has 8(really 7 the Marina wont come through)buildings proposed and one being built. Memphis has 3 buildins propsed none being built. Nasvhille has had two 50 stroy buidings proposed in the last 10 years. One didnt come through, The other probably will. Memphis has NEVER had a 50 stroy proposed.

Finally, Why do you all the sudden hate nashille. You used to lead a whole fourm thing on it. Why have you changed. I dont buy what you wrote. Tell the truth.

[rocket9561]

Tall buildings aren't everything. The Memphis core has been ahead of Nashville since the beginning in pretty much all ways except for height and more modern architecture.

However I think Nashville has a lot of qualites that Memphis doesn't. That's the reason its economy and population have been booming while Memphis has been in decline for a while. What about the Memphis school system? Nashville's isn't perfect but we do have an adequate and working Magnet program that produces some of the nation's top public schools. Even the middle class in Memphis shell out thousands of dollars for their kids to attend private and christian schools that are no better than the Shelby public schools. And suburbs that work well with the city? Memphis' suburbs fight over county/city issues constantly and under different leadership they often have competing agendas which slow the city down! Not to mention DeSoto which built its own arena to lure events from downtown Memphis....and what about West Memphis, where over 28% of the residents live in poverty?

Again, The city of Memphis isn't growing. More people may be moving to the core but they are moving out of the rest of Memphis. There is high violent crime, a pitiful education system, and lack of economic growth outside of the downtown core. As for the county, it isn't consolidated and the physical size is large compared to Davidson County. Most of the development taking place in Shelby county is occuring at the same distace (or further) from the Memphis core than Nashville places like Hendersonville, Brentwood, and Mt. Juliet.

Both of the cities have their good qualities but I think you are a bit misguided on your comparisons between Nashville and Memphis. Memphis has some great stuff going on in the core but the rest of the city is often ignored and it shows with the continuing population losses.

[BrandonTO416]

I've not changed a great deal. At least in the recent past... Ask anyone who has known me for years. I just see the good and the bad side of things equally.

There are plenty of good things going on in Nashville.

[rbhriuthbu1234]

I live in Memphis and I know about Tennessee, I looked at somthing on the internet one time according to the census Memphis will have a metro of 1.5 million in 2025 and Nashville will have 2.1 million! That proves that Nashville is doing much better than Memphis. Some parts of downtown Nashville is a little ghetoish though but so is Memphis. They have built some cool earthquake proof steel houses on the river In Downtown Memphis.

[it's just dave]

2.1 million...are we counting Huntsville now? Kidding, but I don't doubt the number projections. If we're lucky a decent amount of the new residents will share our philosophy that sprawl stinks and help us continue with building a bright and successful central city. That's where my hope lies.

In 2025 I hope to be an active 72-year-old living in the city and tripping up skateboarders with my cane. Oh happy day.

[BrandonTO416]

A 2 million metro means nothing if the central city hasn't changed a great deal by then. Hopefully that won't be the case.

[brewerw]

But Nashville's core is begining to grow fast. Have you guys thought about what Atl's metro will be like in 2025. It'll be like the whole south.

[BrandonTO416]

As crappy as Atlanta is, that's another reason not to like the south for me.

[brewerw]

If your saying the south is not like New York, Your right. NY, NY is on an island. It'd be like 8 million people living inside the downtown interstate look. The south will never be that way and im glad. The city smells, is always loud, you cant get anywhere over like two miles in an hour. There are so many more reasons not to live that was than to live that way. Its fun for awhile, then it gets old. If you wanna go get robbed every day be my guest.

And are you kidding. Have you glanced at the things happening dawntown. Every week theres something new.

[bobliocatt]

First off , MOVE TO MEMPHIS. I dont hate memphis, its a great city. I am glad it's part of Tennessee. Im just saying that the downtown of Nashville is much more developed, and is building up faster than Memphis. This is what i mean by behind.

1957- Nasvhille L&C was built(409 ft.)

    - First Large scale skyscraper in the south.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You mean the first large scale skyscraper in Tennessee? Right off my head, I can think of, at least three southern skyscrapers, built in the 1920's, that are all 410ft or taller. There's also a 600' tower, in Dallas, that was built a couple of years before the L&C.

[ATLBrain]

Yep. I don't know how that myth was started, but I've heard that one for a long time. Regarding the Mercantile Building in Dallas, I used to have a client in downtown Dallas. I would walk past that whole block every day, and it's just stunning to me that such a great and historic building could be in a shambles. It was the only downtown office building to be completed during WW2. It's also huge... a complete downtown block! Included are 2-3 20-25 story buildings that were built during the 50s and 60s. They aren't anything special, but they too sit empty.

Downtown Dallas has so much potential. It's a shame that there's not more reuse going on. Does anybody know what plans may exist for the two old Fidelity Union National Life building at Thanksgiving Square?

[brewerw]

I mean east of the mississippi. Sorry, i should of been more clear.

[DallasTexan]

Well, then you could say that the 27 story City Federal Building in Birmingham was the first "large scale" skyscraper of the South, as it is 350 feet and was completed in 1913... Or perhaps the Sterick Building in Memphis, a 365 foot tall art deco gem with 29 floors, completed in 1930...

We'll stick with first tall "modernist" office tower, how's that?

[memphismike]

No, believe me. I live in Germantown and anytime I'm asked where I live or where I'm from, I say Memphis. There wouldn't be a Germantown without Memphis. In fact, you could ask anyone in the Metro area where they're from, and they'd say Memphis. On the other hand, I have a relative living in Smyrna in Rutherford County. She absolutely refuses to say she lives in Nashville. I can't say I blame her!

Yes but all of that growth into Shelby was to areas other than the city of Memphis.  Nashville is consolidated. People moving into the suburban county ring here is the same as people moving into suburban Shelby county...I mean, look at the physical size of Shelby compared to Davidson!  Shelby County is NOT Memphis and someone from Germantown would DIE if you said they lived in Memphis...believe me.

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